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"El Whatever"
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all!!

I'm bored. So I'll share a few pics of the Dual Flow rebound unit from a Revelation that I put on my Pike.

It rides better indeed. Not a night and day difference, but it's there. Feels smoother overall. The faster you go, the better it feels.

I think the Dual Flow damper when used with a standard MoCo damper produces a bit more compression damping as well, but I have very little ride time on really gnar terrain and it will remain like that for quite some time.

The fork takes repetitive hits and high speeds events much better than the standard MoCo.

Here's what you get with the kit from RS (except from the Monarch Adapter)



Compared to the old MoCo Rebound unit, there's a 10mm difference, but so sar, no interferences. For good measure, I reduced oil volume like 3-5cc's as there will be more shaft inside the damper. Maybe it's just in my head, but seems to be working properly.

This rebound unit is much better made than the original one on the Pike and it looks of equal quality as on other manufacturer's forks. The seal head on the Pike is more robust and also heavier. But by using the same sealing o-ring I don't see any advantage on the heavier unit. Only advantage would be if you used a DU guided seal head like Push does.



Here's what the Rebound damper looks on the rebound side. There's a shim in there for the nonbelievers.



Here's how both dampers look from close on the "compression" side, which basically just works as a "check" valve directing oil flow through the free bleed and the rebound ports on the piston and blowing open on compression.



However... I see a lot of potential for Frankendamping this thing.

The compression blow off could easily be replaced with a shim stack and get rid of the MoCo Unit just like Renegade already did, but I think his mod was using a Push damper.

Or you can simply preload the blowoff, make the common bleed smaller, bigger, you name it.

Recommendable upgrade for a Pike if you want to breathe some new life in that puppy... and a point in favor of Push who are already pumping out an assembly like this but even more developed.

Push could easily dump the MoCo if they wanted too but that would leave you without compression adjustments or lock out... even if the shaft is thick enough to house two concentric shafts to adjust compression and rebound from the bottom of the fork leg. ;)

Cheers!!
Warp
 

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moaaar shimz
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Huh, so if I read right you are a big weight weenie and want/tinker with the idea of removing the MoCo and just use a dual flow rebound damper modified to function as a compression and rebound damper?

I don't know how much oil could be metered through to archieve acceptable compression and rebound damping. What about the hysteresis, wouldn't it increase it? :p hahahahah

Looks cool Warp. You should ride that puppy in the Ajusco and test the Nicolai properly.
 

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If this works in your Pike, than it should also work in my Recon 351 Solo Air 130mm (same uppers, copmresion unit and old rebound). Very nice pictures also.

Can you tell me how much did you pay for the parts, since my LBS would not tell me, because they don't approve such modifications.

keen said:
60-70$ for the Revelation 150mm BB rebound damper.
Thanks a lot for the quick reply :)
 

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Vuco said:
If this works in your Pike, than it should also work in my Recon 351 Solo Air 130mm (same uppers, copmresion unit and old rebound). Very nice pictures also.

Can you tell me how much did you pay for the parts, since my LBS would not tell me, because they don't approve such modifications.
60-70$ for the Revelation 150mm BB rebound damper.
 

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Vuco said:
If this works in your Pike, than it should also work in my Recon 351 Solo Air 130mm (same uppers, copmresion unit and old rebound). Very nice pictures also.

Can you tell me how much did you pay for the parts, since my LBS would not tell me, because they don't approve such modifications.
i think retail is around $90 and wow, you seriously need to find another LBS to support.

edit: sniped by keen!
 

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"El Whatever"
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
tacubaya said:
Huh, so if I read right you are a big weight weenie and want/tinker with the idea of removing the MoCo and just use a dual flow rebound damper modified to function as a compression and rebound damper?

I don't know how much oil could be metered through to archieve acceptable compression and rebound damping. What about the hysteresis, wouldn't it increase it? :p hahahahah

Looks cool Warp. You should ride that puppy in the Ajusco and test the Nicolai properly.
Not out weight-weeniesm... I wouldn't be riding a Pike if I'm thinking about grams. Anything less than 2 kilos of fork is for total pussers. :D

But yeah, the idea would be to get the rebound and compression on the same piston or at least induce some shim damping glory into the MoCo damper. I don't know why it would increase my hysteria.... ;) :lol: :lol:

Yeah, I want to give this thing a proper Chuck Norris scrotum shrinking inducing ride to this baby but my local turf just draws huge vacuum when it comes to MTB. I was trying to do that at Ajusco-Cuerna, but you know how it went.

Vuco... yeah, somewhere between 60 and 90 depending on where you ask and your LBS sucks. They would at least make the disclaimer but leave up to you to spend your money on it.

And talking about leaving to waste your money on it... I must let you know that your 130mm fork may be at the very limit or even not compatible. When properly assembled, there is no contact between the new rebound unit and the old MoCo at full travel. BUT... if I push the rebound rod a few mm's further in (when the lowers are not installed), I get a contact between the rebound unit and the base of the MoCo spring tube.

Beware of that. It works for a Pike. I can't vouch for a shorter fork. You could end up with the rebound rod knocking on the Floodgate valve.
 

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moaaar shimz
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Warp said:
Not out weight-weeniesm... I wouldn't be riding a Pike if I'm thinking about grams. Anything less than 2 kilos of fork is for total pussers. :D

But yeah, the idea would be to get the rebound and compression on the same piston or at least induce some shim damping glory into the MoCo damper. I don't know why it would increase my hysteria.... ;) :lol: :lol:

Yeah, I want to give this thing a proper Chuck Norris scrotum shrinking inducing ride to this baby but my local turf just draws huge vacuum when it comes to MTB. I was trying to do that at Ajusco-Cuerna, but you know how it went.

