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or die try'n
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Trying to figure a way to convert a 15mm through front hub to QR. According to DT, the 350 hub is a stand alone 15mm axle due to design. The 15mm axle goes all the way through and directly supports the 15mm bearings and 15mm end caps. I have seen the Mavic 15mm to QR endcap adapters which will slip into the DT encaps, but they do not go deep enough into the hub to catch the bearings, and so the wheel is supported by the encaps alone. I was wondering if I took a 15mm axle and cut i down to the inner dimension of the remaining space (between the Mavic adapters), this would tie the bearings into the DT endcaps. Then the Mavic adapters would support the DT encaps which are centered and connected to the bearings. ANY THOUGHTS?

Apparently these adapters work with the CHUB Hub because the 15mm axle goes all the way through a set of 20mm bearings, but the 350's are different.

Also I wonder how the extra width of about 2 - 3mm of the adapters will affect the front fork operation. The 350 hub is 100mm and the adapters although thin still add width.

I have also seen other brand rim truing adapters for 15mm that go deep enough catch the bearings, but their lip is about 3mm each, and so I know that extra 6mm won't fit.

Maybe I can shave the DT endcaps by the needed overage dimension?:madman:
 

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buy a dt 9mm rws, and then have a machine shop make up an alloy sleeve that is 9mm ID and 15mm OD. I've used this system before and it works brilliantly, costs about $20 for the sleeve, and the RWS gives much greater stiffness. Also you can just remove the sleeve if you want to go back to 15mm in the future.
 

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or die try'n
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
That was one of my thoughts also.

1 - I was looking at cutting my Fox 15 skewer to 100mm and then reaming out the center to 9mm or 11/32" and using the DT 9mm RWS, but I would be wasting a $95 Fox skewer.

2 - I could buy the DT RWS 15mm skewer for $45 and cut it down to 100mm, but I dont know the inner diameter of one as is stock? Does anyone out there have one that they could measure? As long as the inner hole is smaller than 9mm, it can be reamed out.

3 - Pay a machinist like you say, but I will have to investigate cost.

Also - I would be adding the extra weight of the new inner 15 - 9mm axle, big deal maybe 40 grams!

:madman:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I eventually did it.

Part 1 - I bought a set of those 15mm truing stand adapters at the Path in Tustin. They are 3.5mm wide with a 15mm shaft. I shaved 3.5 mm off of each DT SWISS 15mm endcap. The truing stand adapters slide right in and are tight. They are also long enough to catch the bearings for support. Once the 5mm QR is tightened they were true as having original unavailable endcaps.

Part 2 - I bought another set of adapters, but this time I painstakingly center drilled them to 9mm exactly. This is best left to someone with a very accurate drill press. The 5mm nipple and 5mm QR are completely gone now. Instead I'm using the 9mm DT Swiss RWS thru Bolt. Even better and even stiffer.

Good Luck
 

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I know this is an old thread, but was wondering if you have any long term assessment of the truing stand adapters in your 350 hub? I made the mistake of using the Mavic plugs, and destroyed the end caps on my front wheel on the first ride this past weekend. A really helpful guy at DT Swiss swapped messages with me today,and I have replacement endcaps (and bearings, for good measure) coming tomorrow. I initially wanted to swap the bearings out with the 9mm bearings and axle, but was told that the bearing spacing differs between the 15mm hubshell and the 9mm hubshell - so no swapping of internals...

Here are the adapters that I am considering for my next go-round - UDG Truing Stand Adapters at Price Point. Are these the same ones that you used? I can't find a dimension listing to show how deep they are, to be sure I don't have a repeat of my Mavic experience. Any feedback as to how well they worked, and if they have stood up to what you've put them through.

Of course there is a machine shop in town that I plan to call tomorrow to get an estimate for what it would cost me to get a piece of stainless machined to fit all the way through the hub, with 9mm nubs on the ends for my quick release (5mm DT Swiss RWS).

Thanks in advance for your feedback!
 

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I know this is an old thread, but was wondering if you have any long term assessment of the truing stand adapters in your 350 hub? I made the mistake of using the Mavic plugs, and destroyed the end caps on my front wheel on the first ride this past weekend. A really helpful guy at DT Swiss swapped messages with me today,and I have replacement endcaps (and bearings, for good measure) coming tomorrow. I initially wanted to swap the bearings out with the 9mm bearings and axle, but was told that the bearing spacing differs between the 15mm hubshell and the 9mm hubshell - so no swapping of internals...

Here are the adapters that I am considering for my next go-round - UDG Truing Stand Adapters at Price Point. Are these the same ones that you used? I can't find a dimension listing to show how deep they are, to be sure I don't have a repeat of my Mavic experience. Any feedback as to how well they worked, and if they have stood up to what you've put them through.

