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Did a quick search.

I'm aware that the Pivot bikes have a slightly rearward then go to a mostly vertical path.
My question is does/will all the Turners have a similar path. Reading that DW is slightly modifiable to produce different ride characteristics makes me wonder what DT is looking for out of his bikes.

:D
 

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The path on DW link bikes is usually set to minimise chain length variation in the most important gears.

Testing this on my Mojo saw an amazing lack of chain tension change when cycled through all 5.5" when in the middle/middle rings.
Turner may have asked for different priorities, who knows? The best way is to have somebody check it out for themselves on a 5 Spot.

Various DW diagrams show the instantaneous axle path being rearward at the unloaded end of the travel, however the rear axle does pivot in something very close to a simple arc: for the chain length reasons...
This would of course have the axle path moving rearwards at first, then swinging slightly more towards vertical and the rear suspension compressed :)
 

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Well......

While reading the Turner website's explanation of how the DW Link works I never read DT referring specifically to how he fine-tuned the DW for a Turner-like ride. It was always "a DW Link bike" never "The Turner DW Link design etc". So I now know more about what DW was going for but not much about how specifically DT fine-tuned his DW bikes, if you know what I mean. But, then maybe it just doesn't matter, in the end it's the ride that counts. I've said before "it feels just like a Turner only better."
 

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xcguy said:
While reading the Turner website's explanation of how the DW Link works I never read DT referring specifically to how he fine-tuned the DW for a Turner-like ride. It was always "a DW Link bike" never "The Turner DW Link design etc". So I now know more about what DW was going for but not much about how specifically DT fine-tuned his DW Ts, if you know what I mean.
It's all been discussed at length in more than one thread here. I'm sure you can find one... ;)
 

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jncarpenter said:
It's all been discussed at length in more than one thread here. I'm sure you can find one... ;)
Ah I agree the only problem is what about all the peeps in the world who don't know about mtbr or homies :lol:

I thought it was in the pdf my head hurt reading that stuff so I stopped after I put the link up :D
 

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Well what do you know, I think DT and DW decided to be a little sneaky and make their competitors at least buy one of the new 5 Spots to reverse engineer the linkage. :D

I was interested to see how different the axle path of the DW-link Spot is from that of the TNT Spot, similarly to what DT showed with his animation when he went from HL to TNT. So I used what I thought was the actual axle path of the DWL Spot as pictured in the Tech section of Turner bikes website. To compare it to the TNT axle path, I calculated the circle that best fits the 5 points along the axle path.

I superimposed the circle I calculated in white on the website image and, lo and behold, either the DW link axle path is identical to a single pivot (which I highly doubt) or DT decided not to show his hand as easily as it looked like. Indidentally, if the depicted circle was the actual axle path it would be centered at the red star just above the DW link decal on the chainstay.
 

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NYbike, did you look at these post by PeterE form the 1st DW Focus Group thread? I was very interested in his post but it kind of got droped. Looks to me like he said the same thing you came up with? DW link axle path explained within .01" with a single pivot model or TNT. It would be nice for someone with the math skills to verify and I hate DW did not respond to those post.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=4868553&postcount=65
http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=4872613&postcount=76
 

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nybike1971 said:
Well what do you know, I think DT and DW decided to be a little sneaky and make their competitors at least buy one of the new 5 Spots to reverse engineer the linkage. :D

I was interested to see how different the axle path of the DW-link Spot is from that of the TNT Spot, similarly to what DT showed with his animation when he went from HL to TNT. So I used what I thought was the actual axle path of the DWL Spot as pictured in the Tech section of Turner bikes website. To compare it to the TNT axle path, I calculated the circle that best fits the 5 points along the axle path.

I superimposed the circle I calculated in white on the website image and, lo and behold, either the DW link axle path is identical to a single pivot (which I highly doubt) or DT decided not to show his hand as easily as it looked like. Indidentally, if the depicted circle was the actual axle path it would be centered at the red star just above the DW link decal on the chainstay.
You are totally right, the picture was made in photoshop and deliberately shows no useful or accurate information. :)
 

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Phil_S said:
NYbike, did you look at these post by PeterE form the 1st DW Focus Group thread? I was very interested in his post but it kind of got droped. Looks to me like he said the same thing you came up with? DW link axle path explained within .01" with a single pivot model or TNT. It would be nice for someone with the math skills to verify and I hate DW did not respond to those post.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=4868553&postcount=65
http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=4872613&postcount=76
That is so wrong it's, well, lets just say that it's really inaccurate. The analysis method is non-workable.

I give you Homers a lot more credit than that, probably why there were not many responses

The 5 Spot's CC moves about 180mm through the travel. (That's over 7 inches for you non metric types) (A single pivot obviously moves 0 mm (0 inches ;) )
 

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toHELLuRIDE said:
Did a quick search.

I'm aware that the Pivot bikes have a slightly rearward then go to a mostly vertical path.
My question is does/will all the Turners have a similar path. Reading that DW is slightly modifiable to produce different ride characteristics makes me wonder what DT is looking for out of his bikes.

:D
Sorry I missed your post when you put it up.

The Turner and Pivot dw-links use nearly identical anti-squat curves, but are designed to exhibit different braking performance and use different leverage ratios which correspond to different shocks and air springs. (I feel like I have an optimal anti-squat curve that we use for most situations, and varying that curve is not necessary)

People talk about this mystical "vertical axle path". It does not exist, and if it did, you would not want to ride it, it would perform terribly.

The dw-link axle path is a complex curvature that changes radius by over 180mm (7 inches) through it's travel. The radius is much tighter at the beginning of the travel than later in the travel. This radius change is what allows dw-link to have high levels of anti-squat with very low levels of pedal feedback.

Hope this helps

Dave
 

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_dw said:
The Turner and Pivot dw-links use nearly identical anti-squat curves, but are designed to exhibit different braking performance and use different leverage ratios which correspond to different shocks and air springs.

People talk about this mystical "vertical axle path". It does not exist, and if it did, you would not want to ride it, it would perform terribly.

The dw-link axle path is a complex curvature that changes radius by over 180mm (7 inches) through it's travel. The radius is much tighter at the beginning of the travel than later in the travel. This radius change is what allows dw-link to have high levels of anti-squat with very low levels of pedal feedback.
dw,
I am a current dw-link owner. My next bike will be dw-link! The bike after that will be dw-link!

The more posts I read, the more confused I feel (i.e. mis-information/ theories). In layman terms, what are the differences (with regard to "nearly identical" axle path, braking performance and plushness) between the Pivot Firebird and the Turner RFX?
 
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