Vuco... yeah, somewhere between 60 and 90 depending on where you ask and your LBS sucks. They would at least make the disclaimer but leave up to you to spend your money on it.

And talking about leaving to waste your money on it... I must let you know that your 130mm fork may be at the very limit or even not compatible. When properly assembled, there is no contact between the new rebound unit and the old MoCo at full travel. BUT... if I push the rebound rod a few mm's further in (when the lowers are not installed), I get a contact between the rebound unit and the base of the MoCo spring tube.

Beware of that. It works for a Pike. I can't vouch for a shorter fork. You could end up with the rebound rod knocking on the Floodgate valve.
Shim the fack out the MoCo damper!! Default shimstack is not very good.

Yeah, Ajusco-Cuerna was a pu$$y route, everyone got disappointed (except the newbs that were in the group)

Maybe you can also change the shim (or shims.. can't see in the pic) of the rebound damper to match your weight? Shouldn't be a problem for ya.
 

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My Pike has a Reba MoCo unit (black) that replaced my original red MoCo unit. The Reba unit is shorter so there is no issue w/ contact by a long shot. I was really impressed w/ the BB rebound damper.
 

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I was thinking about doing this same thing. Thanks for confirming it works.
As far as the reshim, I would suggest preloading the check valve, Its also referred to the mid valve, and I guess it helps with dive and large step (down) impacts. I think that a full shim stack on the compression side would be troublesome, as cavitation will occur on high speed hits. You would also have to use your rebound knob for both low speed rebound and compression.
Now if we could get a DH style MC damper for the Pike....
 

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If you want all damping in the lower shaft (i.e. no upper compression damper) then you need a lot of internal pressure to prevent cavitation.
Just like a monotube rear shock.
 

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Warp said:
Vuco... yeah, somewhere between 60 and 90 depending on where you ask and your LBS sucks. They would at least make the disclaimer but leave up to you to spend your money on it.

And talking about leaving to waste your money on it... I must let you know that your 130mm fork may be at the very limit or even not compatible. When properly assembled, there is no contact between the new rebound unit and the old MoCo at full travel. BUT... if I push the rebound rod a few mm's further in (when the lowers are not installed), I get a contact between the rebound unit and the base of the MoCo spring tube.

Beware of that. It works for a Pike. I can't vouch for a shorter fork. You could end up with the rebound rod knocking on the Floodgate valve.
Nevertheless, thanks a lot for the input. I'm aware that my fork is 20mm shorter than a RVL or 10mm from a Pike.

One last thing, can you please tell me how is the rebound valve attached on the rebound rod ? Is it soldiered or bolted on ? I had an idea to just replace the valve with a new one that could be shimmed, therefore having a high speed rebound (or Dual flow like RS calls it).

P.S. My LBS is the only one here that sells and repairs Rock Shock stuff. This is the first time that they were negative about something. But, they are great in servicing RS forks and shocks, so, all in all they are pretty good. :)
 

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Vuco said:
One last thing, can you please tell me how is the rebound valve attached on the rebound rod ? Is it soldiered or bolted on ? I had an idea to just replace the valve with a new one that could be shimmed, therefore having a high speed rebound (or Dual flow like RS calls it).
It looks like they are pressed/crimped on. I took mine apart a while a go to see if I could just replace the piston, but it was not as easy as unscrewing a nut and taking the piston off. The damper is pretty much one piece unless you want to start cutting.
 

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"El Whatever"
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Vuco said:
Nevertheless, thanks a lot for the input. I'm aware that my fork is 20mm shorter than a RVL or 10mm from a Pike.

One last thing, can you please tell me how is the rebound valve attached on the rebound rod ? Is it soldiered or bolted on ? I had an idea to just replace the valve with a new one that could be shimmed, therefore having a high speed rebound (or Dual flow like RS calls it).

P.S. My LBS is the only one here that sells and repairs Rock Shock stuff. This is the first time that they were negative about something. But, they are great in servicing RS forks and shocks, so, all in all they are pretty good. :)
As can be seen in the pics, the rebound piston is actually crimped on the shaft. You could remove it and then reattach it with a dowel pin or something.

It looks like the old piston bolt and the new one are different, but I'm not sure. I didn't try to make any more old pieces to work on the new assembly or the other way around.

Scott... as Dougal and you mention, it's not doable or requires major mods (not worthy) to use the piston to give you both compression and rebound damping. Supposing you get rid of the cavitation, you still need a concentric shaft to be able to tune both compression and rebound and maybe one or two more mods here and there.

However, using it as a mid valve is perfectly doable. However, I have very little use for it as my fork has already very little tendency to dive on said conditions.

That being said, being able to access the rebound and re-shim the heck out of it is a very interesting solution and not really expensive.
 

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Could you use a Reba BB MoCo damper and a Revelation BB rebound assembly in the Pike to essentially make it a BB fork?
 

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mrgto said:
Could you use a Reba BB MoCo damper and a Revelation BB rebound assembly in the Pike to essentially make it a BB fork?
The Revelation 150 BB rebound fits as well as the Reba standard MoCo unit.
 

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Warp, again me :D. Today I serviced my Recon 351 130mm, and measured the rebound rod to 18,5cm long (from top to bottom). Can you measure your old rebound rod (since you probably don't have your new one outside the fork :)) if you haven't sold it ?

Thanks in advance :)
 

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Okay, so oil can flow fairly freely through the compression check valve. What is it then that forces oil through the MoCo unit at the top of the fork?

Is it just the oil displacement from the (silver) pushrod shaft?
 
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