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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My E13 DRS is great except for one thing, if I ride over something, (logs, rocks), & it hits the roller bracket, it pushes the bracket up into the edge of the tire knobs & rubs. I'd rather have it move than be rigid and damage something. I realize that there are alot of clearence issues when a single product is applied to so many different bikes, but on my Bullit, & pics I've seen of the SC VP Free, the roller plate has to be ran so low that it makes it vulnerable to obstacles that slide across the btm edge of the bashgaurd & hit it.
Any solutions to this "phenomenon"?? Somebody wake Zedro up & make me feel better.
Moderators don't need no steeekeeng sleeep....do they?
 

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man w/ one hand said:
My E13 DRS is great except for one thing, if I ride over something, (logs, rocks), & it hits the roller bracket, it pushes the bracket up into the edge of the tire knobs & rubs. I'd rather have it move than be rigid and damage something. I realize that there are alot of clearence issues when a single product is applied to so many different bikes, but on my Bullit, & pics I've seen of the SC VP Free, the roller plate has to be ran so low that it makes it vulnerable to obstacles that slide across the btm edge of the bashgaurd & hit it.
Any solutions to this "phenomenon"?? Somebody wake Zedro up & make me feel better.
Moderators don't need no steeekeeng sleeep....do they?
Space the guide out with a BB spacer, and it won't rub the tire anymore.

Mine doesn't move unless I whack it really hard. I'd suggest first making sure your BB cup is torqued down really tight, and perhaps making sure that your BB shell is faced. If the BB shell is uneven or has a lot of paint on it, it could be causing the guide to slide easier.

I'm not sure why you have to run the roller so low? The Bullit has an elevated chainstay. Shouldn't you, in theory, be able to actually run the roller higher than you're supposed to? I'm not saying do it, I'm just saying that you should be able to tuck the roller pretty far out of harm's way.

If you don't have ISCG mounts, there's really no other way to run any guide...
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Tire clearence is main factor in position of guide.

binary visions said:
Space the guide out with a BB spacer, and it won't rub the tire anymore.

Mine doesn't move unless I whack it really hard. I'd suggest first making sure your BB cup is torqued down really tight, and perhaps making sure that your BB shell is faced. If the BB shell is uneven or has a lot of paint on it, it could be causing the guide to slide easier.

I'm not sure why you have to run the roller so low? The Bullit has an elevated chainstay. Shouldn't you, in theory, be able to actually run the roller higher than you're supposed to? I'm not saying do it, I'm just saying that you should be able to tuck the roller pretty far out of harm's way.

If you don't have ISCG mounts, there's really no other way to run any guide...
2.5 Kenda Kinetics dh casing, BB is GigaPipe w/spacer. I removed the BB spacer & put the guide plate on per E13 instr. If I put the spacer in there along w/the guide plate it could cause chainline issues/shiftin' problems. It shifts great now & I would rather deal w/a moveable guide than compromise the smooth shifting. BB is torqued correct.
 

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man w/ one hand said:
2.5 Kenda Kinetics dh casing, BB is GigaPipe w/spacer. I removed the BB spacer & put the guide plate on per E13 instr. If I put the spacer in there along w/the guide plate it could cause chainline issues/shiftin' problems. It shifts great now & I would rather deal w/a moveable guide than compromise the smooth shifting. BB is torqued correct.
Hm.. Well, I have a small BB spacer on my Imperial and it shifts fine, so if the rubbing really starts to bother you, you could give it a try. Mine rubbed with a 2.5" Michelin, too.

I also have my roller tucked up a little higher than Evil recommends. They say the bottom of the roller should be in line with the bottom of the bashguard, I have mine tucked up almost touching the chainstay, probably .25-.5" above the bottom of the bashguard. I've had no issues with it set up like that, and it keeps the roller mostly out of the way.

Of course, I'm not that great at getting up and over tall objects so I still whack it from time to time, and if I hit it hard, it moves. But as you said, I'd rather have the relatively inexpensive boomerang move and possibly bend/break than shear off the ISCG tabs on an expensive frame.

Still not sure why the roller has to be run low on a Bullit? The VPP-Free, while I haven't seen a setup closeup, I can understand because of the linkages down by the BB shell, but a Bullit should have no such problems.

Hope you can get it sorted. The Evil/E.13 guys are really helpful if you send them a couple pictures of your setup - they might be able to give you detailed instructions on how to change your setup to suit. Or, bring it to their race tent.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Width of 2.5 Kinetic dh is cause of rub.....

binary visions said:
Hm.. Well, I have a small BB spacer on my Imperial and it shifts fine, so if the rubbing really starts to bother you, you could give it a try. Mine rubbed with a 2.5" Michelin, too.

