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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am looking at upgrading my SS experience. I have been riding an old Cannondale M500 with cantilever brakes, the original Exage cranks, and a gusset chain tensioner. As much as I enjoy the bike, the drive train has been the achelies (sp) heel for it. So, I have been looking at low cost (relatively) dedicated single frames and bikes. I found some that I'm interested in.

One is the Zion 660 with an EBB

The other is the Redline Monocog with horizontal dropouts

I like both of these because they are steel, dedicated single speeds.

So, for the same $$, which system would you guys go for and why?
 

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I have a vote for horizontals. It is a personal preference. I have run horizontal fork tabs since I was a child on a BMX bike...it just seems to work well, and has less things that can go wrong IMO. Both mechanisms (EBB and Horizontal) are good...its just a preference thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
unit said:
I have a vote for horizontals. It is a personal preference. I have run horizontal fork tabs since I was a child on a BMX bike...it just seems to work well, and has less things that can go wrong IMO. Both mechanisms (EBB and Horizontal) are good...its just a preference thing.
Well, that is what I am looking for. Opinions based on experience and which people prefer. What are the Pros and Cons of each system? Some folks prefer EBB, and some horizontal dropouts. That's cool, but why?

Thanks for the reply.
 

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I prefer EBB because I like using disc brakes and setup is a little easier with EBB (of course on some types of sliding dropout this can be easy too).

As Nonracerrichie noted, the BB position changes with EBB, therefore you might need to mess with your seat position (not a deal breaker for me)
 

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Disc brakes? EBB or sliders. Fixing a rear flat tire with horizontals and a disc is a PITA.

V-brakes? Horizontals. No moving parts, easy chain tension, no seat height weirdness.
 

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There's the answer

crisillo said:
I prefer EBB because I like using disc brakes ...
I run an EBB frame and I love it; it is now 5 years old and nary a slip or creak.

I chose EBB because I run disc brakes. With disc brakes, ideally one wants the axle-to-caliper distance to remain constant. Slider-type dropouts and EBBs make this a reality. Plus I like the ability to flip my rear wheel QR and drop my wheel straight out in under a second and a half. Vertical dropouts make it so. Reinstalling the rear wheel is nearly as quick and easy.

Horizontal dropouts with disc brakes is a class B fit, IMO. But I think horizontals are okay with rim brakes. Old school + old school = sense. But I am not going back to rim brakes anytime soon, so I'm pretty entrenched in the EBB or slider camp.

The longer your legs, the less you'll notice the relatively insignificant repositioning of the BB eccentric. I've never noticed it after changing gears, but then I am tall.

Aside: If I were having a custom gearie frame built, I'd order it with an EBB for 2 reasons: first, I could run it SS if I ever chose to do so; second, I could adjust my bottom bracket height if I ever chose to employ longer/shorter cranks.

--Sparty

P.S. I have no interest in getting a new gearie frame! ;)
 

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I like Horizontals. I also run a disc brake on rear, but don't really find it all that much of a hassle to loosen a couple caliper bolts when changing a flat. I ride with a couple guys with EBBs and it seems like they need to do a lot more maintenance to them than I like (to keep them from being noisy).

I figure, Horizontals work for me, they NEVER make noise no matter how badly I abuse them, they are lighter (which I don't care about at all...but some do), and I tend to go with what annoys me least....extra minute to fix a flat is a lot less than an entire ride with creaks and groans...note, most rides will have neither a noisy EBB, or a flat to repair, but based on my experience....I have heard a lot more noise from my friends bikes than I have had flats....
 

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Depends on the frame/brake tab design and location. I have no problem removing the wheel on my disc brake equipped single speed with horizontal dropouts. Some can be a pain but many are not. I prefer horizontal dropouts for their simplicity and ease of adjustment. If, for some reason, you need to retention the chain on the trail you can do it with no tools with horizontal dropouts and quick release. Even if you run nuts all you need is a small wrench. An EBB is more difficult to adjust under those conditions. I don't like messing with my BB once it's set up. Chain stretch is easier to deal with on horizontal dropouts, IMHO.
 

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I think both EBB and sliding dropouts are effective. I personally have EBB on my ByStickel and haven't heard a peep out of it in over seven months. Simple to adjust tension, and I like that I can adjust my BB height to a degree. I typically run mine in an upper position and have far fewer pedal strikes.

I guess it can boil down to which makes more of a difference to you...bottom bracket position or chainstay length.
 

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Go with the solution that has the least bits to go wrong!

With V-brakes trackends/horizontal dropouts are simple, effective, and lighter.

With a disk it gets a bit more complicated. I don't like EBBs since my tandem days, but I think that for my next bike I'll go with them.

I have 2 bikes with different types of sliding dropouts, On-one and Voodoo.

The On-one mounts the disk to the frame, so if you make a mistake in aligning your wheel then the disk will be cocked in the caliper and you'll get poor braking and uneven wear. Because of this, I run v-brakes on the back of my On-one, but I may try an Avid disk because you can wiggle the caliper about a bit.

The Voodoo mounts the disk on the sliding dropout, and I thought this would be foolproof. In a recent race I heard 2 pinging noises from the rear that I thought were spokes. I found different on the way down the next hill when I hit the back brake. Somehow I'd lost the 2 bolts holding the dropout to the frame on the left hand side. Now this is entirely my fault because I obviously failed to do them up tight enough after taking up some slack in the chain. I can put that down to fatigue and being brain dead at that point of the race.

The problems I have raised with sliding dropouts are no problem if you never have to do adjustments when you're tired, wet or in the dark, because it simply takes a wee bit more care. Easy to do in a warm workshop. Open to error in more hostile circumstances.

