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Update on AZ trails, parks, preserves, etc.
I rode Highline Trail for about 7 miles in from Pine, with ebike, which seems to be the reverse of the intended direction, as at that point the trail got steep and extremely rocky, with large steps, so I turned around and rode back down. I would not have gotten as far as I got without assist, it was up the mountain the whole way. Very fun, but quite technical and the further up the more difficult the trail got.
Visiting the trailhead on a Saturday, in the middle of the day, the parking lot was nearly full, probly two dozen cars - but, only saw two pairs of hikers the entire day. Not one gave a darn what kind of bike you were on, everyone was polite, allowed me to pass, I thanked them, kept on going.
So you rode the AZT on an e-bike. Cool story I guess.
 

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Update on AZ trails, parks, preserves, etc.
I spent two weeks touring the state, riding both eMTB and pedal Mtb...here's what I found.

Around Phoenix, the Maricopa County run parks - South Mountain and McDowell Mountain preserves, allow Class 1 eMTB'S.
Maricopa County does not operate South Mountain, that’s the city of Phoenix Parks Dept, different rule for each.


Now right next to the McDowell Mountain regional park are a couple of open land preserves that are managed by the city of Scottsdale. For some reason they decided that ebikes should not be allowed. No good reason, same kind of trails, access, location. Just arbitrary is my guess, or ill-informed. There is zero difference on the trails for either type, it's simply personal preference.
you raise a great point. The city should let Jeep’s and dirt bikes back in there since it was the predominant and historic use before the city swallowed up all that state trust land and started making preserves. There was a lot of great motorized trials trails up there too.

Out in Show Low the area is so vast there simply isn't any enforcement - people ride dirtbikes everywhere, even their side-by-sides right into town and up to the bar. EMTB's are the least of their worries.
Riding dirt bikes and side by sides on motorized trails and roads is legal in AZ... it’s those pesky ebikers and their grandiose sense of entitlement that have everyone worried. I’ve heard stories of those ebikers doing all kinds of nefarious things from poaching trails, faking Strava segments, and unrestricting their bike’s top speed. They are true menaces to society and should be rounded up and crushed like those illegally imported European and Japanese 4x4s everyone salivates over. Ebikers and those Onewheelers are ushering in the apocalypse, they must be stopped before it is too late. Ride a dirtbike to make the world a more harmonious place ;)
 

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These ebike threads usually just spiral down the drain but I noticed an odd thing riding Brown's Ranch last week. This is a high quality trail network with trails that flow and none of the climbs require much effort.

I observed lots of folks on ebikes in the 20-40 age bracket and quite a few old shredders in the 60-75 bracket doing it the old fashioned way. The other odd pattern is the dude on the ebike while his gal is analog.

Whatever but the rationale that "there's no good reason they shouldn't be allowed" or "no one cares what kind of bike you are on" is simply accepting poor behavior. Like an alcoholic rationalizing his next drink when this is the day I'm quitting. You know their not allowed but your going to do it anyway because by god it just doesn't make sense. And maybe that opinion does hold water but rest assured there are those in other user groups that do care. Arguing or making baseless claims in a mtn biking forum isn't reaching those groups who do give a **** and will fight to keep you out.

Poaching the AZT or riding at places like Brown's doesn't help the eBike cause.
 

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Tell us why it's 'poor behavior'? How is riding a bike poor behavior - I'm dying to know.

Why is a guy riding an ebike like an alcoholic? These fabrications are just that - poor comparisons to something YOU don't like, for whatever reason. It just doesen't affect you, by your own admission.

Some people 'give a ****' cuz they have some kind of emotional ax to grind. Their lifes lack meaning, part of the 'should people', always telling others what they 'should or shouldn't do' for some reason or other. You just can't apply logic, it's just all about your feelings, admittedly.
Your missing my point or maybe I'm not making it cogently. You are correct, it doesn't affect my user experience. However, riding your ebike when and where you want is selfish and entitled behavior. There are currently proposed regulations and revisions to existing uses on a number of different federal agencies including the BLM, NPS, and USFS being evaluated. Did you submit any comments? https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/2020/05/interior-rolls-out-controversial-e-bike-rules/

There's a process to allow them properly. For example, in Tahoe equestrians sued to overturn the forest services decision to allow ebikes on non-motorized trails because the FS jumped the gun. Historically, mtn bikers haven't gotten along with equestrians but the perception that opening trails to ebikes will make trails less accommodating for equestrian use is an argument they are making. True or not, it's the reality. Or hikers, runners, bird watchers, or whatever. Call it logic or just an observation but there are user groups that are not stoked about ebikes on multi-use, non-motorized trails. Personally I'm all about promoting cycling opportunities of all types but my main concern is access. Or losing it because of user conflicts.

Sorry if none of that is logical or you think I'm out to lunch. I go to a lot of meetings and listen to some of the most un-logical stuff imaginable. My point is that boasting about one's ebike exploits on a mtn biking forum on trails where they are not currently allowed is not where progress will be made on expanding e-bike access to public lands. I'm not fabricating anything or making any of this up. There are those that oppose ebikes and they are mostly not mountain bikers. Or, just do what you want because your old, entitled, earned it, or feel trails should be ADA compliant. Whatever, I don't care but there are those that do.
 

