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honourablegeorge said:
What do i need to conver these rims to tubeless? Can I run my non-UST Schwalbe Nobby Nics (2.4s) and just use the standard Stan's kit below?
There are a few options:
1. Ghetto tubeless
2. Stan's
3. DT Swiss kit

1. I don't trust ghetto anything on my trailbike, too much at stake. (I almost did get the Low-Rider Green pain on the Terremoto, but decided against it.) I do have a ghetto setup on a pumptrack/neighborhood hardtail, so I have set that up in the past.
2. IMO the Stan's is probably just as good as the DT kit. I didn't like how the Stan's site was a bit ambiguous as to how to install with the DT kit - you might need another layer of tape? hmm...
3. I purchased/installed the DT kit a few weeks ago. Looking to try a "real" UST setup.

Here are the benefits of the DT kit as I see it: The rim strip is grooved to allow you to seat the bead of the tire in the groove, greatly reducing air volume of the tire, which allows for quick inflation with a FLOOR PUMP.

That is key, as I don't have a compressor, and there is no way I'd go to a station to change tires. I wanted to try the UST thing for the "locking" bead...well, your DT 5.1 rim has the lip on the edge of the rim either way, the DT kit doesn't change the rim profile in that regard, see second pic below. Pretty much any tire with a solid bead (esp. wire beads) will "lock" into that little lip.


Most tires have a pretty solid bead, apparently different mfgs/beads have different properties (of course). Maxxis seem to have an almost-UST bead so you can run them like USTs. I have run Maxxis HighRollers, Spec. Enduros UST and have an Eskar 2bliss to try. I have changed several tires/tried removing and reinstalling and it has been easy and do-able with just hands and a floor pump. I have since added sealant.

Now as for running your normal NNs tubeless, you might have to run a bit higher pressure to get the same feel, since the sidewalls of non-USTs are not as stout as USTs (or as stout as the same tire with a tube for support), so they will deform a bit more under load, which can contribute to that squirmy, rolling feeling.

I went from 2.35 Nevegals DTC Kev bead at 32psi to a Maxxis Ignitor UST 2.35 and I think I pinch flatted the tire on the first ride running 31psi. The tire was too squirmy, but I had been sold on the "run 10% lower pressure" and figured it might be normal. Needles to say, I was pretty pissed coming off of a run of tubed flats to USTs only to flat...Since that wasn't the tire I wanted to start with and the shop knew that, they replaced it for me. A side note: the Maxxis 2.35 was really a 2.25, and I think that, as a clyde, I need the higher volume tire so I did replace it with a 2.35 Eskar...but mounted a 2.4 Enduro in the mean time to get me by. I haven't mounted up that other one yet, just had a baby boy and am off the bike for a week or two until I adjust!

I think that about sums it up as for my experience, glad to help!
 

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I would look to the DT Swiss (Eclipse) kit for the 5.1.

The 5.1 does not have great benches to support the bead, and the DT Swiss kit adds the inside ridges to the benches to help keep the bead in place (like a UST rim). At least that is what I can see in the pics.

Stan's does not have the ridges and requires tape build up to improve the shape of the benches. But it is still no replacement for those bead supporting ridges.

P
 

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I would consider the Maxxis rimstrips http://www.maxxis.com/products/bicycle/product_detail.asp?id=218. They are discontinuing these, but they are a whole lot cheaper than the Eclipse/DT or Stans strips (assuming the one they have available would fit the 5.1). They have the bead lip like the Eclipse system so it is easy to inflate the tire. I usually trim off the sides because I feel that the portion of the strip that goes over the bead hook is unnecessary. I use the A3s on my 4.1ds.
 

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Mr.P said:
The 5.1 does not have great benches to support the bead, and the DT Swiss kit adds the inside ridges to the benches to help keep the bead in place (like a UST rim). At least that is what I can see in the pics.
It seems to me that the bead pops up and out away from the center of the rim, with the bead coming into contact with the fold over- of the rim that is evident in the rim profile pic, or the 2nd pic above. The "benches" I think you are referring to are along the flat portion of the rim, where the spoke-holes protrude (please let me know if this is right), are only to allow for easy inflation. Once properly installed, the rim strip sits contained on this flat portion and doesn't creep up into the sidewall, like you can see it doing here:

That pic was taken before the rim strip was evenly distributed by taking a screwdriver and evening out the tension across the entire wheel. This is a bit hard to capture in words, but when you put the rim strip on, you have it seated on one side, then stretch it to fit over onto the rim. This caused the rim strip to be more streched in some places (and therefor thinner) and not uniform in dispersion and shape. Per the instructions, I simply lifted it enough to place a screwdriver across the rim with the strip suspended and worked it around. You can NOT do this where the valve is installed, but it is close enough!
 

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CharacterZero said:
The "benches" I think you are referring to are along the flat portion of the rim, where the spoke-holes protrude (please let me know if this is right), are only to allow for easy inflation. ....
Thanks for the pics and great info Zero.!

Here is an example of the benches I am referring to: The left rim is a Mavic UST 823, the right a non-UST 721

The ridge on the UST rim, IMHO, is to help prevent burping or bead/beadlock separation during side loads. On a tubed tire, the tube puts opposing pressure on the bead to prevent movement so such a bead bench is not necessary (as can see be seen in the nonUST rim on the right)

P

Pic from: https://www.sicklines.com
https://www.sicklines.com/2008/02/04/2008-mavic-ex-823-and-mavic-ex-721/
 

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Mr.P said:
The ridge on the UST rim, IMHO, is to help prevent burping or bead/beadlock separation during side loads. On a tubed tire, the tube puts opposing pressure on the bead to prevent movement so such a bead bench is not necessary (as can see be seen in the nonUST rim on the right)

P
Right on, thanks for the pic.

I think this is where we differ of opinion (and I could very well be wrong). IMO, the bead of the tire sits up on the outer-most edge of the rim, and those benches have nothing to do with the bead once it is inflated.
Now, if you are saying that during side-loading that the bead could be pushed in and the benches are keeping it from dipping down and deflating, I might be convinced of that as a possibility- if the following weren't true:
1. Under side load the bead actually pulls away from the rim, not towards it. I am thinking of an off-camber or hard cornering situation. The bead would be pulled away from the rim on a vertical axis and towards the center of the rim on a horizontal axis, up and in. This is demonstrated in Stan's vid where he was pulling the tire to make it burp (for the life of me, I couldn't get my 34psi tire to do the same).
2. A tube isn't going to provide any more pressure than just air will, after all, a tube is only a method of containing air and will act the same.

All that being said, I am a real newb to the tubeless/wheel game and most probably know more than I do!
 

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The DT Swiss 5.1d kit worked perfectly for me. But the problem was the UST tires, not the kit. If you use anything over 2.25, it is a real chore to put them on, especially out on a trail. Maxxis 2.5" was impossible without tools. So I ended up going back to tubes. You can have my kits (you need 2) for a good price if you want.
 

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Character Zero, thanks for pointing me to this thread, great info :thumbsup:

Cable0guy, thanks for the kits! ;) :D
 
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