Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Tentatively planning on riding sections of the Great Divide Trail, which is why I'm re-building my 96' Trek 9700. Don't know yet whether I'm going to try to tow or use panniers. In looking at drive-trains, I need to replace the rear stuff. It currently has a 8sp Deore LX, 12-28T rear drive train. Need some opinions on direction, here are some thoughts;

1) Swith to 9spd (SRAM?? X.7) with thumb shifters and a 11-34T cassette?
2) Stick with 8sp and upgrade to 11-32T cassette. Which derail?? Is there such a thing as a 11 or 12-34T for 8sp drivetrain?
3) Do I have to go 9sp to get 34T cassette??

Since it's long distance, lot's of climbing and remote locations, I want a durable, foolproof (well as close to that as possible) system. Weight is a concern, but not at the sacrifice of durability, low maintenance, and reliability.

A little off the subject too, but I also need to replace the RockShock Indy SL, so looking for a reliable replacement for that as well in the 80-100mm travel range. Suggestions?

Thanks, Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,635 Posts
8sp. with 34t: You betcha

Easily done. Obtain a 34t cog, try harriscyclery.com. Can be hyperglide, even old twisttooth uniglide, doesn't matter.
Put 34t cog on hub. Put 8 sp. spacer on hub. Then you can either use an existing spider-mounted cluster -- one with a 30t large cog makes the most sense with the 34. Or with a 28t if you want or don't mind the 6t jump. Now, depending on the cluster in question, I've found that with some of them, a standard 8 sp.spacer is right. With some others, the backside of the spider arms hit the 34t cog, warping it. In which case an old 6 sp. spacer is the one to use. All depends on how much the spider body is offset from the back of the spider arms. With either method, the spacing still comes out standard 8 sp. from cog to cog, don't worry about the 6 sp. spacer, it's filling a gap between the spider body and the 34t cog, the spacing still comes out 8 sp.
Or you can build a custom cluster with all loose individual cogs. Heavier, but you can get customize the ratios.
Starting with an 8 sp. cluster and then adding a loose 34t cog, obviously one of the small loose cogs gets deleted. The 11t is the least necessry for the kind of riding you propose.
You're smart to want a 34t large cog.
Run a 5-bolt compact crank and you can also have a 20t granny. You might not think you'll need that low a gear, but when the air gets thin up high, and your legs are fried, and you're hauling your gear, you'll be glad you have it and probably wishing you had even lower.
I wouldn't recommend 9 sp., too finicky, too great a chance of folding over the larger cogs when pedaling hard with your touring load.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks

..so, essentially, I buy a new 30T cassette (drop off the 11Tcog), an individual 34T cog and an 8sp spacer OR I take my existing cassette (if I want to stick with a 28T, 2nd), drop off the 11T and buy the individual 34T cog and a 8sp spacer and I'm all set?

I'm thinking if I do this, with a new chain, maybe an X.9 or X.7 and new SRAM shifters, I should be good to go!

Not sure I understood the explanation about the spider spacing. If I buy the cassette, cog and spacer (either SRAM or Shimano) from the same mfg, shouldn't the "cassette space", I think mine measures 1.4", be the same for 8sp configuration?

Thanks for the help!
Mike
 

·
Derailleurless
Joined
·
9,122 Posts
Ah, you're tossing a softball for me to swing at. You, my friend, want a Rohloff Speedhub.

durable... check
foolproof (well as close to that as possible)... check
weight is a concern... err, ok, plan on a 700g weight gain there
durability... check
low maintenance... check
reliability... check

Straight chainline, tensionerless rear end possible on hardtails, no derailleurs, concealed shifter cables, sealed oil bath drivetrain, effective range of a 24 speed setup, what more could you want?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
what more could you want?[/QUOTE]

How about a value added? Let's see $899 divided by 5 day trip....hmm..$180 bucks a day. why don't I hire someone to ride it for me too and, oh, did I forget about the wheels??

C'mon, freind, let's be realistic.. :confused:
 

·
Derailleurless
Joined
·
9,122 Posts
mtncrawler said:
How about a value added? Let's see $899 divided by 5 day trip....hmm..$180 bucks a day. why don't I hire someone to ride it for me too and, oh, did I forget about the wheels??
Yeah, you're right, you're right... that's how I'd look at it, too... IF I WAS PLANNING TO THROW THE BIKE IN A DUMPSTER AT THE END OF THE TRIP [insert Sam Kinison :ArhhArrghhhh: here]

If you're a sane bike lover, as I suspect you are, it's a life long investment in a drivetrain that needs minimal up keep, no tuning, no broken chains, tweaked derailleur cages, snapped hangers, bent cogs or regular replacement. Pays for itself in no time.

If you're planning to throw that new fork in the dumpster, too, I'll take dibs on it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Speedüb Nate said:
Yeah, you're right, you're right... that's how I'd look at it, too... IF I WAS PLANNING TO THROW THE BIKE IN A DUMPSTER AT THE END OF THE TRIP [insert Sam Kinison :ArhhArrghhhh: here]

If you're a sane bike lover, as I suspect you are, it's a life long investment in a drivetrain that needs minimal up keep, no tuning, no broken chains, tweaked derailleur cages, snapped hangers, bent cogs or regular replacement. Pays for itself in no time.

