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Discussion Starter #21
thanks for getting this, but with all due respect it is a 3 year old document.

According to the current website, "Forest Service Statement on Electronic Bicycle Use:
Emerging technologies such as e-bikes are changing the way people enjoy their visits to national forests and grasslands. Today, more than 60,000 miles of trails and roads on national forests and grasslands are currently open to e-bike use. As use trends change with time and new technologies, the way we manage lands to ensure their long-term health and resilience must change as well. This is why we are closely examining our policy to identify ways to expand access for American’s to enjoy these recreation opportunities on our forests and grasslands in ways that meet user needs while continuing to protect forest resources.”

I spoke with the mesa ranger district and was basically informed that there is no set policy with regards to E-bikes in the tonto district, except as indicating that pedal assist bikes are allowed on the trails that bikes are allowed. They also indicated that this is not real high on their list of things they enforce. It sounds like the NF policy is beginning to soften on this. likely if a Ranger stops someone, it will not be because they are on an E bike.

Please do not take this post as a lack of gratitude for your info you provided. It is very helpful to see the existing written documentation on an official form, I am curious if this will be changing soon. I anticipate it will become a much lengthier document soon.
 

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thanks for getting this, but with all due respect it is a 3 year old document.

According to the current website, "Forest Service Statement on Electronic Bicycle Use:
Emerging technologies such as e-bikes are changing the way people enjoy their visits to national forests and grasslands. Today, more than 60,000 miles of trails and roads on national forests and grasslands are currently open to e-bike use. As use trends change with time and new technologies, the way we manage lands to ensure their long-term health and resilience must change as well. This is why we are closely examining our policy to identify ways to expand access for American’s to enjoy these recreation opportunities on our forests and grasslands in ways that meet user needs while continuing to protect forest resources.”

I spoke with the mesa ranger district and was basically informed that there is no set policy with regards to E-bikes in the tonto district, except as indicating that pedal assist bikes are allowed on the trails that bikes are allowed. They also indicated that this is not real high on their list of things they enforce. It sounds like the NF policy is beginning to soften on this. likely if a Ranger stops someone, it will not be because they are on an E bike.

Please do not take this post as a lack of gratitude for your info you provided. It is very helpful to see the existing written documentation on an official form, I am curious if this will be changing soon. I anticipate it will become a much lengthier document soon.
It might be 3 year's old but the policy hasn't changed. Maybe that will change but to date it has not. That said, each national forest does operate a bit differently depending on direction from the forest supervisor or District Ranger.

With regard to the Coconino NF the LEO's spend most of their time policing for forest for over-extended stays (14 day limit) and vagrants. Domestic disputes are high on the list. Ebikes or even unauthorized trail building is way down the list. There are only two LEO for the Flagstaff Ranger District and I have yet to see one on a trail.
 

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I am Walt
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If I had or rode an e-bike (I don't, and never have ridden one), I would pretty much ride wherever I felt like, without regard for whether e-bikes were technically allowed. Why? Because nobody is enforcing whatever rules/restrictions might exist; whatever rules/restrictions that might exist are not clear at all to everyone - both users and authorities; and even if someone with authority were to stop me, I'm certain I would get an initial warning, at worst. Additionally, in my opinion, e-bikes don't impact the trails any worse than any other bike or user. In fact, I'd argue the opposite, but that's a topic for another day.

I am becoming more and more intrigued with the notion of e-bikes, as the technology progresses, and with lighter e-bikes, like the Spesh Levo SL, coming on the market. At 55, I am very fit, and don't have the need nor desire to ride an e-bike, but I can easily see how I might transition into one at some point given how they are progressing. But for now, I earn my turns...LOL.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
https://www.nps.gov/subjects/policy/upload/PM_19-01.pdf

I know the DOI does not oversee the forest service, but like Walt states above, It is likely that no one will enforce any "laws" as they have much bigger fish to fry than this. Especially given how ambiguous they are with their "official," positions. Most of us like to be on the right side of the law, but the law is very unclear honestly.
 

