[vegen]

Assuming components are the same or similar, do you think upgrading to a DW Link bike from a single pivot is worth it?

For reference in this case, the single pivot is a Marin Rift Zone and the DW Link would be a Ripmo AF. I know the travel is different but I'm thinking specifically of pedaling and climbing efficiency here.

 

[*OneSpeed*]

Your current bike will probably climb better than a Ripmo.

 

[WhiteDLite]

Probably want to compare a Ripley AF, but DW links are known to be great peddlers comparatively to other bikes of same travel.

Actually I think about any bike with a solid rear triangle seems to pedal well comparatively.

 

[vegen]

Thanks guys. I was considering the Ripmo because it's available. I'll keep riding what I've got until I can get a demo of something else (I was about 90% sure I would do this anyway, but it's always good to have some opinions, right?)

I was not expecting the Ripmo to be worse, is that because of the extra rear travel?

 

[WhiteDLite]

Thanks guys. I was considering the Ripmo because it's available. I'll keep riding what I've got until I can get a demo of something else (I was about 90% sure I would do this anyway, but it's always good to have some opinions, right?)

I was not expecting the Ripmo to be worse, is that because of the extra rear travel?

To be fair, you may want to see about the Ripmo. It’s a good bike, I love DW link bikes and solid rear triangle bikes.

I’ve had a Capra, and disliked pedaling it. Given I wasn’t in best shape when I had it. Went to the Firebird 29 V1 and loved it, pedaled so much better, but that’s still a 170/162 machine. It’s heavy. Finally an Arrival and that bike seems like a rocket, but it’s 160/152.

The wife has the 2021 5010, and although it’s a small I do like the feel of it when pedaling.

If it’s a local dealer go sit and do a parking lot pedal.

 

[vegen]

To be fair, you may want to see about the Ripmo. It’s a good bike, I love DW link bikes and solid rear triangle bikes.

I’ve had a Capra, and disliked pedaling it. Given I wasn’t in best shape when I had it. Went to the Firebird 29 V1 and loved it, pedaled so much better, but that’s still a 170/162 machine. It’s heavy. Finally an Arrival and that bike seems like a rocket, but it’s 160/152.

The wife has the 2021 5010, and although it’s a small I do like the feel of it when pedaling.

If it’s a local dealer go sit and do a parking lot pedal.

I'm thinking about going to an Outerbike this year. Should be some good ride opportunities at that.

 

[*OneSpeed*]

I was not expecting the Ripmo to be worse, is that because of the extra rear travel?

Yeah. Comparing a 125mm bike to a 147mm bike, generally a shorter travel bike will climb more efficiently. Plus you would expect a longer travel frame to be built more beefy and it will have slightly heavier components in places. There are a lot of variables though. Geometry, fit, components, terrain, etc.

Depending on what your motivating factors are the trade-offs may or may not be worth it to you. The Ripmo is a great bike, but it will feel much different than your Rift Zone.

 

[Impetus]

I just sold my Marin Alpine Trail and bought a Ripmo AF. I've also ridden both my buddies bikes: '22 SJ EVO, and a Banshee Prime V3.

IMO, the Ripmo pedals the best out of all of them, by a long shot. It's just heavy. I'd love to afford a V2.

Edit: the Rift zone isnt a "true" single-pivot; that's something like an Orange, or an older Cannondale Prophet. The RZ is really a linkage-driven single-pivot or "faux-bar".

 

[Jayem]

Thanks guys. I was considering the Ripmo because it's available. I'll keep riding what I've got until I can get a demo of something else (I was about 90% sure I would do this anyway, but it's always good to have some opinions, right?)

I was not expecting the Ripmo to be worse, is that because of the extra rear travel?

Yes, more travel (when it's significantly more) is always going to pedal worse IME. Between the same-travel bikes, you can notice a significant difference, but if a suspension design really pedaled that well, we would have guys winning XC races on 130mm travel bikes...at high levels of competition. That just doesn't happen.

 

[Impetus]

Yes, more travel (when it's significantly more) is always going to pedal worse IME. Between the same-travel bikes, you can notice a significant difference, but if a suspension design really pedaled that well, we would have guys winning XC races on 130mm travel bikes...at high levels of competition. That just doesn't happen.

That's generally true, but speaking from experience with both these bikes, the Marin doesn't pedal particularly well (it's not a wallowy pig, but it's not fantastic) to a well-executed example of a well proven DW-link, the difference is gonna be a net positive even with the extra 20mm of rear travel.

 

[Jayem]

That's generally true, but speaking from experience with both these bikes, the Marin doesn't pedal particularly well (it's not a wallowy pig, but it's not fantastic) to a well-executed example of a well proven DW-link, the difference is gonna be a net positive even with the extra 20mm of rear travel.

Have never found that to be true. I'm not saying the DW is a bad pedaling bike, I've had several, still have one, but physical ability means a hell of a lot more here and travel-class bumped up 20+mm is going to have a much bigger effect.

Also, since single-ring setups became predominant, it's a lot easier to design a single-pivot bike with decent pedaling characteristics...with most of the good pedaling of a DW or other virtual pivot design. The Rift Zone actually shows MORE anti-squat at the important points in the travel: Linkage Design

I race all disciplines on dirt, but if it's an XC race, give me a 100 or even 80mm travel bike that pedals "ok" vs. an "excellent" pedaling 120mm one. The 120mm one is always slower and less efficient IME, but the additional travel is nice for ultra-endurance stuff where you get so tired that bike handling becomes a major challenge.

