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29er Hater
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
... by a bunch of careless, inconsiderate trail users. Berms are being blown out, corners cut, jumps cased and excessive cheater lines around the simplest stuff.

If you blow a berm or case a gap, stop and fix it! If you can't ride the trail the way it's meant to be ridden, either stay off it or sack up and learn to ride it the way it is, don't ruin it for others.

And I'm sick and tired of picking up [email protected]# pedal reflectors! :banghead:
 

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Hecklermark said:
... by a bunch of careless, inconsiderate trail users. Berms are being blown out, corners cut, jumps cased and excessive cheater lines around the simplest stuff.

If you blow a berm or case a gap, stop and fix it! If you can't ride the trail the way it's meant to be ridden, either stay off it or sack up and learn to ride it the way it is, don't ruin it for others.

And I'm sick and tired of picking up [email protected]# pedal reflectors! :banghead:
It's funny- saturday I was out there on the trail I saw you and the boys working on a few weeks ago, and saw two reflector on the trail. I actually intentionally left them, figuring somebody had put them there as a joke!

As to the cheater lines, the new ones you made aren't obvious enough for the crowd I was with, so most just *****ed about how you'd blocked the go-arounds. When I pointed out the new (much longer) bypasses, some said "well, they should be more obvious".

miles

miles
 

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Negative Rep Points!!!!
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The Selfish and Unskilled Masses

I feel your pain, Von Hucklemeister. It's beyond frustrating after putting countless hours in on trail work/building, only to return the following weekend to see that some selfish, skill-less, fock has either undid all of your work, or.... is using a trail waaaay beyond their limited skill set to learn how to use their brakes.

Remember what we went through this last summer on the BLT? This is the same schit.

Put yourself in their puny, little skulls for a moment. You're blasting down that section of trail that a friend of a friend, of a friend, told you about. You come to a section that you aren't quite ready to ride..but you know that there is a weenie line around it..so no big deal.

But...then....suddenly you enter that section....and horror of horrors, some duchebag has placed a barrier of sticks and rocks across your beloved weenie line. "How dare they, you think?" "What Dicks!"

So, rather than take the time to learn that terror inducing, little 1 foot drop, or actually get off and walk... it's simply easier to just remove the offensive blockoff and continue getting your "flow" back on.

It's beyond comprehension, amigo. Unfortunately, I don't see a solution.
 

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dft said:
i know octo has been riding out there, was that you octo??
that blows though, you guys have put alot of work into it.
(laughing) come on Tom not me.......I was jumping the stuff...Alkie took me down a nice line with some nice drops

I put out some barb wire on our trail......holes are going in next week too....and a sign up front
 

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SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:
(laughing) come on Tom not me.......I was jumping the stuff...Alkie took me down a nice line with some nice drops

I put out some barb wire on our trail......holes are going in next week too....and a sign up front
What are you...an astronaut....no wonder chicks don't dig you....there is no way you can get gnarly scars with that spacesuit on.
 

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29er Hater
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
miles said:
As to the cheater lines, the new ones you made aren't obvious enough for the crowd I was with, so most just *****ed about how you'd blocked the go-arounds. When I pointed out the new (much longer) bypasses, some said "well, they should be more obvious".

miles

miles
Thanks for the feedback, Miles! That's info I can use. That new go around is getting more obvious and ridden on.
 

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I'd hate...

for this to be my first post on here, but this is something I feel strongly about. Unfortunately I seriously doubt that the very "focks" you are complaining about would even give this thread a glance. If they do, they are just looking for recognition.
The only way to stop them is to stand guard at a couple of choice spots until you catch them. Even then, what will / can you do?
People like those you speak of are the MAIN reason for trail closures and they really don't care because they had their fun and they'll find more to screw up. When there is no more they'll ignore the closures and / or find something else in life to screw up. That's their perceived reason for existence.

John
 

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Education

inSANe DIEGO said:
for this to be my first post on here, but this is something I feel strongly about. Unfortunately I seriously doubt that the very "focks" you are complaining about would even give this thread a glance. If they do, they are just looking for recognition.
The only way to stop them is to stand guard at a couple of choice spots until you catch them. Even then, what will / can you do?
People like those you speak of are the MAIN reason for trail closures and they really don't care because they had their fun and they'll find more to screw up. When there is no more they'll ignore the closures and / or find something else in life to screw up. That's their perceived reason for existence.

John
I have to repectfully disagree with you John. I have learned that to be a trail advocate, you have two main battles to fight. The first one is against those who would have you banished from trails, and the other is against those whose behavior justifies the attitude of the first group. What I have learned is that the most effective weapon in both cases is education. Of course there are those boneheads who are so selfish that education will not work with them, but you would be surprised how much can be accomplished by simply enlightening those who are ingnorant about trail issues. Confrontation just provokes a FU attitude. When I first started mountian biking, back when spokes were made of wood, I had no idea that skidding was bad for a trail, or even that trails could be damaged. Then I joined a bike club and started learing that there is some responsibility that comes with riding in So Cal.
If you put up a sign and you want it to change someones behavior, make it educational. Put up a sign announcing trail maintenance (with free beer of course) and once they spend some time fixing trail damage they may change their riding habits.
Just my humble old Chopper opinion.
 