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If I had or rode an e-bike (I don't, and never have ridden one), I would pretty much ride wherever I felt like, without regard for whether e-bikes were technically allowed. Why? Because nobody is enforcing whatever rules/restrictions might exist; whatever rules/restrictions that might exist are not clear at all to everyone - both users and authorities; and even if someone with authority were to stop me, I'm certain I would get an initial warning, at worst. Additionally, in my opinion, e-bikes don't impact the trails any worse than any other bike or user. In fact, I'd argue the opposite, but that's a topic for another day.

I am becoming more and more intrigued with the notion of e-bikes, as the technology progresses, and with lighter e-bikes, like the Spesh Levo SL, coming on the market. At 55, I am very fit, and don't have the need nor desire to ride an e-bike, but I can easily see how I might transition into one at some point given how they are progressing. But for now, I earn my turns...LOL.
Very well said...

Personally, I'm 63 and try to ride 3-4 times per week. A couple of months back I had surgery(s) that changed me in more ways than one. About a month ago my loving wife told me I should finally get an ebike before I retire which took me milliseconds to pull the trigger on one.
Honest, I love riding this bike and I'm going on rides 2 1/2 times the length that I can do in almost the same amount of time since I have always sucked at climbing. I do it but struggle at it.
Still ride both bikes but if an area has a bunch of climbing, I'm grabbing the Levo. The biggest thing for me is when I'm done with the ride, I"M not done. In checking the HR for the ride and peak amounts, it's the same or even a bit higher due to me pushing myself because the bike is so much fun to ride.
 

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The .05 percent
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I guess my real only put-off for Ebikes is the sheer price. I think I saw the latest Spesh Ebike at over 13k. F'n rediculous. For that price i am buying a yz250, new mtb and a snowmobile.
 

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It's likely just a matter of time. I do find the constant yammering of ebike proponents as annoying. There is a gross sense of entitlement and huge lack of engagement with any kind of advocacy to gain acceptance. That might not be the case everywhere but certainly in my neck of the woods. If your not on the bandwagon your a hater.

It's a an extremely divisive issue and pits cyclists against one another. That's the main reason the organization I represent is taking a hand's off approach with letting the land owner decide. We did come out in support of ebikes on the urban trail system as a means to encourage commuting and getting more cars off the roads.
 

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I guess my real only put-off for Ebikes is the sheer price. I think I saw the latest Spesh Ebike at over 13k. F'n rediculous. For that price i am buying a yz250, new mtb and a snowmobile.
I agree completely. The price is pretty insane and if I am going to have a motor, I want real power.
 

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I am Walt
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Plenty of people spend up to $10K on their regular MTB’s; an e-bike is just another high-end bike, and many people don’t spend money on other “toys”. Supply and demand will dictate the price, and I’d imagine what you can get for lower price points will rapidly increase. But if they’re selling, then they’re priced OK for the market...YMMV.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

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I have no desire to ride an E-bike currently but I have no problem sharing the trail with them as the few that I have personally seen don't seem to cause any more issues than normal bikes.
This is pretty much where I stand as of now. I have seen e-bikes on T100, McDowell Mtn Park, McDowell Sonoran Preserve (north and central), and Phoenix Sonoran Preserve. They don’t seem to be any more or less destructive to trails than non-motorized. We have plenty of jackasses on non-motorized bikes that currently give all of us a bad name. Does an e-bike, in the hands of a similar jackass, give us any more of a bad name and threaten access? I don’t know. I guess as there are more e-bikes on trails, we’ll find out.

I had an old friend Arnie who passed away at 83. He dearly loved riding and was lucky to continue cycling right up to the end. But had he not been so lucky (good genes, good life long fitness) I would have supported his use of an e-bike so he could continue doing what he loved. Someone on this thread said that growing old is not a disability. But sometimes it is.

I’m 64, good cardio shape, and e-bikes don’t appeal to me. But as they say “never say never.”

Bob
 

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I'm opposed to them because once you open the door to legalize them. ALL manners of ebikes are going to be out there. What will happen is Class 1 & 2 will most likely be legalized but people will be modifying them to go faster, people will be out there with Class 3's because 99% of people can't tell the difference or know the difference and lastly, all the new high end ebikes/motos that can do 40,50,60 mph will be out there. Have you seen the new Segway model? Technically it's a dirt bike but a dirt ebike so what the hell. After all, MTB ebikes are technically mopeds.

