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E-bikes on your local mountain bike trails?

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OOOOOOOh Gee Are Eee
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Most of them I’ve worked with. They grudgingly accept mountain bikes and do what they can to reduce opportunities, but they’re immovable on ebikes. That’s equestrians and “hikers” (who continue to deny they’re just anti-MTB despite all the evidence).
I guess so? I just don't see these anti-ebike but ok with bike folks myself.

As I've mentioned above, I don't think the two need to be tied at the hip regardless. I just think it's foolish in most cases to split our efforts. If mountain bike advocacy groups start tossing ebikes under the bus, they start losing membership, trail crew, and money. When you approach land managers, that's the currency they speak.

Can this trail group help build and maintain trails? Do they have money or access to grants to get new trails built? Do they have enough members to be worth working with?

eBikes are an increasing part of all of that. The forest service is shifting their trail access policies to give preference to user groups who are more capable of supporting their own trails. This is a big part of why bike access is so good where we are, mountain bike groups are a net positive to the national forests. Horseback riding groups require more resources and the forest service and other land managers are putting their needs on the back burner as a result.

Splintering our efforts means we now have 2 smaller/ less influential groups with sometimes conflicting goals. That makes the community as a whole less effective.
 

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Splintering our efforts means we now have 2 smaller/ less influential groups with sometimes conflicting goals. That makes the community as a whole less effective.
Here, we have one large, well organized and hardworking group that's spent many, many years building relationships with land managers and proving that we put our proverbial money where our mouths are when it comes to trail stewardship and self-policing, then we have a small unproven group of newcomers who want to simply show up and ride those coattails. (And apparently then want to fight hard to try to exclude the next group behind them).
 
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Bullshit. Lots of people want exactly that.
And what's up with yelling scooter?

Obviously you mean that as in insult to anyone who might choose a slightly bigger motor than you've deemed acceptable.
I guess for you the whole 'we need to get together and stick together' thing only works one way, huh?
I'm not interested in including non-pedal assisted or class 2 and 3 bikes in the category that should be allowed on trails so I like to clearly delineate the massive operational difference between them and Class 1, no-throttle machines.

Yes it's exclusionary but it's also logical and allows a large group of restrained users that closely align with traditional cyclists regarding impacts to trails and users to share trails without being discriminated against.

So, to repeat, scooters and overpowered ebikes don't belong on MTB trails, they are the very definition of what people don't want and can have outsized impacts on other riders and the trail itself. They should seek motorized trails and let it rip, I shall pass no judgement since I'll be on tight sections and slower trails where those machines are not allowed.
 

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I wouldn't go that far.
I wouldn't and don't fight against e-bikes, as a mountain biker, I'm just not interested in having to do their advocacy work for them, which is what many seem to think they are owed for some reason.

I think the position our regional trail group has taken on the issue is reasonable.
They support e-bike access, but have aren't interested in taking over all the heavy lifting in place of the people who actually should be doing it.

"NEMBA recognizes that electric mountain bikes (eMTBs) are growing in popularity and our position has evolved to address the opportunities and challenges associated with this new trail use. NEMBA believes that class 1 eMTBs differ significantly from other motorized vehicles and offer a recreational experience similar to traditional mountain biking. While the experience is similar, NEMBA remains concerned about land managers' perceptions of user conflict and environmental impact. It is important to recognize that NEMBA does not set policy for access on properties and we support land managers’ decisions and rules about mountain bike access on their lands. We strongly encourage all groups of trail users to know and abide by the policies set by land managers for access and trail use.

NEMBA believes class 1 eMTB are a unique class of trail use, closely related to traditional mountain biking but separate and distinct. NEMBA feels that access to trails for class 1 eMTB riders in New England needs to increase. We call for eMTB enthusiasts to come together and advocate for the access they deserve. This effort needs to be led by people who have a passion for eMTB access. NEMBA looks to work cooperatively with this new eMTB advocacy group to support their efforts and share information. We envision a relationship where we can work together to find solutions to the challenges facing eMTB access while preserving access for traditional mountain biking as well."
So you complain that I call Class 2 ebikes scooters then advocate for the NEMBA approach which explicitly states that Class 1 eMTBS are closely analogous and uniquely suited for MTB trails- my position exactly. So your entire point is that you have some tortured neutrality and no one has Land Manager connections like you do? Is that it?
 

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my local trails do not allow them, any of them, anything with a motor whatsoever...NO

and that is 100% awesome to me
 

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So you complain that I call Class 2 ebikes scooters then advocate for NEMBA which explicitly states that Class 1 eMTBS are closely analogous and uniquely suited for MTB trails- my position exactly. What are you even talking about at this point?
His distinction is that NEMBA recognizes that they're pretty similar, but different. And that user group should form their own advocacy group that represents their direct interests. NEMBA is essentially taking an agnostic stance to their presence, except that they'd be willing to unite on certain policy issues that are shared.
 

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OOOOOOOh Gee Are Eee
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I'm not interested in including non-pedal assisted or class 2 and 3 bikes in the category that should be allowed on trails so I like to clearly delineate the massive operational difference between them and Class 1, no-throttle machines.
I don't think this is a big issue regardless. This is more-or-less where the majority of land managers, bike makers, and advocacy groups stand on this also.
 