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Chopper
Actually, I feel you and I totally agree. I should have been more specific. I was actually commenting about those that the education would not get to. I realize that there are those that are simply unimformed. I just couldn't hold back on commenting about those that I've run into A LOT over the years. I would say that the majority of people I've tried to explain things to while on the trails took the attitude of "If I wanted to know how to take care of it, I would have asked. So leave me alone and don't tell me how to ride." Back around 2001 I stumbled across SDMBA and thought about joining and volunteering for patrol, but I found myself already getting too emotionally involved when riding and figured it was best not to volunteer- in order to not give SDMBA a bad name.

Things like skidding I can understand. Hell, you don't have to try to skid sometimes. I do think that common sense things like cutting corners and trail blazing shouldn't need to be taught. Don't get me started on the trash. Like I said, common sense.
If you're having success at educating those that really need it, great. I seriously congratulate you. I must be catching all of the flunkies. Some of them have even tried to "make something of it".

I've seen many examples of this same attitude in other places where "educational" signs were just kicked over and even used for firewood (in a fire hazard zone mind you). Those are who I was addressing.

I find myself in a hard spot because as I get more "eco-aware" I just get increasingly frustrated at closures because of the supposed small percentage, but I can't blame the closure because the damage is still being done no matter how many riders there are that are good.

I just wish I could share some of your success rate, because mine has been so very miniscule.

John
P.s. Beautiful day out, isn't it? Too bad it'll be dark by the time I get out of work. I don't mean to sound so dismal. For that I apologize. For what it's worth, I will still inform and attempt to educate. This is in no way an indication of quitting.
Let's ride!!!!
 

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29er Hater
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Chopper said:
I have to repectfully disagree with you John. I have learned that to be a trail advocate, you have two main battles to fight. The first one is against those who would have you banished from trails, and the other is against those whose behavior justifies the attitude of the first group. What I have learned is that the most effective weapon in both cases is education. Of course there are those boneheads who are so selfish that education will not work with them, but you would be surprised how much can be accomplished by simply enlightening those who are ignorant about trail issues. Confrontation just provokes a FU attitude. When I first started mountian biking, back when spokes were made of wood, I had no idea that skidding was bad for a trail, or even that trails could be damaged. Then I joined a bike club and started learing that there is some responsibility that comes with riding in So Cal.
If you put up a sign and you want it to change someones behavior, make it educational. Put up a sign announcing trail maintenance (with free beer of course) and once they spend some time fixing trail damage they may change their riding habits.
Just my humble old Chopper opinion.
Awesome response, Chopper.

[email protected]
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
inSANe DIEGO said:
Chopper
Back around 2001 I stumbled across SDMBA and thought about joining and volunteering for patrol, but I found myself already getting too emotionally involved when riding and figured it was best not to volunteer- in order to not give SDMBA a bad name.
That's how I felt too, but I realized how much I loved mtn biking that if I didn't get involved, I was just as responsible for trails being ruined or taken away because I didn't do anything to stop it.

Even if you don't volunteer for a bike patrol or trail work, your membership dollars help support trail advocacy, your signature on a petition could be the one to decide that a trail stays open to bikes.

Don't sit on the sidelines and let non mtn bikers make decisions for you, get involved!

[email protected]
 

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Hecklermark said:
Awesome response, Chopper.

[email protected]
Thank you! And I agree with you about joining a club even if you can't volunteer. When I was in a leadership position with SHARE, some suggested that members should have to committ to a certain amount of volunteer time in order to remain a member. My feeling was that supporting the club financially was a great way for people to promote reponsponsible mountain biking when they can't volunteer. Some people barely have enough time to ride, much less spend their weekends doing trail work.
 

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Hey now ;) , I never said anything about not JOINING nor feeling I had to be a member in order to contribute, just not volunteering for patrol because I felt I wouldn't be a good representative. I have many interests that each have their own clubs, advocacy groups, etc. To have memberships in all of them would run me bankrupt. I DO however, make contributions to each when I can and occasionally participate in signing petitions, demostrations, roadside clean-ups, trail work, community and city meetings, and fund raisers. In fact, I almost gave myself a patellar tendinitis relapse during the SDBC toy ride in December when I rode much harder and 2.5 times farther than I was supposed to- to deliver toys for a good cause. I paid with two more weeks off the bike. One doesn't need a membership to participate! :thumbsup:

It is a great point to make though that just being a member can help. (For those that feel they have no time to actively participate.)