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I finally started getting back out on the bike recently. One thing I noticed since last time I rode out at SoMo was there were quite a few e-bikes out there. Seemed to be people of varying age ranges. No issues or conflicts with any that I saw. In fact, there were a few times when I was sucking wind that I wished that I had one.
 

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You guys are sure colorful, if not completely obscure.
So dirtbikes killing the environment more than your ebike? Would love to hear your logic on that topic, especially considering that there are several electric dirtbikes and class 3 ebikes that are essentially really fun dirtbikes. I imagine there are hikers and pedal bikers that think your ebike is killing the environment.

In terms of who is advocating for allowing motorized access on those new preserves... pretty much every jeep touring company in the valley and all the dirtbike riders in Rio Verde were commenting to the city at every step of the way. I would support allowing dirtbikes back, there aren't enough trails for that use in that area.
 

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Disgruntled Peccary
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My point is that boasting about one's ebike exploits on a mtn biking forum on trails where they are not currently allowed is not where progress will be made on expanding e-bike access to public lands. .
Just reiterating what I think is the primary point here.

In my experience, it's a great way to just lose existing access and bring up huge amounts of resistance to new access.
 

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Disgruntled Peccary
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I've already been through the loss of access deal in the past. And people thinking that it doesn't matter is exactly why I gave up on land use advocacy. I got tired of having to redo what was undone.

It doesn't take much, and to be honest equestrians are the worst for this. Why? They've got something many other users really don't have.. Money.
 

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Why is it that folks that are not entirely on the Ebike bandwagon are so easily lumped as haters? There is a huge gray area here. I do think it is just a matter of time but I'm not so sure they will be allowed on all non-motorized trails where mountain bikes are allowed currently. Or, maybe they will. That's why it's important to comment on proposed actions by land managers.

Or get involved if the ebike thing is your jam but I don't see much unified organization from the Ebike crowd. It's really hard to get trails proposed and approved in a legally defensible way and every user group wants their own trails where they won't be bothered by others who don't share their ideal way to recreate on public land. One thing for sure, it's been a **** show on trails in AZ as well as pretty much everywhere else in the Covid era. And lots of it is just people doing what they want. So I guess it strikes a raw nerve with me but in the big picture we may just actually get some directional mtn bike trails in my hood in the near future and that is a huge win. I'm not too worried about eBikes. They are not as much fun in the downhill direction anyway. Happy trails!
 

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E-bike hater here and no issue saying so publicly. That said, it’s not personal. If you ride a moped, I don’t hate YOU. I just don’t agree with the choices you’re making. No need to make more of it than it is.
 

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Disgruntled Peccary
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I don't have any hate for e-bikes. I really just don't care. I'm just saying my experience has been anything that shows that XXXXX group isn't following the rules, is heavily used against that group by people who just don't want them there anyway.

:thumbsup:
 

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I'm not an ebike hater necessarily, I just really worry about current and future trail access, so I prefer that whatever rules are in place are followed. If you read any of the hiker specific group for example for AZT thru-hikers, there are plenty of times when MTBers come up and there are PLENTY of them who think we shouldn't be there at all. I can't imagine that ebikes on the trail makes them feel any better about bike access. Same concept for pedal only MTB, we can't ride or even POSESS a bike in wilderness designated areas. So I and most people don't go in there with bikes. And it sucks because there is plenty of great wilderness designated trails that would be amazing to ride.
 

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You didn't lose access to a trail cuz a guy on a ebike rode it. Let's be honest.
So clueless on so many levels...
You rode a motorcycle for 50 years and fear ending up in a wheelchair due to your lack of ability to ride. Interesting, you would think all that experience would equate to skill development LOL.
 

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It simply takes away all the negative part of mountain bike riding.
Like talent, hard-earned fitness, the ability to persevere ...

Who are you trying to market to with all these words?
 

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I'm not an ebike hater necessarily, I just really worry about current and future trail access, so I prefer that whatever rules are in place are followed. If you read any of the hiker specific group for example for AZT thru-hikers, there are plenty of times when MTBers come up and there are PLENTY of them who think we shouldn't be there at all. I can't imagine that ebikes on the trail makes them feel any better about bike access. Same concept for pedal only MTB, we can't ride or even POSESS a bike in wilderness designated areas. So I and most people don't go in there with bikes. And it sucks because there is plenty of great wilderness designated trails that would be amazing to ride.

This exactly. There are plenty of sections of wilderness AZT i'd like to poach, but don't.

But there are always going to be entitled jerks who think they are better than the rest of us and don't need to follow the laws.
 

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Disgruntled Peccary
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I've literally seen trail access lost because of a single picture on the internet.

But yea, that never happens... and this is why I gave up on being involved. Almost 20 years later, nothing has changed.
 
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