[wadester]

Hello all,

I'm hoping that someone here can tell me what licensing options are available for dw-link, specifically for use in a one-off custom frame. Not that the IH offerings aren't good, but I got bit by the 29er bug - and despite what some say about rigid or hardtails they are not for me. And I learned some time back that what I call "short link 4bar" systems are the only ones that work: 2nd yr Schwinn Rocket88, RM ETSX are tested and true - and from reviews and test rides the DW-link is as good or better (especially if you can "buy" the tech from the designer and get it right vs "borrowing" a design)

If _dw or someone who knows the deal could enlighten me, I would appreciate it.

 

[TheSherpa]

Hello all,

I'm hoping that someone here can tell me what licensing options are available for dw-link, specifically for use in a one-off custom frame. Not that the IH offerings aren't good, but I got bit by the 29er bug - and despite what some say about rigid or hardtails they are not for me. And I learned some time back that what I call "short link 4bar" systems are the only ones that work: 2nd yr Schwinn Rocket88, RM ETSX are tested and true - and from reviews and test rides the DW-link is as good or better (especially if you can "buy" the tech from the designer and get it right vs "borrowing" a design)

If _dw or someone who knows the deal could enlighten me, I would appreciate it.

It would most likely be a good idea to email DW himself. I guarantee you he won't want to discuss it on an open forum. And beyond that, talk to Indy Fab about a 29er DW.

 

[Speedub.Nate]

...talk to Indy Fab about a 29er DW.

Damn, I was just in the kitchen washing dishes and listening to the radio when I got an indescribable tingle in my frontal lobe and had to drop everything and run to the computer.

Have you got some info to share? Or is this just an edumacated guess as to who will finally sow this forbidden seed?

 

[Appendage]

You got some serious money?

Damn, I was just in the kitchen washing dishes and listening to the radio when I got an indescribable tingle in my frontal lobe and had to drop everything and run to the computer.

Have you got some info to share? Or is this just an edumacated guess as to who will finally sow this forbidden seed?

IF wants $4k for their 26 DW link frame. I wouldn't expect the 29er to be any cheaper.

 

[Speedub.Nate]

IF wants $4k for their 26 DW link frame. I wouldn't expect the 29er to be any cheaper.

At this point, I just want to see it created. Proof of concept.

 

[wadester]

Since enquiring minds want to know....

Firstly, _dw is not that easy to just email. Tried his mail via mtbr (does not allow), dw-link website does not have contact info (anymore). So I thought that this would be a gentle way to get in touch. I'm sure that a bunch 'O folks would like to know about a 1-off license, and maybe that's why _dw is not so easy to reach?

I did check with IF, and they have their minds on a dw29er - but it is apparently back burner. And I seem to recall a posting from IH saying they do not intend to do a 29er. Ibis also has a license, perhaps I'll bug them next

This leaves the DIY approach. Apparently nobody but _dw has the info I seek. Since IH, IF, and Ibis (maybe name must start with I?) have licenses it is possible and contact info is out there somewhere. If this don't work we move on to the next.

 

[TheSherpa]

Have you got some info to share? Or is this just an edumacated guess as to who will finally sow this forbidden seed?

You know when you just get one of those feelings, and you kind of just think thats the way it's gunna be, well thats what I got. But, I also know that with the right amount of cash, anything is possible.

 

[_dw]

Hello all,

I'm hoping that someone here can tell me what licensing options are available for dw-link, specifically for use in a one-off custom frame. Not that the IH offerings aren't good, but I got bit by the 29er bug - and despite what some say about rigid or hardtails they are not for me. And I learned some time back that what I call "short link 4bar" systems are the only ones that work: 2nd yr Schwinn Rocket88, RM ETSX are tested and true - and from reviews and test rides the DW-link is as good or better (especially if you can "buy" the tech from the designer and get it right vs "borrowing" a design)

If _dw or someone who knows the deal could enlighten me, I would appreciate it.

Hi Wadester,

I think that it is really cool that you want to use dw-link, that is an awesome complement, thank you!

Right now, Worldwide Cycle holds the exclusive license to dw-link technology. Together we have selected two additional top-notch partners to work with, Independent Fabrication and Ibis.

At this time, there are no individual licenses available. One of the reasons for that is the sheer amount of (my) time that it takes to get a dw-link suspension frame from the concept to reality. With all of the testing and iterations, 1.5 to 2 years is the norm. There is just a huge amount of design work that goes into making the system both simple and effective, and every bike's system is completely different based on its geometry, intended use, and even frame material. Variations of less than 1mm can make huge changes in performance. It is a fair amoutn of work to get a system to the point from paper to cutting metal.