Of course there is a machine shop in town that I plan to call tomorrow to get an estimate for what it would cost me to get a piece of stainless machined to fit all the way through the hub, with 9mm nubs on the ends for my quick release (5mm DT Swiss RWS).

Thanks in advance for your feedback!
Are you thinking you can get away with using a truing stand adaptor to actually ride your wheel? Crazy talk. Plus those adaptors don't work all that great for their intended purpose either.
 

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Are you thinking you can get away with using a truing stand adaptor to actually ride your wheel? Crazy talk. Plus those adaptors don't work all that great for their intended purpose either.
Maybe I misunderstood getjohn's comments above (part 1), but that is what it sounds like he did...

The Mavic plugs won't work on the DT 350 hubs - I know. I broke both end caps this weekend on my first ride. They don't go in far enough to engage the bearing, so all of the load is being carried by just the end cap. Actually the load is being technically carried by the dust covers (about 2 mm wide). Impressively enough, mine lasted about 6 miles before failing.... New caps and seals from DT Swiss were ordered yesterday, and I'm going to have a machine shop make me a 15mm OD sleeve with a 9mm ID (100mm long). I'm going to use a DT Swiss 9mm thru-bolt to hold it all together... I just have my fingers crossed that the hub isn't scored or anything to prevent the new seals from working. I did get new bearings for good measure...

If you don't believe me about the Mavic plugs on these hubs, take a look at the technical manual for the hub on DT Swiss's website. It clearly shows that the end cap does not engage the bearing. I'm on my work PC, or else I'd upload the picture of the failed pieces (with Mavic plugs still installed).
 

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Maybe I misunderstood getjohn's comments above (part 1), but that is what it sounds like he did...

The Mavic plugs won't work on the DT 350 hubs - I know. I broke both end caps this weekend on my first ride. They don't go in far enough to engage the bearing, so all of the load is being carried by just the end cap. Actually the load is being technically carried by the dust covers (about 2 mm wide). Impressively enough, mine lasted about 6 miles before failing.... New caps and seals from DT Swiss were ordered yesterday, and I'm going to have a machine shop make me a 15mm OD sleeve with a 9mm ID (100mm long). I'm going to use a DT Swiss 9mm thru-bolt to hold it all together... I just have my fingers crossed that the hub isn't scored or anything to prevent the new seals from working. I did get new bearings for good measure...

If you don't believe me about the Mavic plugs on these hubs, take a look at the technical manual for the hub on DT Swiss's website. It clearly shows that the end cap does not engage the bearing. I'm on my work PC, or else I'd upload the picture of the failed pieces (with Mavic plugs still installed).
Well that is the first hub that I've heard of not working with the Mavic plugs...good to know
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yes, those are the same adapters, and its not crazy talk. The critical part of using the adapters on the 350 hub is having one that reaches far enough into the hub to catch the bearing, because the endcaps are unsupported like some other hubs. The adapter flange is about 3.5mm wide, so you must shave 3.5 mm off of each of the 350 endcaps. This will only leave about 1/4" on one of the endcaps, but don't worry because they only act as spacers anyway. The new truing stand adapters you mentioned will now become the axle seat, and because they are 15 mm they will center the endcaps and be long enough to catch the bearings. They work fine as is with a QR skewer. If you plan on using a 9mm RWS through skewer you will need to drill them out or have them machined in which the hub seat on the fork will now be the skewer itself. Very difficult to drill accurately without producing a wobble, so if you want to do it yourself drill out slightly smallr than 9mm and use a round file to fine tune. If you place the file in a vice and spin the adapter on it you will see the high low spots which will help you identify where to file.

Been running these for 2 years with a 9 thru RWS skewer. Never had an issue, bearings still nice, no rubbing.

Be advised, once you file down your 350 encaps, they will need replaced to convert back to 15.

John
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
No they won't!

Those Mavic caps will only work on 15mm hubs that have supported endcaps. The DT 350hubs do NOT have supported endcaps and you will ruin the endcaps with a few feet. FYI if you ruined your endcaps and can't find them, check out the 370 endcaps, pretty sure they are the same.

John

These will work with any QR15 hub, cheap and easy

Mavic QR Plug- Fits 15mm Front Axle at Price Point
 

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I must have had my 5mm RWS cranked down pretty tight because I actually made it a few miles before my end caps and dust covers blew up. :eek: I don't think the bearings are toast, but we'll see in a few days when the new ones arrive.

By the way, DT Swiss customer service in Colorado is great (David is, at least). The guy was very, very responsive to all of my questions. The end caps and dust covers were $20. I got an extra set of bearings and the spacer tube for another $20 just in case the ones in the hub were damaged. I got the wheels for a steal, so I'm still not worried.

