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I've literally seen trail access lost because of a single picture on the internet.

But yea, that never happens... and this is why I gave up on being involved. Almost 20 years later, nothing has changed.
So true. It was one vid on social media this year that caused the FS to investigate a new DH trail and cite the builder. Well, they only caught one but $5000 fine and 3 month ban from the Coconino Nat. Forest. That's a hefty price to pay for an unauthorized activity on public land. Thankfully, from an advocacy and trail access perspective it's largely gone under the radar; unlike the citations and bans in Sedona that caused a **** storm.
 

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So true. It was one vid on social media this year that caused the FS to investigate a new DH trail and cite the builder. Well, they only caught one but $5000 fine and 3 month ban from the Coconino Nat. Forest. That's a hefty price to pay for an unauthorized activity on public land. Thankfully, from an advocacy and trail access perspective it's largely gone under the radar; unlike the citations and bans in Sedona that caused a **** storm.
So building an illegal trail (impact) = riding an ebike illegally on a trail (no impact). Interesting perspective....
 

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So building an illegal trail (impact) = riding an ebike illegally on a trail (no impact). Interesting perspective....
Nice try. No, my comment was only in reply to the one that dysfunction made regarding pics posted on the internet.

As you wish...b-bye. :)
Hey Browneye, before you go I'm curious how old you are? One of the main themes in this thread is ebikes allowing us older folks to continue riding. I'll add that I'm almost 59 and have a total knee replacement. My wife still rides but has a degenerative neurological disease. I'm starting to look into tandems. Ride on.
 

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Rockman
First off, thank you for all the trail work and the advocacy you do. I try to do what I can but don't have the stomach to sit through countless meetings & all the other behind the scene details that go into the process even before the first shovel gets planted.

I'm an older guy with some health issues myself and have both types of bikes, EBike & Amish ;)
If I was a stud youngster and knew what fun the eBike is I, would ride one as much as possible. He might be an older gentleman I suspect but age shouldn't be a reason to ride one. My son who is 30 also has both and rides his Kenevo most all the time now.
I understand the rules but really don't see the need to exclude eBikes myself. It will sort out in time.

Ride on
 

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I think we've all heard the pro's/con's, for/against, why eMtb's should be allowed or shouldn't be allowed on trails. Some arguments are valid, others a bit of a reach. In the end it all boils down to one stipulation: Does the land manager allow them on the trail? If yes, then go ride and enjoy. If not, find another place to ride legally and enjoy. I'm not a hater, I've ridden one a few times. Two out of three rides were fun, the other, not fun on slow, chunky, technical climbing, but that was probably because I'm not used to it. It's not for me, but perhaps 20 years down the road...who knows.

In the meantime, here's an easy to use flowchart to find out if you can eMtb on a desired trail, it's not complicated:
*Please, keep in mind almost of these reasons could be used by myself for why I feel bikes belong in Wilderness, but they aren't allowed, so I don't go. Plenty of other places to ride, but hopefully that will change soon thanks to persistent advocacy efforts.
1906640
 

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The new alternate trail sections off of the Desert Classic trail, West of Warpaint and up to the Helicopter Pad off of Desert Ridge Road were made for eBikes; they are crazy steep; like riding in the Boulders ORV area. Not sure about their sustainability though, What were they thinking??? But for now they are smooth and a great way to get up to the Helicopter Pad and that sweet little section of singletrack that drops back down to DC. Probably a great workout on a human-powered bike; it’s a real battery-burner on the eBike.
 

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Discussion Starter #91
The new alternate trail sections off of the Desert Classic trail, West of Warpaint and up to the Helicopter Pad off of Desert Ridge Road were made for eBikes; they are crazy steep; like riding in the Boulders ORV area. Not sure about their sustainability though, What were they thinking??? But for now they are smooth and a great way to get up to the Helicopter Pad and that sweet little section of singletrack that drops back down to DC. Probably a great workout on a human-powered bike; it’s a real battery-burner on the eBike.
I rode that section up last week on an acoustic bike and did not hate it. It was a nice sustained climb but there are some sections that I think after a few rains will be blown out pretty harshly. I liked it going up and it made for a nice change to my usual Sunday loop. My e-bike pal loved it tho.
 

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The biggest problem I have seen with ebikes is that when I try to talk ****, they get away too fast. Not fair. Ebikes = faster than SS.
 

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Blah, blah, blah....spode, bloviate, sanitize (dismissive masturbatory gestures) :rolleyes:
 

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I rode that section up last week on an acoustic bike and did not hate it. It was a nice sustained climb but there are some sections that I think after a few rains will be blown out pretty harshly. I liked it going up and it made for a nice change to my usual Sunday loop. My e-bike pal loved it tho.
I was pleasantly surprised this morning to see very little evidence of erosion on the new trail sections.
 

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Discussion Starter #96 (Edited)
I was pleasantly surprised this morning to see very little evidence of erosion on the new trail sections.
that is one thing I was thinking about with these trails, that they basically had powder for like a half an inch on top for months. I know very little about erosion, but I do no some about masonry work and it got me thinking that with these rains, that powder may just serve to clay the trail in if it didn't rain too hard. Hard rain though, I think it will be toast, as will many other trails. I think back to like 12 years ago when javelina was rocked hard.
 
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