[mtnbiker72]

First off, I'm not starting a chain lube war so if you use dino based stuff...good for you, I don't need your input.

I'm just starting a list of Eco Chain Lubes for bicycle chains

Bicycle specific chain lube:
Pedros Go
Pedros ChainJ
Dumonde Bio-Green
Ernesto Lube
Green Oil (UK)
Phil's Bio-Lube

Not bicycle specific:
G-Oil Bar and Chain (Animal fat based, I've been using it for a few months with very good success)

 

[billee]

Nipon ichiban super lube (wale oil)

 

[mtnbiker72]

Another to the list. Natural Lube 7A

 

[dan0]

what do you consider eco?
would a petroleum based product that was longer lasting , so in a years time you use less
than a "green" type lube qualify?

 

[dan0]

Nipon ichiban super lube (wale oil)

do you mean Whale?

 

[mtnbiker72]

what do you consider eco?
would a petroleum based product that was longer lasting , so in a years time you use less
than a "green" type lube qualify?

Who says a petroleum product lasts longer...what's the basis of that statement? There have been many studies that show certain plant and animal based oils and waxes actually out perform their petroleum counterparts in other applications (including a USFS study on chainsaws). Feel free to investigate, the information is out there.

For the record, I have been testing G-Oil Bar and Chain Green Oil this fall and winter which is animal based, meets ASTM's Ultimate Biodegradability, and it has performed as well as any petroleum or synthetic wet lube I've ever used in my 18 years of mountain biking.

Feel free to be skeptical, but the proof will be in the actual use:thumbsup:

 

[dan0]

Who says a petroleum product lasts longer...what's the basis of that statement? There have been many studies that show certain plant and animal based oils and waxes actually out perform their petroleum counterparts in other applications (including a USFS study on chainsaws). Feel free to investigate, the information is out there.

For the record, I have been testing G-Oil Bar and Chain Green Oil this fall and winter which is animal based, meets ASTM's Ultimate Biodegradability, and it has performed as well as any petroleum or synthetic wet lube I've ever used in my 18 years of mountain biking.

Feel free to be skeptical, but the proof will be in the actual use:thumbsup:

not a statement , it was a question
specifically , what is your criteria for "eco"? is it bio degradable? or can it be something that out performs and is therefore less harmful in the long run?
Eco can mean many things, not harmful to wildlife could be one, except for your animal based lube. What happens to the animal used if everyone started using it? the same thing thats happening to the whales. In my opinion ecologically sound cant really rely on animals

I've been using a petroleum based lube for about a year, 1- 7oz bottle , 4 bikes still have some left. thats pretty" eco" to me

 

[mtnbiker72]

not a statement , it was a question
specifically , what is your criteria for "eco"? is it bio degradable? or can it be something that out performs and is therefore less harmful in the long run?
Eco can mean many things, not harmful to wildlife could be one, except for your animal based lube. What happens to the animal used if everyone started using it? the same thing thats happening to the whales. In my opinion ecologically sound cant really rely on animals

I've been using a petroleum based lube for about a year, 1- 7oz bottle , 4 bikes still have some left. thats pretty" eco" to me

OK, legit questions

By "eco" I mean two things...1) Its made from a renewable resource and 2) It meets ASTM's "Ultimate Biodegradability" which means 100% biodegraded by microorganisms resulting in the production of carbon dioxide, water, mineral salts, and new microbial cellular constituents (biomass).

The animal based product I currently use is attained from the food industry as a by product. Yes, some people (PETA for instance) would come up with all the reasons this is bad for the environment. But the fact is, people eat meat...a lot of meat so if you can take this byproduct which is a renewable resource and use it to replace a toxic product, it's at least a step in the right direction.

One gallon of motor oil can pollute one MILLION gallons of fresh water. So 7oz of petroleum lube that washes off your chain could potentially pollute almost 55,000 gallons of water!!!

Not "eco" in my book:eekster:

 

[FBinNY]

DanO raises an interesting point. Is less of a bad thing better or worse of more of a not so bad thing. Also the ecological impact of any product would depend on how it's used, and disposed of or introduced into the environment

Yes a gallon of oil, would pollute an entire reservoir, but hopefully no ones dumping one directly into it, nor flushing it down sewers.