I've been wanting to get to a SDMBA meeting since last summer. Both work and school had kept me plenty busy to even try though. Now that the end of the year rush is over, I can plan on seeing you soon.

BTW... Why does the SDMBA site say the next meeting is July 18 and the latest news on the home page is for Goodan Ranch dated 03/16/05? Has the site not been updated in that long?

John
 

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Chopper said:
Thank you! And I agree with you about joining a club even if you can't volunteer. When I was in a leadership position with SHARE, some suggested that members should have to committ to a certain amount of volunteer time in order to remain a member. My feeling was that supporting the club financially was a great way for people to promote reponsponsible mountain biking when they can't volunteer. Some people barely have enough time to ride, much less spend their weekends doing trail work.
Chopper, these are good points as well. Some people can't make evening meetings. Some people work on weekends or have family obligations. None of these circumstances mean that they don't care about the trails or shouldn't be counted as part of the community. And beyond the financial support, just having a list of interested, sympathetic persons in the community is valuable to a club
 

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you want it to stop? buy some land, build some trails and then you can threaten anyone you want. cracks me up all the E-toughguy remarks about dealin out punishment for how someone rides a PUBLIC trail. I think it sucks to have any work i've done destroyed by someone who doesn't see the lay of the land the same as me, but it doesn't make me entitled, nor does it make me bitter. i volunteer my time and accept that even someone who will never attend a trail day still has the same rights as me ......on PUBLIC land.
Education is the only positive solution and still, some people just won't care.
 

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Chopper said:
Thank you! And I agree with you about joining a club even if you can't volunteer. When I was in a leadership position with SHARE, some suggested that members should have to committ to a certain amount of volunteer time in order to remain a member. My feeling was that supporting the club financially was a great way for people to promote reponsponsible mountain biking when they can't volunteer. Some people barely have enough time to ride, much less spend their weekends doing trail work.
Chopper while I agree completely with everything that you are saying, I do believe that the point is somewhat being missed here. Your philosophy makes total sense and applies when you're dealing with legal multi-user trails that are not "qustionable". The trail that Hecklermark is talking about is a trail that falls into the "questionable" category.

Our group and several other individuals have put in many hours of labor into this trail and I have recently over the holidays donated my back shoveling dirt to make a berm that has been probably blown out by some yahooo...thats ok though because I'll make the repairs. The problem with this "questionable" trail is that the word has gotten out that "Hey, this place is becoming pretty awesome again". This is where IMO the the problem resides... Do you press and try to get this trail on the map as a legitimate and/or legal trail? How do you sanction trail work with SDMBA/IMBA on the above mentioned trail?...you can't.

I can assure you that if we did press for legitimatizing this trail, that some enviromentalist crackpot would come up with a dozen reasons why It cannot happen...archeological site, sensitive habitat, etc, etc, etc, I'm sure we've heard em' all, right? Come the following year, in that same spot that was deemed habitat by our tree loving friends you've got scrapers leveling the hilltops and preparing to throw up some 800K trackhomes.

IMO it would prolly be best if this trail stayed below radar and we wouldn't see another picture of it on these boards. We'll continue doing what we've been doing out there. I would also be in total favor of gathering up the folks who enjoy and use that trail the most and getting some serious work done. It's too hard getting any real work done with only several people. This trail will prolly see increased use so any work done has to have a longterm outlook as far as construction is concerned.

And yes, there are some folks that can be educated on how to control their bikes as they careen down a trail, repair a berm they blew out, or a jump they cased. Then there are those that I sincerely believe cannot be helped.

Just some thoughts,

D
 

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offtheedge said:
you want it to stop? buy some land, build some trails and then you can threaten anyone you want. cracks me up all the E-toughguy remarks about dealin out punishment for how someone rides a PUBLIC trail. I think it sucks to have any work i've done destroyed by someone who doesn't see the lay of the land the same as me, but it doesn't make me entitled, nor does it make me bitter. i volunteer my time and accept that even someone who will never attend a trail day still has the same rights as me ......on PUBLIC land.
Education is the only positive solution and still, some people just won't care.
Very well put. I can't believe that people are still surprised the world is full of A-holes and dumbasses.

Also, thinking you have the right to say what goes on a public trail is a little elitist. I know that it sucks seeing hard work and good intentions get ruined by some jack-hole, but dude--it's a public trail. Or even if it's an illegal/questionable trail you built on private land, you still can't complain.

This stupid "locals only" attitude is like surfers wanting to kick someone's ass who is riding their spot--lame. Besides, thanks to things like Google Earth, it's hard to keep trails a secret to anyone who knows the general area they are in. Like mentioned above, if you want to play trail moderator, then build a trail on land you own.

I'm not trying to be a dick, I see your point and get where you're coming from, but to get all worked up and aggravated about it isn't going to accomplish anything.
 
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