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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The new DW Split Pivot suspension design seems like it has a lot of potential for 29ers. First of all, the suspension designs that Dave Weagle comes up with just flat out work. I love my DW link Sultan, it tracks and pedals amazingly well. I see one of the real benefits of the Split Pivot design is that it will permit the use of shorter chainstays, also it should make for a nice stiff rear triangle. Not that short chainstays are the be all, end all, but unless you're Houdini you're not building a DW link(or largely inferior VPP ;) ) bike with short chainstays, over 5" of travel, and still have tire clearance for a meaty tread. Plus it seems, for those that are into plastic bikes, it would be fairly straightforward to build this design out of Carbon fiber.
I think it would be sweet to have a nimble 6" 29er, that doesn't have the drawbacks of the single pivot (I hear all you Lenz owners getting your pantys in a bunch :) ), nice tight rear triangle, stiff, and fairly light.
 

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Hasn't the split pivot been around for about 3 years now?

I don't really get it from the diagrams I saw... pivot at the rear axle. But what, exactly, does it do?
 

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OP - tell us how you really feel about your Dave Weagle man-crush.
 

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ballbuster
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Neet!

morandi said:
The new DW Split Pivot suspension design seems like it has a lot of potential for 29ers. First of all, the suspension designs that Dave Weagle comes up with just flat out work. I love my DW link Sultan, it tracks and pedals amazingly well. I see one of the real benefits of the Split Pivot design is that it will permit the use of shorter chainstays, also it should make for a nice stiff rear triangle. Not that short chainstays are the be all, end all, but unless you're Houdini you're not building a DW link(or largely inferior VPP ;) ) bike with short chainstays, over 5" of travel, and still have tire clearance for a meaty tread. Plus it seems, for those that are into plastic bikes, it would be fairly straightforward to build this design out of Carbon fiber.
I think it would be sweet to have a nimble 6" 29er, that doesn't have the drawbacks of the single pivot (I hear all you Lenz owners getting your pantys in a bunch :) ), nice tight rear triangle, stiff, and fairly light.
I hope I can ride one... see how it goes.

That said, isn't this basically a single pivot for rear axle path? I guess the brake is isolated from the chainstay, so brake jack should be reduced, but that's the only benefit my armchair engineering can see.
 

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pimpbot said:
I hope I can ride one... see how it goes.

That said, isn't this basically a single pivot for rear axle path? I guess the brake is isolated from the chainstay, so brake jack should be reduced, but that's the only benefit my armchair engineering can see.
Trek introduced their ABP design at the same time DW showed the split pivot. Pretty much the same concept. Supposed to keep the suspension active during braking and isolate it from chain forces.
 

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morandi said:
The new DW Split Pivot suspension design seems like it has a lot of potential for 29ers. First of all, the suspension designs that Dave Weagle comes up with just flat out work. I love my DW link Sultan, it tracks and pedals amazingly well. I see one of the real benefits of the Split Pivot design is that it will permit the use of shorter chainstays, also it should make for a nice stiff rear triangle. Not that short chainstays are the be all, end all, but unless you're Houdini you're not building a DW link(or largely inferior VPP ;) ) bike with short chainstays, over 5" of travel, and still have tire clearance for a meaty tread. Plus it seems, for those that are into plastic bikes, it would be fairly straightforward to build this design out of Carbon fiber.
I think it would be sweet to have a nimble 6" 29er, that doesn't have the drawbacks of the single pivot (I hear all you Lenz owners getting your pantys in a bunch :) ), nice tight rear triangle, stiff, and fairly light.
Do you work for Dave Weagle? Why slag VPP and tout a new design "you've" never ridden? Let's see how the Split Pivot bikes ride before we start swinging from DW"s nutz:eek:
 

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Harmonius Wrench
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First off, functionally the ABP and the Split Pivot do the same thing. Isolate braking forces from suspension. (Eliminate/lessen brake jack) I do not see where one will be better than the other.

Secondly, ABP/Split Pivot does not guarantee a design with shorter chain stays or a "nice stiff rear triangle". It will lessen the lever arm that could be exerted on a rear suspension by moving the seat stay pivot to be concentric with the rear axle, but that is dependant upon the rest of the design as well.