To be green, one should step back a bit and consider the entire picture. What about that with which you wash your chain. Would an oil that reduces the amount of washing required be good for the environment? What about the chain and cassette themselves. Tremendous amounts of energy are consumed, and chemicals used in their production, would making them last say 10% longer be better for the environent?, Or enough better to offset the impact of the chain lube and wash chemicals?

I'm not posting to challenge the notion of using eco friendly products vs. not, just trying to remind folks that to be truly green you need to look at the big picture.

In many cities in the USA we have mandates requiring oxigenated fuels to reduce ozone production, which seems like a good idea except that the the first attempt mandated by Congress resulted in a staggering amount of ground water pollution, and the current version makes cars less fuel efficient resulting in greater amounts of total tailpipe emissions per mile.

Green is good, no denying that, but smart green is better.

 

[mtnbiker72]

I agree...and just like you I am looking to improve on the existing product that is out there. I'm sure you didn't decide to develop a chain oil because you thought you'd be a millionaire from it. You felt there was a need for a better product so you came up with one...major kudos to you. My point is that through research and testing I firmly believe that renewable resource derived oils can meet or EXCEED mineral oil.You probably know this, but the original internal combustion 4 stroke and the original Diesel engines were fueled by bio-fuels and lubricated with plant derived oil. It was only because at the time mineral oil was so abundant and there was a lot of money and power behind it that we have been "addicted" to mineral oil for over a century now.

The existing Eco lubes out there are getting good reviews, in fact I've seen some reviews of Dumonde Tech G-10 that indicate that it exceeds the performance of their regular stuff. The product I am currently using so far has met or exceeded the performance of any wet lube I have used.

Like I said in my original post...if you want to use your dino stuff, great! I'm offering an alternative that I feel is better. And I'm not going into this blindly, I actually work in environmental health in water quality so I look at the results of pollution on a daily basis. We can and will need to change our habits, changing your chain lube to something non-polluting is just a small step.:thumbsup:

 

[davep]

I might add that the G-oil is CHEAP!!

 

[dan0]

OK, legit questions

By "eco" I mean two things...1) Its made from a renewable resource and 2) It meets ASTM's "Ultimate Biodegradability" which means 100% biodegraded by microorganisms resulting in the production of carbon dioxide, water, mineral salts, and new microbial cellular constituents (biomass).

The animal based product I currently use is attained from the food industry as a by product. Yes, some people (PETA for instance) would come up with all the reasons this is bad for the environment. But the fact is, people eat meat...a lot of meat so if you can take this byproduct which is a renewable resource and use it to replace a toxic product, it's at least a step in the right direction.

One gallon of motor oil can pollute one MILLION gallons of fresh water. So 7oz of petroleum lube that washes off your chain could potentially pollute almost 55,000 gallons of water!!!

Not "eco" in my book:eekster:

well ,I'll give you bio degradable, less poluting and sustainable ? not so fast
have you ever seen the giant Hog and chicken farms? talk about pollution, not to mention how much feed it takes to make a pound of animal flesh, and water, and fuel.
animals are probably the least efficient way to make protien.
and saying tallow is a by product? thats a stretch , if thats the case then gas is a by product of oil. Tallow is used in hundreds of items, its not like they would throw it away if you didnt use it.
Add to that list methane. which is now recognised as a major pollutant and a one of the major causes of so called global warming
animal fat is renewable but the cost in fuel, water , food and pollution makes it not really worth it. what happens if the animal based lubricants catch on? do you really think we can raise enough animals to be used as fuel, lubrication and food?
by the way, I do eat meat. My point is alot of what's labeled as ecologically green is not when you take into account all the details.

 

[mtnbiker72]

well ,I'll give you bio degradable, less poluting and sustainable ? not so fast
have you ever seen the giant Hog and chicken farms? talk about pollution, not to mention how much feed it takes to make a pound of animal flesh, and water, and fuel.
animals are probably the least efficient way to make protien.
and saying tallow is a by product? thats a stretch , if thats the case then gas is a by product of oil. Tallow is used in hundreds of items, its not like they would throw it away if you didnt use it.
Add to that list methane. which is now recognised as a major pollutant and a one of the major causes of so called global warming
animal fat is renewable but the cost in fuel, water , food and pollution makes it not really worth it. what happens if the animal based lubricants catch on? do you really think we can raise enough animals to be used as fuel, lubrication and food?
by the way, I do eat meat. My point is alot of what's labeled as ecologically green is not when you take into account all the details.