Thus for a disk, pick an EBB.

Edit add on: Forgot to mention the ENO hub see this thread. Although you have less flexibility with your rear gearing using a freewheel, it's always possible to use different sizes of chainring. In some ways this may be better because the smaller the chainring the less chance of damage.
 

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What about sliders with Vertical drops? Look at the Kona Unit or Explosif (if you ever want to run gears) I believe the 07 sliders take care of potential slippage and can be retrofitted to 06 frames (which can be found for very cheap online)

I myself run horizontals with discs- gives me a great excuse as to why I am so slow... but the reality (for me) is that it is not a big deal to repair flats
 

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I'm a horizontal drop out fan due to their easy low tech adjustment for chain tension. I run a disk brake up front and a V-brake in back. Most of your braking is on the front wheel so the disk gets used where it makes the most difference. You still need to tweak the V-brakes when you change freewheel sizes, but changing flats is easier. The EBB seems like a lot of weight compared to horizontals. If rear disks were essential, I'd go to a sliding style drop out over an EBB.
 

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I think it's kind of ironic that while we're discussing the merits and drawbacks of the EBB, another thread here is asking where to get back-up parts for their EBB should they have a mechanical problem with it. I'm not suggesting that they're prone to problems, but it does raise a question: how will you do a repair should your system fail while in the boonies?

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=265805
 

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FODM said:
I think it's kind of ironic that while we're discussing the merits and drawbacks of the EBB, another thread here is asking where to get back-up parts for their EBB should they have a mechanical problem with it. I'm not suggesting that they're prone to problems, but it does raise a question: how will you do a repair should your system fail while in the boonies?

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=265805
That's why I use a set bolt EBB ;) not all EBBs are the same... check the FAQ for the details
 

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I like to run a flip flop wheel (fixed/free), which means I can't run discs (not that I would want to anyway), which means I like horizontal dropouts better. It seems much easier just to loosen a QR and slide my wheel around than mess around with a set screw or pinch bolt.
 

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My bike has an EBB. Occasionally it'll creak but that has been easily solved by coating the shell with Never Seize. Personally I like the ability to move the crank position. I run mine at the lowest setting where I see other running theirs high. The EBB is heavy but seems to give you more options the horizontal drops.

Horizontal drops never really appealed to me. The whole rear disc alignment seemed to be a drag. However, the sliding drops are something I will consider when looking at a new SS frame.

I expect ou'll be happy with whichever you choose. Good Luck.
 

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Frozenspokes said:
I am looking at upgrading my SS experience. I have been riding an old Cannondale M500 with cantilever brakes, the original Exage cranks, and a gusset chain tensioner. As much as I enjoy the bike, the drive train has been the achelies (sp) heel for it. So, I have been looking at low cost (relatively) dedicated single frames and bikes. I found some that I'm interested in.

One is the Zion 660 with an EBB

The other is the Redline Monocog with horizontal dropouts

I like both of these because they are steel, dedicated single speeds.

So, for the same $$, which system would you guys go for and why?
I've had a Zion 853 EBB for about a year and a half. After about a year it creaked. It took about 20 minutes to do everything involve in greasing the EBB. I've spent that long just d!cking around trying to get the wheel to line up right with the disc caliper on my KM with straight in the track fork ends. Granted, I am quicker now, but that onetime alone was as much time as I ever spent messing with the EBB on the Zion.

BTW, the zion is for sale. EBB is great, but it's still a 26'er.
 

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If you're running V brakes, get horizontal drops or fork ends.

If you're running disc brakes, and you're the set-and-forget type that rarely changes gearing and you hardly ever get flats --or if you happen to be a serious weight weenie -- then get horizontals. Removing and inserting the rear wheel can be a bit of a pain, but if you rarely have to do it then it's not a big deal. Some combinations of frame+caliper+rotor+axle position will allow you to just slide the wheel past the caliper. Some combinations will still let the axle through if you line the notch in the rotor up with the edge of the caliper. And some will require you to loosen the caliper bolts, thus having to reposition it after the wheel goes back in: in my extensive Surly experience, when you're doing this in the field, the caliper never ends up in quite exactly the same position -- and/or the wheel never ends up aligned quite exactly the way it was before -- forcing you to fuss around with adjustments further or put up with rotor rub for the rest of the ride. When you're in the comfort of your own shop this is not a big deal, but I've had to do this in the field numerous times, including twice along the side of a road, at night, in cold pouring rain. Afterwards I was more Surly than my Karate Monkey. My stance has softened a bit since I've learned the rotor-notch trick (coupled with some careful dropout filing), but all else being equal I'd rather this bike had an EBB on it.

If none of the above applies to you, go with sliding vertical dropouts or EBB. Biggest downside of either method is weight: most eccentrics weigh a couple hundred grams (though they can be machined lighter) and sliding vertical dropouts aren't much lighter than EBBs. I lean a bit towards EBB myself, since sliders require you to tighten 4 bolts and observe proper wheel alignment within the rear triangle, although it's probably not that big of a deal. In any event, my set-screw EBB has been 100% trouble free and has never creaked or needed any maintenance whatsoever. I don't find the change in saddle position relative to the BB to be a big deal, since the range of adjustment is only about 1/2" horizontally or vertically, and a change in either plane can easily be corrected with a quick seatpost adjustment. Chain growth is mostly a non-issue: with good chainline and cogs, my drivetrain is pretty forgiving. I adjust the EBB once each time I put on a new chain, once again when the chain has broken in after 50-100 miles, and that's it.
 
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