If you're planning to throw that new fork in the dumpster, too, I'll take dibs on it!
Explain "no time". Let's see, the bike I'm rebuilding OR should I say updating in already 9 years old. I have two others which wil also NOT be with me on my death bed. I've invested little to no money so far and all I'm looking to do is upgade the drivetrain for a specific purpose. Haven't had any problems aside from just being worn. So I'm going to put maybe $150 to make it "like new". It's either that or spend close to $2000 for the product THAT YOU ARE SELLING!!!!!!!!!!!!! (wheels, front crank, hubs, chains etc..) Maybe if I had millions, but even that's a stretch.

First, a bike, at least in my view, is NOT a lifelong investment. Technology keeps forging ahead, you're assuming that nothing better will ever come along AND your assuming that when a bike is designed, it's for life. Not true. Geez, if cars were designed "for life" we'd be paying six figures.

Suffice it to say we have very different opinions, even though we may be both sane cyclists.

Now, can you stop hi-jacking my thread with a sales pitch??
Mike

PS - Sure you can have my fork when I replace it - for free - you just send me the $$ for shipping along with a shipping address.....it'll go perfect with that drivetrtain.
 

·
Derailleurless
Joined
·
9,122 Posts
No chance, there's no way I'm selling my Speedhub to you or anyone. Too hard to come by. Ain't no chance!

Ok, you're right, "no time" to me is three years and is in relation to shelling out for a new XT or XTR drivetrain (or what money I can get for that XT drivetrain by parting it out on ebay). So yeah, I suppose in your position of just upgrading a few select components, the payoff isn't necessarily there.

But the hub, it can bounce from bike to bike. My hub has already served on two bikes over the last three years, and my wife's, which I bought used, is now technically on its second bike, too. Hopefully there'll be a third, forth, and so on... Some day I'll replace my Hollowpoint with a 5" travel full suspension 29"er (the pinnacle of bike technology, just not designed and built yet) and the hub will be there, too.

Not sure where your $2000 figure came from. You can find them on ebay at times in the $600 range. You can use your existing crank, reusing a rim has never been a problem for me (new spokes and nipples, of course), and if you want you can keep the same ring and chain (rings and chains last forever on this thing -- no abusive shifting).

And hey, no hijack going on. You're the one asking for a "Drivetrain for Long Distance Touring." I'm perfectly OT.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Speedüb Nate said:
No chance, there's no way I'm selling my Speedhub to you or anyone. Too hard to come by. Ain't no chance!

Ok, you're right, "no time" to me is three years and is in relation to shelling out for a new XT or XTR drivetrain (or what I can get for that XT drivetrain by parting it out on ebay). So yeah, I suppose in your position of just upgrading a few select components, the payoff isn't necessarily there.

But the hub, it can bounce from bike to bike. My hub has already served on two bikes over the last three years, and my wife's, which I bought used, is now technically on it's second bike, too. Hopefully there'll be a third, forth, and so on... Some day I'll replace my Hollowpoint with a 5" travel full suspension 29"er (the pinnacle of bike technology) and the hub will be there, too.

Not sure where your $2000 figure came from. You can find them on ebay at times in the $600 range. You can use your existing crank, reusing a rim has never been a problem for me (new spokes and nipples, of course), and if you want you can keep the same ring and chain (rings and chains last forever on this thing -- no abusive shifting).

And hey, no hijack going on. You're the one asking for a "Drivetrain for Long Distance Touring." I'm perfectly on topic.
Ok, peace. You're right my $2000 figure is high - but $1000 for new and misc parts is realistic, and for me, it might as well be $2000. (don't know if I was spending that kind of money AND it was for life, I would buy used..). Glad you're happy with the hub. I don't want yours.

You're also right, I was asking for advice, but I wanted specific advice on the "type" of drivetrain I already had. I don't consider SRAM/Shimano to be two "completely" different systems. "perfectly on topic"???...well.

Over and out...still want my fork?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,635 Posts
the spacer issue

I've done this 34t conversion (and 33t conversion with Ritchey 2x9 33t cogs Nashbar was mistakingly selling as a 33t chainring, the idiots) numerous times with a variety of shitmano cassettes. Sometimes, and I forget which casettes where which way, putting an 8 sp. spacer after the 34t cog and behind the spider-mounted cluster doesn't fill up the gap between the inner edge of the spider body and the 34t cog, because the 5 spider arms are positioned farther inboard than the inner edge of the cluster body. With an 8 sp. spacer in that case, tightening the lockring forces the back side of the spider arms hard against the face of the 34t cog, warping it. If yours is like this, you'll definitely see it and see why a slightly wider 6 sp. spacer is needed.
Other times, with other clusters, an 8 sp. spacer works perfectly, as the spider arms aren't located so far inboard relative to the inner edge of the cluster body.
By cluster body I mean the central piece with splines that match that of the freehub body onto which it slides.
Those Ritchey/nashbar 33t cogs are offset so no spacer is required.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,635 Posts
ez replacement wheel?

and when you stumble down off the trail and into some shop in East Jesus looking for a cheap and ready replacement wheel because yours got destroyed on the trail, be prepared to sit around while they lace up your internal hub instead of grabbing a prebuilt LX wheel off the ceiling hook.

and if you go on a group tour with Rim or Kaibab or any of them, they'll be carry some spare freehub wheels fer sure,but no internal hubs for you.

the rohloff is cool no doubt. but a good rule for touring is never have equipment that can't be worked on or replaced in some mom and pa bike shop.
 