Yep, its not perfect and I have never claimed that it is. But have you ever been to an oil field or refinery? The fact is, it's made from a renewable resource (and bicyclists using eco oils are not going to cause food shortages, thanks for the sensationalism on that one though), yes Methane is a green house gas but it is a distant second to carbon monoxide resulting mainly from fossil fuels, and once again...ITS NON TOXIC AND 100% BIODEGRADABLE.

As I mentioned in my original post and to FBinNY...if you like your dino oil then great, I'm offering an alternative. And all the other lubes I have listed are plant based (plus I am working on a plant based formula myself) for the cyclist looking for an animal free product.

 

[dan0]

Yep, its not perfect and I have never claimed that it is. But have you ever been to an oil field or refinery? The fact is, it's made from a renewable resource (and bicyclists using eco oils are not going to cause food shortages, thanks for the sensationalism on that one though), yes Methane is a green house gas but it is a distant second to carbon monoxide resulting mainly from fossil fuels, and once again...ITS NON TOXIC AND 100% BIODEGRADABLE.

As I mentioned in my original post and to FBinNY...if you like your dino oil then great, I'm offering an alternative. And all the other lubes I have listed are plant based (plus I am working on a plant based formula myself) for the cyclist looking for an animal free product.

everything is bio degradable sooner or later given the right conditions
oil doesn't have to be manufactured its already in the ground , so one way of looking at it is the earth is already polluted with all the oil that will ever will be. raising animals for lubricants is creating new pollution where there was none.
which is more ecologically sound?
as long as refining and recycling are done properly there is very little pollution and a bicycle emits virtually none unless you go wading or dump your degreaser down the drain or into the yard

I am on board with vegetable oils though, really no downside except for performance and Im sure theyll conquer that soon

 

[mtnbiker72]

I am on board with vegetable oils though, really no downside except for performance and Im sure theyll conquer that soon

Well then we agree on something...every lube I listed is plant oil based (technically most are not vegetables) except the G-Oil. I am also researching the lubrication and oxidation properties of these oils and will be brewing up my own "Vegan" formula soon.

:thumbsup:

 

[savagemann]

Sweet, lets kill whales so we can lube our bike chains.
Sounds pretty eco to me.

 

[dan0]

Well then we agree on something...every lube I listed is plant oil based (technically most are not vegetables) except the G-Oil. I am also researching the lubrication and oxidation properties of these oils and will be brewing up my own "Vegan" formula soon.

:thumbsup:

I agree with your concept too, we could probably save alot more by doing less, do we really need to clean and lube a chain every ride? or drive a vehicle 3-5 miles to ride a bike?
lets face it , humans are parasites on this earth

 

[GrantB]

I've used the Chainj lube. Liked it alright in most conditions. Have you actually used the Ernesto lube? What is the Dumonde stuff made from?

I have this argument with myself about palm oil based dish soap versus traditional petro based stuff. Palm plantations do a lot of bad in some places, but at least it is renewable. Pick your poison.

 

[mtbxplorer]

Another green idea for lubes would be for bike shops to have a bulk supply of lube & you just re-fill your perfectly good container you already have, like other bulk stuff that is sold at co-ops and even at some auto supply places. You would be avoiding using more of that plastic made from petroleum, and avoiding throwing it out or using energy recycling it or transporting all those little containers.

I have not tried any of the listed lubes but would give it a shot once I use up all those little bottles kicking around.

 

[mtnbiker72]

Another green idea for lubes would be for bike shops to have a bulk supply of lube & you just re-fill your perfectly good container you already have, like other bulk stuff that is sold at co-ops and even at some auto supply places. You would be avoiding using more of that plastic made from petroleum, and avoiding throwing it out or using energy recycling it or transporting all those little containers.

I have not tried any of the listed lubes but would give it a shot once I use up all those little bottles kicking around.

I think that would be an excellent service to offer...BTW, Ernesto Lube offers refills but of course you have to send the bottle back.