I also have my roller tucked up a little higher than Evil recommends. They say the bottom of the roller should be in line with the bottom of the bashguard, I have mine tucked up almost touching the chainstay, probably .25-.5" above the bottom of the bashguard. I've had no issues with it set up like that, and it keeps the roller mostly out of the way.

Of course, I'm not that great at getting up and over tall objects so I still whack it from time to time, and if I hit it hard, it moves. But as you said, I'd rather have the relatively inexpensive boomerang move and possibly bend/break than shear off the ISCG tabs on an expensive frame.

Still not sure why the roller has to be run low on a Bullit? The VPP-Free, while I haven't seen a setup closeup, I can understand because of the linkages down by the BB shell, but a Bullit should have no such problems.

Hope you can get it sorted. The Evil/E.13 guys are really helpful if you send them a couple pictures of your setup - they might be able to give you detailed instructions on how to change your setup to suit. Or, bring it to their race tent.
Frame is not an issue. If the guide wasn't as long as it is, it wouldn't hit. To clarify: the only time it rubs is when it gets whacked & pushed upwards. You know a few well placed strokes of th' ol'Dremel tool might make this lil'prob a non-issue. :D ;) E13 guys were @ the Ashville, NC freeride contest back in May. Didn't have issues bk then, didn't even have th' guide bk then or I could've asked them. O'well lessons always stick w/us longer when we figger'em out for ourselves. So, I guess I'm gonna pull the crank/bb/guide off tonight see what I can do....after I ride of course. :p
 

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First off, Binary, thanks for the help.
One-Hand-Man,
Unfortunately with the 68mm BB shell this issue pops up every now and again. The best thing to do is space the DRS backplate out from the BB shell a mm or two. With a 118 BB spindle you should be able to do this and not really effect your shifting performance. The rotation of Binary's roller is a good way to go with these frames if you can manage it. If you feel you might have to file or dremel the back side of the backplate a bit go for it. Get that thing tucked up there and you won't have to worry about smacking it anymore. Feel free to get in touch with us directly if you want 207.772.3132 Thanks.

Regards,

Jonas
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks, good to know you are w/us.

E13Tech said:
First off, Binary, thanks for the help.
One-Hand-Man,
Unfortunately with the 68mm BB shell this issue pops up every now and again. The best thing to do is space the DRS backplate out from the BB shell a mm or two. With a 118 BB spindle you should be able to do this and not really effect your shifting performance. The rotation of Binary's roller is a good way to go with these frames if you can manage it. If you feel you might have to file or dremel the back side of the backplate a bit go for it. Get that thing tucked up there and you won't have to worry about smacking it anymore. Feel free to get in touch with us directly if you want 207.772.3132 Thanks.

Regards,

Jonas
I appreciate your presence here & most of all "making it known". So many other manuf. are willing to let customers wallow around in a bad situation w/their product & NOT offer any help/knowledge. This doesn't cause anything good to happen. Thanks Jonas.

Hey everybody!! Mad Props to Jonas from E13 for keeping it real!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
After scopin' th' factors in this situation....

E13Tech said:
First off, Binary, thanks for the help.
One-Hand-Man,
Unfortunately with the 68mm BB shell this issue pops up every now and again. The best thing to do is space the DRS backplate out from the BB shell a mm or two. With a 118 BB spindle you should be able to do this and not really effect your shifting performance. The rotation of Binary's roller is a good way to go with these frames if you can manage it. If you feel you might have to file or dremel the back side of the backplate a bit go for it. Get that thing tucked up there and you won't have to worry about smacking it anymore. Feel free to get in touch with us directly if you want 207.772.3132 Thanks.

Regards,

Jonas
I have noticed the size of the bashgaurd makes you run the roller so far out to the end of the guide plates that I don't feel comfortable grinding on it because of the close proximity to the roller bolt. Anyone tried shaving the edge off of an E13 bashgaurd? Does E13 offer a smaller one? A smaller gaurd would allow you to tuck th' guide up high enough that it can't get whacked/driven upwards.