You think it won't happen. People are riding ebikes already all over where they aren't supposed to. Signs are posted, they ignore them. We have a guy out here in SoCal that has one that does 45mph and he rides all over. There's people on this very thread admitting they's ride them wherever because there's no enforcement. That's not going to change when ebikes are legal so you might as well go all in with the Segway model and have more fun.
 

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I pass many e-bikes every time I ride at Brown’s, despite the signage prohibiting it at every trailhead.
Yep -- I'm relatively new to riding Browns since I live almost an hour away, but during my second ride there back in January I saw 4 different people on e-bikes and they were not together.
 

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I'm opposed to them because once you open the door to legalize them. ALL manners of ebikes are going to be out there. What will happen is Class 1 & 2 will most likely be legalized but people will be modifying them to go faster, people will be out there with Class 3's because 99% of people can't tell the difference or know the difference and lastly, all the new high end ebikes/motos that can do 40,50,60 mph will be out there. Have you seen the new Segway model? Technically it's a dirt bike but a dirt ebike so what the hell. After all, MTB ebikes are technically mopeds.

You think it won't happen. People are riding ebikes already all over where they aren't supposed to. Signs are posted, they ignore them. We have a guy out here in SoCal that has one that does 45mph and he rides all over. There's people on this very thread admitting they's ride them wherever because there's no enforcement. That's not going to change when ebikes are legal so you might as well go all in with the Segway model and have more fun.
Yep! For every old guy that buys an e-bike so that he can keep riding the same trails that he has been for 20 years there are 10 young dudes who will buy one because it lets them go fast with 1/2 the effort. Sure e-bikes will get more people out on trails, and I hope you like sharing all your trails with these mopeds that can and will exceed the 20mph speed limit that governs the Class 1 and 2 models, right up until the point when we all lose access because all other trail users have had enough!
 

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Yep! For every old guy that buys an e-bike so that he can keep riding the same trails that he has been for 20 years there are 10 young dudes who will buy one because it lets them go fast with 1/2 the effort. Sure e-bikes will get more people out on trails, and I hope you like sharing all your trails with these mopeds that can and will exceed the 20mph speed limit that governs the Class 1 and 2 models, right up until the point when we all lose access because all other trail users have had enough!
Those same guys will keep riding their bikes there after access is lost for the same reasons. No enforcement. Not any diff than people walking right past the no dogs on the beach sign.
 

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Yep -- I'm relatively new to riding Browns since I live almost an hour away, but during my second ride there back in January I saw 4 different people on e-bikes and they were not together.
Were they going way too fast and terrorizing other trail users? That seems to be the fear some people have but, from what I have actually experienced, it just isn't the case.
 

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The new City of Phoenix Parks code of conduct was approved late last year and bans e-bikes on all trails, see p.6 of the document, 3rd bullet from the bottom:

https://www.phoenix.gov/parkssite/Documents/Parks_Board_Report_Behavior_Policy_Oct_2019.pdf

Doesn't seem like it'll be enforced until sometime this spring since that is the timeframe for the education campaign, installing new signage, etc.
Woah. That's the first I have heard of this change coming. Although I am an avid ebike commuter, my experience on the trails is limited to one demo ride on a Turbo Levo at McDowell. Fun as hell, but yeah problematic if/when the numbers grow. I'd tell you I would be pissed had I spent the money on a bike I now can't ride.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
The new City of Phoenix Parks code of conduct was approved late last year and bans e-bikes on all trails, see p.6 of the document, 3rd bullet from the bottom:

https://www.phoenix.gov/parkssite/Documents/Parks_Board_Report_Behavior_Policy_Oct_2019.pdf

Doesn't seem like it'll be enforced until sometime this spring since that is the timeframe for the education campaign, installing new signage, etc.
So I emailed the city to get some clarification and basically, class 1 and 2 are considered bicycles and not electric bicycles according to the state, since they assist up to 20 MPH and the motor shuts off after that. So they are allowed wherever bicycles are allowed in the desert preserves.
 
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