Anybody looking for a slightly used set of Mavic 15mm to QR plugs? I got a set I'll sell you cheap!
 

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Yes, those are the same adapters, and its not crazy talk. The critical part of using the adapters on the 350 hub is having one that reaches far enough into the hub to catch the bearing, because the endcaps are unsupported like some other hubs. The adapter flange is about 3.5mm wide, so you must shave 3.5 mm off of each of the 350 endcaps. This will only leave about 1/4" on one of the endcaps, but don't worry because they only act as spacers anyway. The new truing stand adapters you mentioned will now become the axle seat, and because they are 15 mm they will center the endcaps and be long enough to catch the bearings. They work fine as is with a QR skewer. If you plan on using a 9mm RWS through skewer you will need to drill them out or have them machined in which the hub seat on the fork will now be the skewer itself. Very difficult to drill accurately without producing a wobble, so if you want to do it yourself drill out slightly smallr than 9mm and use a round file to fine tune. If you place the file in a vice and spin the adapter on it you will see the high low spots which will help you identify where to file.

Been running these for 2 years with a 9 thru RWS skewer. Never had an issue, bearings still nice, no rubbing.

Be advised, once you file down your 350 encaps, they will need replaced to convert back to 15.

John
Why would you do all that when you can just have a metal 15mm axle machined for under $40 USD. Any place with a lathe and a drill press should be able to make it.

You method may work, but seems far from ideal.
 

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According to the engineer at DT Swiss that helped me, there is no way to get it to work. I could get bearings to fit, but the axle would be the issue. He mentioned that with some creative machining I might be able to get it to work, but no standard parts would make it possible.

As promised, here is a picture of the endcaps and dust covers from my front hub. I believe the one on the left is the brake side - I believe it failed first. I did not take a picture of the hub shell, but from the brief inspection I did, it appeared to be ok still. We'll see when the new parts arrive if it all goes back together well.



You can see the Mavic plugs still installed, and how they don't barely insert half the depth of the endcaps, much less engage the bearings. I should have looked at the technical drawing of the hub before trying this solution....
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Not the same as a 240. The bearing on the 350 has a 15mm inner which fits the 15 axle directly without wiggle. The endcaps are two piece with a press fit retaining ring holding on a loose endcap. The 240 version has an axle that comes thru the bearings and the endcaps press diectly over the inner axle. Two completely different and incompatible systems.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Still usable, see below.

The endcaps are only used as spacers and compression of the outer bearing. The hollow axle tube inside the hub provides the clamping distance of the inner bearing. The damaged rings are only used to hold the endcaps from falling off when the wheel is removed. In fact there are no seals used with this hub, so a dab of grease keeps water and grit away from the bearings. Clean up those end caps and shorten them by 3.5mm and they will still work with the adapters, as long as the bearing surface area wasn't damaged. The retaining rings are shot, so the endcaps will be held in place by the adapters once pressed in as they have 2 o-rings to keep them tight. Once you run the skewer througfh everything will center up without interference.

BTW- I couldn't find a shop in So Cal that would machine an axle for less than a C-note. It has to be 15mm outer, 9mm inner through, and 100mm long or preferrably 99 so that it won't hinder the endcaps from tightening fully. It's the 9mm perfectly centered hole that is the cost killer.

According to the engineer at DT Swiss that helped me, there is no way to get it to work. I could get bearings to fit, but the axle would be the issue. He mentioned that with some creative machining I might be able to get it to work, but no standard parts would make it possible.

As promised, here is a picture of the endcaps and dust covers from my front hub. I believe the one on the left is the brake side - I believe it failed first. I did not take a picture of the hub shell, but from the brief inspection I did, it appeared to be ok still. We'll see when the new parts arrive if it all goes back together well.



You can see the Mavic plugs still installed, and how they don't barely insert half the depth of the endcaps, much less engage the bearings. I should have looked at the technical drawing of the hub before trying this solution....
 

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Not the same as a 240. The bearing on the 350 has a 15mm inner which fits the 15 axle directly without wiggle. The endcaps are two piece with a press fit retaining ring holding on a loose endcap. The 240 version has an axle that comes thru the bearings and the endcaps press diectly over the inner axle. Two completely different and incompatible systems.
While that is true about how the 350 is set up the 240 uses the same bearings and according to DTs website the 240 centerlock hub is convertible to qr15 so when set up that way it must be the same if not very similar. There just isn't room for it to be set up any different using the same bearings. The question is if the bearings are the same distance apart. I honestly don't see why they would make different hub bodies for essentially the same hub.
 
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