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So....

I have a group of 25 or so dudes I ride with. Fitness level range from unfit guys who ride less than once a week to guys that ride most days. On any given group ride there is usually a 6-10 dudes ranging from unfit, mega fit.

The unfit guys are traditionally punished during the ride as they just dont have the time on the bike to have the fitness to go the average group speed. The fast guys typically are idling along getting a bit annoyed at the slowness of the ride.

Enter the E-bike. The least fittest guys in the group are slowly stepping up to E-bikes. Instantly the unfit guy can easily keep up on the up and flat. The whole group speed increases because the slow guy is now a fast guy up hill.
The slow guy is having a blast because he is not longer in the hurt locker for the whole ride, and he's riding with his fast mates that he can never keep up with traditionally. The fast guy gets to go faster and has more fun. The next result is a more fun ride for everyone.

Well.... the mid pack guy now becomes the slow guy and he enters the hurt locker more. Generally speaking mid pack guy can handle more hurt locker than slow unfit guy.
 

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I've said it before, E-Bike trail access isn't really an issue in New Zealand like it seems to be in the US. The change is the group dynamic. We've had riders leave our group, simply as they can do a 50KM loop when we do 25KM. They vanish on the flats and climb, and then we'd go on the downs. It didn't make sense to ride together with such big speed variation. That said, 25 riders is a big group, so it probably needed to split up a little.
I've been on rides where I've been the slowest, turned up with brother in law to his regular ride, the first hill my friends and I would sit, spin, chat and warm up, this group all stood up and went for it.
I bailed after ninety minutes as I was knackered!
 

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How are the unfit guys ever supposed to get fit if they ride around on a motor instead of putting in the time.
Yeah I think Paul the Punter had an interesting video on youtube, his friend essentially walked a tonne of climbs, making for a slow ride. Enter the E-Bike. However Paul would now need his one to keep up I suspect.
 

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I won't ride with anyone or any group that has a motor*.

*Unless motorpacing on road which is an entirely different thing
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I suffered my whole life in the hurt locker, and that is why I ride, for the Truth and Pain. LOVE IT

If I wanna go faster I do my homework (more rides, more training, nutrition choices, planning...)

you do you, I won't be there. it's cool though if you can agree on e-bike and your group stays together that's great.
 

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How are the unfit guys ever supposed to get fit if they ride around on a motor instead of putting in the time.
If only it was so easy. The difference between a fast Cat 1 racer and middle of the pack Cat 2 racer isn't usually training. It's mostly genetics. And fitness/effort on an eMTB is a choice - I ride mostly on my SC Hightower, but one day a week or so I'll take out my Orbea Rise. On Eco, I can get a workout 90% the same as on my Hightower, though I'll cover another 15% distance. If I'm riding solo or with another eMTBer, I might light it up a bit more. Occasionally I'll bring my eMTB on a mixed group ride if I've been riding a lot that week, and I'll keep it in a mode that puts me in the pack, not way out front.
 

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How are the unfit guys ever supposed to get fit if they ride around on a motor instead of putting in the time.
Maybe the unfit blokes don't care so much about getting in tip-top shape and simply want to have fun on a bike with their friends without entering the aforementioned hurt locker.

I got an ebike about 2 years ago and it has increased my fitness a ton. Due to weekly time constraints, I'm pretty much a weekend warrior when it comes to riding my mtb. Factor weather and closed trails into weekend riding plans, and I'm very lucky to average one ride a week over a year's time. I hit the gym on lunch breaks 3 days a week, and while a 30 minute workout in the gym helps, it doesn't completely prepare your body for a long mtb ride.

Before my ebike purchase, I was pretty much done after about an hour and a half on a regular bike, and I could forget doing anything physical for the rest of the day without it being a total suffer fest.
With the ebike, I can get 4 hours of riding time in, burning a **** ton of calories while doing so, all while my HR app tells my I'm increasing my fitness (my average HR while riding my emtb is usually somewhere in the mid to upper 140's). I'm racking up way more miles too, so I'm having a lot more fun on the big rides. I'm also not dead for the day afterwards either, so if the kids want to play or the yard needs mowing after the ride, I can do it without much of a problem.