 

[Arm&Hammer]

I prefer single pivot to DW.

 

[Impetus]

Have never found that to be true. I'm not saying the DW is a bad pedaling bike, I've had several, still have one, but physical ability means a hell of a lot more here and travel-class bumped up 20+mm is going to have a much bigger effect.

Also, since single-ring setups became predominant, it's a lot easier to design a single-pivot bike with decent pedaling characteristics...with most of the good pedaling of a DW or other virtual pivot design. The Rift Zone actually shows MORE anti-squat at the important points in the travel: Linkage Design

I race all disciplines on dirt, but if it's an XC race, give me a 100 or even 80mm travel bike that pedals "ok" vs. an "excellent" pedaling 120mm one. The 120mm one is always slower and less efficient IME, but the additional travel is nice for ultra-endurance stuff where you get so tired that bike handling becomes a major challenge.

Youre making generalities, which may or may not be applicable.
Yes, the OP began asking about single-pivot vs DW, but sepcifically is asking about two specific bikes. My post was in response to my 1st hand experience with both a Marin, and a Ripmo.

 

[Sanchofula]

There are better climbing suspensions than a DW, and certainly better than a single pivot.

That said, if you buying a Ripmo for pedaling efficiently uphill ... that's not really what it's about.

Any bike will pedal up a hill, what efficiency means to you depends on what terrain you ride. If you're just climbing flow or a gravel road, then lock it out and who cares.

If you're climbing real tech where the suspension is in constant motion, then yeah, you need to think hard (demo) about what suspension you buy.

That said, it's more about the rider than the bike... I ride a GG Shred and a Canfield Tilt, both are ~35#, they both ride fine up hill; they rip going downhill

 

[matadorCE]

Not all single pivots feel the same just like not all DWLinks feel the same. To me, my Pivot Mach 6 feels definitely superior to my Meta TR, but it's not a night and day type of thing. Best thing to do is to try out what you're looking to buy if possible.

 

[chauzie]

Have never found that to be true. I'm not saying the DW is a bad pedaling bike, I've had several, still have one, but physical ability means a hell of a lot more here and travel-class bumped up 20+mm is going to have a much bigger effect.

Also, since single-ring setups became predominant, it's a lot easier to design a single-pivot bike with decent pedaling characteristics...with most of the good pedaling of a DW or other virtual pivot design. The Rift Zone actually shows MORE anti-squat at the important points in the travel: Linkage Design

I race all disciplines on dirt, but if it's an XC race, give me a 100 or even 80mm travel bike that pedals "ok" vs. an "excellent" pedaling 120mm one. The 120mm one is always slower and less efficient IME, but the additional travel is nice for ultra-endurance stuff where you get so tired that bike handling becomes a major challenge.

Good point about single-chainring use. Single chainring use has simplified and benefited single pivot design much more than the multi-pivot designs.

 

[blk91]

It will probably be a trade off . I've had DW bikes and they are great all arounders but DW itself doesn't really mean a lot. DW kinematics can be skewed to pedaling or descending depending on the bike. Riding a Ripmo and a Slash I noticed almost no difference in pedaling but did find the Slash to be a smoother faster decender and the bike felt immediately stiffer. I don't think it's the best but I've found Horst link to be a better all arounder than most. The La Sal I had now seems to be better all round than the Slash or The Ripmo but it's probably as much geometry as the suspension.

 

[frana]

I like the DW suspension, bikes I've demoed and friends bikes I've ridden. I've never owned one. I've been riding a scott spark for 3 yrs and having remote lockout has been great, fingertip adjustment, quick and easy. I plan on staying with it for now. Mine felt more plush than my friends Ripley, I guess the tradeoff for efficient climbing.

 

[vegen]

Thanks guys. This is all the kind of discussion I was hoping for. It has made it very clear that I need to get some demos before picking something new out.

I'm not an XC racer but the trails I ride the most are most likely classified as XC trails. I mean we have a trail rated as a black diamond but I think that's relative to the rest of trails in the area. And the fact is that I can ride all of the local trails but I don't think I can just go anywhere and ride the most difficult trails. So for my local trails, the Marin is pretty perfect. However I have plans this year to ride at more diverse places. I have a feeling that will make it clear to me where I need to go (if anywhere) with a different bike.

Forgot to add... I'm not concerned about weight in this. I mean I guess I don't want a 40 pound trail bike, but other than that, I prefer function.

 

[blk91]

Thanks guys. This is all the kind of discussion I was hoping for. It has made it very clear that I need to get some demos before picking something new out.

I'm not an XC racer but the trails I ride the most are most likely classified as XC trails. I mean we have a trail rated as a black diamond but I think that's relative to the rest of trails in the area. And the fact is that I can ride all of the local trails but I don't think I can just go anywhere and ride the most difficult trails. So for my local trails, the Marin is pretty perfect. However I have plans this year to ride at more diverse places. I have a feeling that will make it clear to me where I need to go (if anywhere) with a different bike.

You might also just be okay with a different rear shock. If you ride someplace with more aggressive riding ad a volume spacer if there's a lot of climbing get something with some kind of platforming or a climb switch. The rift zone is a pretty flexible bike and reviews really well. I definitely ride an Endurbro bike for no reason and was faster on a 120-130 bike when riding local blue/black trails, it was also bit more fun and engaging.