Personally, I suggest working out a nice single pivot design if you are going to build a frame. Work to understand truly how the system is working, and be very careful what you read on the internet. Remeber Newton's third law. That is the key.

Good luck!

Dave
www.dw-link.com

 

[ashwinearl]

What about having a custom builder 'copy' and existing DW link bike

At this time, there are no individual licenses available. www.dw-link.com

Just thinking outloud.

I am a DW link cult member too. But the bike I really want doesn't exist. Azure with a longer top tube and built lighter customized for my lighter bodyweight. The IF is closest to this but is out of the price range. The Anthem fits this bill, but it would feel like blasphemy to get it.

Could I take an Azure front triangle and have a custom builder make a one-off front triangle with a longer top tube and lighter frame and use the existing DW link rear triangle on it?

 

[_dw]

Just thinking outloud.

I am a DW link cult member too. But the bike I really want doesn't exist. Azure with a longer top tube and built lighter customized for my lighter bodyweight. The IF is closest to this but is out of the price range. The Anthem fits this bill, but it would feel like blasphemy to get it.

Could I take an Azure front triangle and have a custom builder make a one-off front triangle with a longer top tube and lighter frame and use the existing DW link rear triangle on it?

Short answer, no. There are 3 pivot points on the front triangle, and it is critical that they are in the EXACT correct location to make the bike work. This means within less than 0.2mm of each other and the factory specifications. Any custom builder is going to have a hard time hitting those tolerances without purpose built (read expensive) tooling.

All in all, the IF bike is probably what you are looking for.

A word about the Azure. The Azure is built to be light, but not a waif. It uses some very thin butted tubing and intricately machined parts, but you can ride it and you don't have to worry about developing cracks after one season. On other really lightweight XC race bikes, there are weight limits and durability issues. Maybe for the next incarnation of Azure you will see a weight limit bike, but current bike is designed for the trail riding, everyday XC racing, and adventure racing crowd where riders demand light weight, but don't want a throwaway bike.

Have you played with a different stem length, seat position, or bar height on your bike? Those adjustments can have a massive effect on the bike's handling and feel. If you haven't given it a try, thats a great place to start.

Hope this helps
Dave

 

[ashwinearl]

Short answer, no. There are 3 pivot points on the front triangle, and it is critical that they are in the EXACT correct location to make the bike work. This means within less than 0.2mm of each other and the factory specifications. Any custom builder is going to have a hard time hitting those tolerances without purpose built (read expensive) tooling.

All in all, the IF bike is probably what you are looking for.

A word about the Azure. The Azure is built to be light, but not a waif. It uses some very thin butted tubing and intricately machined parts, but you can ride it and you don't have to worry about developing cracks after one season. On other really lightweight XC race bikes, there are weight limits and durability issues. Maybe for the next incarnation of Azure you will see a weight limit bike, but current bike is designed for the trail riding, everyday XC racing, and adventure racing crowd where riders demand light weight, but don't want a throwaway bike.

Dave

Thanks Dave.

This weight weenism is a pointless affliction. I KNOW that the 1lb difference between an HP and the Azure is NOT what makes the Azure a faster bike. And I KNOW that weight difference in static weight between the Azure and some other XC bike isn't going to be the deciding point for a race.

Quite interesting about .2mm tolerances. And quite a lot of kudos to IH for being able to manufacturer it at the affordable prices that they have.

 

[wadester]

Hi Wadester,

I think that it is really cool that you want to use dw-link, that is an awesome complement, thank you!

Right now, Worldwide Cycle holds the exclusive license to dw-link technology. Together we have selected two additional top-notch partners to work with, Independent Fabrication and Ibis.

At this time, there are no individual licenses available. One of the reasons for that is the sheer amount of (my) time that it takes to get a dw-link suspension frame from the concept to reality. With all of the testing and iterations, 1.5 to 2 years is the norm. There is just a huge amount of design work that goes into making the system both simple and effective, and every bike's system is completely different based on its geometry, intended use, and even frame material. Variations of less than 1mm can make huge changes in performance. It is a fair amoutn of work to get a system to the point from paper to cutting metal.

Personally, I suggest working out a nice single pivot design if you are going to build a frame. Work to understand truly how the system is working, and be very careful what you read on the internet. Remeber Newton's third law. That is the key.

Good luck!

Dave
www.dw-link.com

Hello DW, thanks much for the reply. So a "license" for dw-link is really "hire dw to apply his (very excellent) knowledge to your product". I was starting to think that might be the case. And even so, I knew that the longer/heavier 29er rear would be a new design - just didn't realize how detailed the process might be!

So, before I whoop out my linkage analysis spreadsheet and my mechanics and kinematics books - could you tell us if a DW29 is in that 2yr pipeline????