Basically, Split Pivot/ABP has great potential for 29"ers and will generally be a good benefit in the hands of good designers. But it doesn't necessarily mean it will be a slam dunk. ;)

morandi said:
The new DW Split Pivot suspension design seems like it has a lot of potential for 29ers. First of all, the suspension designs that Dave Weagle comes up with just flat out work. I love my DW link Sultan, it tracks and pedals amazingly well. I see one of the real benefits of the Split Pivot design is that it will permit the use of shorter chainstays, also it should make for a nice stiff rear triangle. Not that short chainstays are the be all, end all, but unless you're Houdini you're not building a DW link(or largely inferior VPP ;) ) bike with short chainstays, over 5" of travel, and still have tire clearance for a meaty tread. Plus it seems, for those that are into plastic bikes, it would be fairly straightforward to build this design out of Carbon fiber.
I think it would be sweet to have a nimble 6" 29er, that doesn't have the drawbacks of the single pivot (I hear all you Lenz owners getting your pantys in a bunch :) ), nice tight rear triangle, stiff, and fairly light.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
You guys are taking my sweepingly gross overstatements way too seriously. I have zero ride time, zero experience on the split pivot.
From a design point of view, it seems like it has potential for 29ers. Easier to build than linkage bikes, can allow for shorter chainstays, and allow for a stiff rear triangle. Period.
 

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Naturally Organic
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DW's patent...

Trek's response...

Explanation of how it works...

http://www.bikerumor.com/2010/07/27/dave-weagles-split-pivot-suspension-system-awarded-patent/

As for 29er usage, IMO, the Pivot Mach 429 with DW-Link is the best pedaling FS 29er I have demoed (followed by the VPP SC Tallboy, next the GF SF100, then the Spesh Epic). I would like to demo the Titus Rockstar Ti and the new S-Works Carbon Epic to see how they compare.

Edit: I have no interest in a Turner Sultan, but I hear they pedal great. I would ride one to see how it compares to an Intense T29...
 

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mnt bike laws of physics
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DW is into making bikes with more anti-sag than most if not all of the other designers. The main difference between between ABP and Split-Pivot will be just that....and from DW's diagrams, the upper linkage is different. Also, Split-Pivot will accomidate many different rear axles which is very nice...while ABP only takes quick release axles.
 

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The design is already being used on 29ers. It is on Gary Fisher bikes and they call it ABP. The chainstays aren't especially short either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Moustache rider said:
The design is already being used on 29ers. It is on Gary Fisher bikes and they call it ABP. The chainstays aren't especially short either.
Thats because Gary Fisher has weird ideas about bike geometry :) .
 

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morandi said:
You guys are taking my sweepingly gross overstatements way too seriously. I have zero ride time, zero experience on the split pivot.
From a design point of view, it seems like it has potential for 29ers. Easier to build than linkage bikes, can allow for shorter chainstays, and allow for a stiff rear triangle. Period.
Obviously. It is still a linkage design and there are many other ways to do short stays and stiff rear ends. The SP is no better or worse than most other suspension designs in terms of space efficiency.
 

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I'm not putting it down, but the only thing it does is to add a floating brake to a single-pivot or faux-bar design.

It's an improvement on those two designs, but it doesn't add anything that is particularly advantageous for 29er. All existing designs were developed for 26" and adapted to 29er.
 

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I saw this in MBA a buncha issues ago. It is similar to the Trek ABP but reversed. where the ABP has the Seatstay exterior the Splitpivot has the seatstay interior.

I see no way that this will have any impact on 29er specific suspension design other than allowing smaller manufacturers an open patent design that gives similar performance benefits as the Specialized horst link and the Trek ABP without stepping on the Patent Lawyers toes.
 

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T , V , & K Rider
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I agree !

SlowerThenSnot said:
interbike is sure gonna be interesting with this popping up
Yeah , I wish I could go and see and maybe test ride this new stuff myself....rather than hear it second hand by the E experts ! :D TIG.
 
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