Guess what happened after a year of putting in a bunch of big weekend rides on my ebike....

Whenever I get back on my regular bike to ride with my BIL or on trails where ebikes are not allowed, I find that my fitness on a regular bike is WAY better than it ever was before I got the ebike. I also find that riding my regular mtb is more fun now as well, since my fitness is better and the bike is SO much lighter than the ebike.

I've never had this much fun on any kind of bike before, and I haven't been in this good of shape since my college days.
 

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Maybe the unfit blokes don't care so much about getting in tip-top shape and simply want to have fun on a bike with their friends without entering the aforementioned hurt locker.

I got an ebike about 2 years ago and it has increased my fitness a ton. Due to weekly time constraints, I'm pretty much a weekend warrior when it comes to riding my mtb. Factor weather and closed trails into weekend riding plans, and I'm very lucky to average one ride a week over a year's time. I hit the gym on lunch breaks 3 days a week, and while a 30 minute workout in the gym helps, it doesn't completely prepare your body for a long mtb ride.

Before my ebike purchase, I was pretty much done after about an hour and a half on a regular bike, and I could forget doing anything physical for the rest of the day without it being a total suffer fest.
With the ebike, I can get 4 hours of riding time in, burning a **** ton of calories while doing so, all while my HR app tells my I'm increasing my fitness (my average HR while riding my emtb is usually somewhere in the mid to upper 140's). I'm racking up way more miles too, so I'm having a lot more fun on the big rides. I'm also not dead for the day afterwards either, so if the kids want to play or the yard needs mowing after the ride, I can do it without much of a problem.

Guess what happened after a year of putting in a bunch of big weekend rides on my ebike....

Whenever I get back on my regular bike to ride with my BIL or on trails where ebikes are not allowed, I find that my fitness on a regular bike is WAY better than it ever was before I got the ebike. I also find that riding my regular mtb is more fun now as well, since my fitness is better and the bike is SO much lighter than the ebike.

I've never had this much fun on any kind of bike before, and I haven't been in this good of shape since my college days.
I also find that riding my eMTB at the limit improves my overall bike handling, speed of decision making, and skills both on the regular bike and when I hop on my KTM dirt bike.
 

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How are the unfit guys ever supposed to get fit if they ride around on a motor instead of putting in the time.
What about the one unfit guy who doesn't buy a motor? Instead of having people at the back to share suffering as they all get in shape, now he is the lone guy getting his ass kicked and holding everyone up.
 

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With the ebike, I can get 4 hours of riding time in, burning a **** ton of calories while doing so, all while my HR app tells my I'm increasing my fitness (my average HR while riding my emtb is usually somewhere in the mid to upper 140's). I'm racking up way more miles too, so I'm having a lot more fun on the big rides. I'm also not dead for the day afterwards either, so if the kids want to play or the yard needs mowing after the ride, I can do it without much of a problem.

Guess what happened after a year of putting in a bunch of big weekend rides on my ebike....
I did a completely unscientific test not long ago. Rode up and down a big hill on my normal bike, then an e-bike. First ride had a max heart rate of 180, average 161. On the e-bike max was 160 and average 127. I don't know enough about exercise, but I'd have to ride much faster or much longer on the e-bike to get the same workout.
NB. I deliberately rode the e-bike at the same speed as my normal bike.

I understand though. I'm pretty much limited to weekends, but notice a difference if I can squeeze in a midweek ride for a couple of weeks.
 

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How are the unfit guys ever supposed to get fit if they ride around on a motor instead of putting in the time.
My wife will never be as fit as I am. She doesn't have the time or inclination for mid-week rides and commuting to work.

She likes riding with us on weekends though. We like riding with her on weekends as well. Riding the ebike absolutely makes her more fit.

What is hard to understand about this?
 

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What about the one unfit guy who doesn't buy a motor? Instead of having people at the back to share suffering as they all get in shape, now he is the lone guy getting his ass kicked and holding everyone up.
Honestly, it's no different than choosing your riding partners without motors. Some of the people I ride weekly (on regular MTBs) are always going to make me suffer. Some groups I ride with I'm the fast guy. It just "is what it is".
 
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