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OOOOOOOh Gee Are Eee
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my local trails do not allow them, any of them, anything with a motor whatsoever...NO

and that is 100% awesome to me
It's funny how closely all of this parallels the whole mountain bike access fights of the 90s.

Back in the day, lots of places had no policies on bikes or no bike policies so mountain bikers with no place to ride just rode them regardless. Or they rode off map/ home built trails.

Same exact thing is happening now. Just with ebikes on no motorized vehicle trails.

Much like mountain bikes back in the 90s. If you don't give people a place to ride, they are going to ride in the places where they aren't supposed to ride.

Correction, that wasn't back in the 90s, we're still dealing with this issue now with mountain bikes. There are still lots of places where access sucks and people ride regardless. Just because you don't provide a place for people to ride doesn't mean people stop riding.
 

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for the parking lot police, it will be the audubon society folks who have WAY more pull $$$$$$$$$ in trail committees who will bring the holy hate down on the ebiker.
 

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It's funny how closely all of this parallels the whole mountain bike access fights of the 90s.

Back in the day, lots of places had no policies on bikes or no bike policies so mountain bikers with no place to ride just rode them regardless. Or they rode off map/ home built trails.

Same exact thing is happening now. Just with ebikes on no motorized vehicle trails.

Much like mountain bikes back in the 90s. If you don't give people a place to ride, they are going to ride in the places where they aren't supposed to ride.

Correction, that wasn't back in the 90s, we're still dealing with this issue now with mountain bikes. There are still lots of places where access sucks and people ride regardless. Just because you don't provide a place for people to ride doesn't mean people stop riding.
Current USFS planning rules postdate that. And I’m less familiar with the BLM, but I imagine that’s the same situation.
 

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We (mtb riders) think of e-mtb riders as ex-mountain bikers but there's a colossal population of people outside of the mtb community who will be using emtbs on your trails:

For example, RV forums are awash with people using e-mtbs, and not just for dipping into town for a box of "Depends". It's become a "thing to do" when you're living in camp for a month. This goes for those van-lifers as well.

And, as I've mentioned yesterday, the motocross community is flocking to e-mtbs. As for their attitudes regarding trail access and usage, they sound like Klingons at the all-you-can-eat meat buffet.
 

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OOOOOOOh Gee Are Eee
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Current USFS planning rules postdate that. And I’m less familiar with the BLM, but I imagine that’s the same situation.
I was actually thinking about some friends who live adjacent to the Mokelumne river who have access to miles and miles of really fantastic for bikes not-bike legal trail controlled by EBMUD. No legitimate reason they shouldn't be bike legal, just EBMUD stupid policy. Lots of organizations other than USFS control land.

At this point I think the forest service is one of the better agencies to deal with. Largely due to their recent policy changes which put preference on trail users who maintain their own trails. A policy which favors mountain bike groups who tend to be very good at organizing trail work.

BLM comes in close second with their "We don't give a fu.. what you do on our land so long as we can sell lumber" attitude.
 

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Really? Also *you're, spaces, capitalization and punctuation. You should go back to high school.

I find it absolutely hilarious that when someone like yourself is frustrated in a discussion, they begin personal attacks.

What is extra hilarious is that you went to my profile and decided to make fun of me based on my listed profession. I'm betting that 80% of the people on this forum wish they could get paid to mountain bike. I'm also retired and do it because I want to so you definitely failed with that attack.

I would put you on my ignore list but your comments are just to precious to miss.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
🤷🏻‍♂️The fact that you have had nothing better to do but attack my spelling on my $2 phone is really funny.the subject had to do with e bikes.So you own one?
 

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It is exclusionary. I get that you don't agree but I think I make a very good case for relative trail impacts and note a huge distinction in bikes that are assisted vs bikes than can actually be driven with no rider power input.

Class 2 and beyond- basically people on scooters- is exactly what I think most trail users don't want anywhere near hikers and traditional bicyclists- and with good reason.
Do you own one or have you put any hours on a class 2 full suspension bike.Just asking for a world class cyclist?
 

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It's funny how closely all of this parallels the whole mountain bike access fights of the 90s.

Back in the day, lots of places had no policies on bikes or no bike policies so mountain bikers with no place to ride just rode them regardless. Or they rode off map/ home built trails.

Same exact thing is happening now. Just with ebikes on no motorized vehicle trails.
What is the Venn diagram look like for trail workers and eBikers? I am guessing those too lazy to peddle a bike are not exactly into the hard work of building trails. It probably looks similar to equestrians and trail workers, i.e. no overlap.
 

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What is the Venn diagram look like for trail workers and eBikers? I am guessing those too lazy to peddle a bike are not exactly into the hard work of building trails. It probably looks similar to equestrians and trail workers, i.e. no overlap.

You're embarrassing yourself. Typical trope of "people who ride E-bikes are lazy".
I ride an E-bike and a bike. A lot.
Full time job running my own business and I have a family. Putting two kids through school.

Try looking around, educate yourself. Try an original thought.

 

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Tell you what let’s do a test.I’m in Petaluma California.let’s go for a ride and decide.I have a dozen bikes to Choose from.
Why is this starting to remind me of the ski race South Park episode?
no it sounds like you have never put the hours in I’m riding.when you a 60 year old man you can and will ride an e bike.The same trails I was riding my dirt bike in the sixty sand early seventies.that’s probably before you were born
 
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