Czech th' VP Free thread.
See how low th' guide is on th' gray Free? Mine isn't much higher.
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=36615
 

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One-Hand-Man,
Do you have the 40T bashguard? The 36T is the smallest we currently make. The outer diameters are 185mm and 169mm respectively. The "Urban" bashguard (36T) would move the roller in closer to the BB spindle, but this doesn't really solve the issue. From what I understaned the backplate is having clearance issues. Unless it's really the hardware on the back side of the backplate that you are truly concerned with (in which case moving the roller in might do the trick). I guess you could always grind down an excessive bolt material on the back side.
I think the real solution here, though, is to space out the backplate as mentioned before. I've done this on numerous Bullits and all with success. I truly believe your chainline will be fine and your shifting performance won't be compromised.

Binary-
Thinnk you could throw down a few pics here if you have any laying around? I'll look for some myself.
 

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E13Tech said:
Binary-
Thinnk you could throw down a few pics here if you have any laying around? I'll look for some myself.
I don't have any closeups here at work but when I get home tonight I'll take a few snapshots and upload them. My chainline is fine even with the small spacer I use, and when I was running the wider tires, the spacer fixed the rubbing problem - and of course, as a side effect, allowed me to run the boomerang rotated more which tucked the roller out of the way..

When my guide was rubbing, it had nothing to do with the hardware that attaches the roller, the actual backplate, as you said, was rubbing. Grinding down the bolts or getting a smaller bashguard wouldn't have helped.

M.W.O.H., if you can wait until about 5:00 I'll upload a couple pictures of my setup and you can see the size spacer I use and the effect on the chainline, and decide if that's the route you want to go or not.
 

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E13Tech said:
Thanks for all the help Binary. I appreciate you taking the time to help a brother out.
You guys @ Evil have answered so many of my own silly questions (not to mention JP doing me a huge favor when I stupidly mis-measured my fork steerer before trying to put it on my new Imperial frame), I think a couple of photos are the least I can do :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The reason for a smaller bash ring is....

because the roller bolt is pushed further bk due to the size of the bash ring. The bolt is so close to the area that the plates need to be cut down to, I don't feel comfortable about the integrity of the plate to hold the bolt very well, the bolt would be very close to the edge of the plate. I'll try the spacer in behind the plate on my bb & go from there. I'll czech bk later on for the pics Binary. I must have the larger 40 tooth ring, it looks huge compared to the 32 tooth ring. Thanks guys.
 

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Pictures...

Here's the pictures. The red circle on the underneath shot is what my tire used to rub on when I was running a 2.5". Didn't come anywhere near the bolts. With a 40t ring, though, I can see how the hardware might be uncomfortably close. Don't see any reason why you couldn't pick up a shorter bolt from your local hardware store...

On the side shot, you can see that the top of the backplate is almost sitting on the chainstay (red circle). I have no problems with it rotated this far around - I would expect that too much further and the chain might bind up in there, but this setup works fine.

There is a closeup of the spacer I use, too. Without the spacer, the backplate rubbed when I had the boomerang rotated this far - I had to move the boomerang to the recommended position (in line with the bottom of the bashguard). As you can see, my chainline is fine - I have no problem in the big ring/big gear combo - though I don't use it much anyway (after all, that's why I bought a DRS instead of an SRS right?). When it's shifted right down the middle, the chainline is okay. It's not perfect, but I have no shifting issues so I guess it's as good as it needs to be, right?

edit: The picture makes my chainline look a little worse than it is. I shot it at a couple angles and can't get a better picture out of it. But like I said, if there's no shifting problems, it's good so...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks B. Visionary for th' pics & your efforts....

binary visions said:
Here's the pictures. The red circle on the underneath shot is what my tire used to rub on when I was running a 2.5". Didn't come anywhere near the bolts. With a 40t ring, though, I can see how the hardware might be uncomfortably close. Don't see any reason why you couldn't pick up a shorter bolt from your local hardware store...

On the side shot, you can see that the top of the backplate is almost sitting on the chainstay (red circle). I have no problems with it rotated this far around - I would expect that too much further and the chain might bind up in there, but this setup works fine.

There is a closeup of the spacer I use, too. Without the spacer, the backplate rubbed when I had the boomerang rotated this far - I had to move the boomerang to the recommended position (in line with the bottom of the bashguard). As you can see, my chainline is fine - I have no problem in the big ring/big gear combo - though I don't use it much anyway (after all, that's why I bought a DRS instead of an SRS right?). When it's shifted right down the middle, the chainline is okay. It's not perfect, but I have no shifting issues so I guess it's as good as it needs to be, right?

edit: The picture makes my chainline look a little worse than it is. I shot it at a couple angles and can't get a better picture out of it. But like I said, if there's no shifting problems, it's good so...
I spent this evening grinding a 'lil off the bk plate & putting the spacer in behind th' guide plate. Immediate shifting problems. Couldn't solve it w/adjustments in shifter/derailluer. Also, chain developed a tendency, while in granny ring, to lay in the lower part of the roller that's used while in the 32t ring. It wouldn't kick bk up onto the higher lip of the roller when you shift into granny ring. I removed the spacer & shifting was fine, but I was still having chain/roller problems. The chain was still laying in the lower section of the roller while in granny ring. After rotating the guide plate back down to where it was before I started, it finally started jumping bk up to the high section of the roller when shifted into grannyring, however, it wants to lay @ an angle on the roller w/the groove of the chain riding on the edge of the high section while peddlin'. So after the various & sundry removals & adj. I have realized that you can't run the guide high enough to keep it from gettin' whacked and get it to run over the rollers correctly. So I'm gonna try it where it is now...for awhile. O'yeah, its the urban 36t bash ring. Still looks large.
Thanks for the help guys.
 

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Hrm.. That must have been a pretty big spacer to cause such problems off the bat. Can't imagine that a 2-3mm shift would cause such a huge problem?! Mine didn't even require fooling with the shifter settings.

You're using the appropriate number of back plates, right? 2 for a 118 spindle.

With the number of people running Evil guys on Bullits, I'm a little suprised there haven't been more people posting with rubbing issues..? Dremeling alone didn't solve the problem?
 

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Binary-
Thanks again for the info and pics. Well thought out approach, my friend.

1HandMan -
You really only need a 1 - 1.5 mm spacer to get the job done. But, Binary seems to be running more than that and is not having any issues. What size spacer were you using? I too wonder if the wearplate and roller set up need another spacer behind them. Is there any way you can getsome pics up for us? Thanks, man.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Not sure of spacer thickness....

E13Tech said:
Binary-
Thanks again for the info and pics. Well thought out approach, my friend.

1HandMan -
You really only need a 1 - 1.5 mm spacer to get the job done. But, Binary seems to be running more than that and is not having any issues. What size spacer were you using? I too wonder if the wearplate and roller set up need another spacer behind them. Is there any way you can getsome pics up for us? Thanks, man.
The spacer came on my Bullit w/Gigapipe bb. If I read th' destructions that came w/the guide correctly, I didn't need to put any plates in except the ft & bk plates. My digicam is pretty crappy but, I'll try to get a pic or 2 tonight to show you what I'm talkin' about. The spacing lines up well, but the 2.5 Kenda Kinetic rubs if it gets whacked upwards. The dremelin' helped w/th' rubbin' but shifting suffered when the spacer was added. Then the roller became an issue. I figured I was tryin to run it too high & th' chain couldn't get up over the lip of the high section of the roller. O'well I'll work on it again tonight. Thanks guys.
 

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man w/ one hand said:
The spacer came on my Bullit w/Gigapipe bb. If I read th' destructions that came w/the guide correctly, I didn't need to put any plates in except the ft & bk plates. My digicam is pretty crappy but, I'll try to get a pic or 2 tonight to show you what I'm talkin' about. The spacing lines up well, but the 2.5 Kenda Kinetic rubs if it gets whacked upwards. The dremelin' helped w/th' rubbin' but shifting suffered when the spacer was added. Then the roller became an issue. I figured I was tryin to run it too high & th' chain couldn't get up over the lip of the high section of the roller. O'well I'll work on it again tonight. Thanks guys.
Take a look at my first picture. It's got a stack of 3 parts - the boomerang, and two of the plastic plates. For a 113 spindle, you use 1 plate, for a 118 spindle, you use 2.

Maybe that's the problem...
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
OK this is what I've found out.

binary visions said:
Take a look at my first picture. It's got a stack of 3 parts - the boomerang, and two of the plastic plates. For a 113 spindle, you use 1 plate, for a 118 spindle, you use 2.

Maybe that's the problem...
My spindle is 113, I went ahead & tried boomerang & 2 plates, it will not work. Plates hit the chain & crank. Back to 1 plate, then I tried putting an extra washer behind the roller. It hasn't helped, the chain still wants to ride @ angle on the edge of th' top rooler lip, like it's trying to fall off on th' lower section. If you compare th' crappy pics to each other you might be able to tell whats happenin'. 1st pic is angled alignment, 2nd is correct alignment. Whats weird is it wasn't doing it before I messed w/it. If it was I didn't notice it.
 

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