·
Derailleurless
Joined
·
9,122 Posts
bulC said:
the rohloff is cool no doubt. but a good rule for touring is never have equipment that can't be worked on or replaced in some mom and pa bike shop.
I hope this reply isn't considered another attempted hijack.

Your're right, of course, that there are certain tradeoffs. Those that you mention are the negatives.

One of the positives over derailleurs is a perfectly symmetrical rear wheel build on a tall (100mm) flange. This means perfectly even, relatively low spoke tension all the way around and from that, one of the strongest wheel builds you can imagine.

Another is the reliability record. Obviously those of us with Speedhubs here on mtbr and on USENET are only a small fraction of the total number out there, but I have yet to hear of a hub failure. The most common mechanical problem snapped chain tensioner spring, but they've come up with a redesign to address that. Rohloff's shop in Berkeley claims they have yet to see a damaged hub come through for repairs, with some notable exceptions (i.e. Loctite in bearings, incorrect lubricant used, saltwater corrosion). Recumbent riders in newsgroups have reported literally tens of thousands of miles on their Speedhub drivetrains and still going strong.

There are some very interesting "trekking" journals scattered about the web. One is a free spirit named Tilman Waldthaler who recently completed an Alaska to Argentina trip on a Speedhub.

Another is a team that turned me on to the Speedhub in the first place, during an Africa trek a few years back. The team was Andy Hebberg and Waltraud Schulze touring on a prototype Speedhub through a couple thousand miles of desert.

The Speedhub has also proven to be one of the most reliable drivetrains on the annual TransAlp Challenge. There is an interesting ride report on the web of a Rohloff-equipped Tandem team completing this one.

The internals swap in and out of the hub shell pretty quickly if you're in a position to get a spare freighted in, but I guess in a worse-case scenario, you could always trash-can a broken Speedhub and throw a traditional wheel in its place, assuming the bike has a derailleur hanger.

So again, just some food for thought. Please don't take this as a "sales pitch" or me trying to sway your opinion for a 5 day bike ride. I'll leave you guys alone now. :)
 

·
Mmm... Tasty
Joined
·
700 Posts
I've done a bit of touring through alaska and canada... while not at the extreme elevations of the divide, i found that even a 24/34 became almost a ridiculously low gear and found getting off and pushing a nice change of muscle use and actually faster. I used a BOB trailer, 48/36/24 up front and a custom 13-34 cassette in back. All my equipment weighed close to 100 lbs. Regarding the Bul's comments, you should be able to hack together a cheap SRAM cassette with different gears due to the "lower tech" assembly (just rivited together plates).


Just one viewpoint, which is not to say a crazy low gear is not a good idea, i just found even mine too low to be useful.

-Damon
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
GMF said:
I've done a bit of touring through alaska and canada... while not at the extreme elevations of the divide, i found that even a 24/34 became almost a ridiculously low gear and found getting off and pushing a nice change of muscle use and actually faster. I used a BOB trailer, 48/36/24 up front and a custom 13-34 cassette in back. All my equipment weighed close to 100 lbs. Regarding the Bul's comments, you should be able to hack together a cheap SRAM cassette with different gears due to the "lower tech" assembly (just rivited together plates).

Just one viewpoint, which is not to say a crazy low gear is not a good idea, i just found even mine too low to be useful.

-Damon
Thanks for the comments Damon! You're right, sometimes its easier, using less energy, and using differnet muscles to take a break from the saddle. I plan on following through with BulC's recommendations. I actually found another rear 8sp cassette that I had which already has the 30T cog - now I just need to find the spacers and single 34T cog - none of my LBS's carry individuals. Most said that the big names, Shimano/SRAM, stopped distributing them. Still need to check with Harris Cycles though...

Could always just switch to an 8sp 11-32T and see if its enough.

100lbs you say? How many days were you packed up for? I'm thinking my bike will weight in at around 26lbs and I've done a 3 day road tour with it before (up and over Rocky Mountain NP), but neglected to weight the whole kit. I used front and rear panniers for that trip.

- Mike
 

·
Mmm... Tasty
Joined
·
700 Posts
mtncrawler said:
100lbs you say? How many days were you packed up for? I'm thinking my bike will weight in at around 26lbs and I've done a 3 day road tour with it before (up and over Rocky Mountain NP), but neglected to weight the whole kit. I used front and rear panniers for that trip.

- Mike
I was set up with a mtn bike hardtail, judy fork, the trailer, and enough stuff to live out of my trailer for a little over 2 months, which means most everything to be self-sufficient. I only had to carry about 3 days worth of food at a time, though. Figure the trailer is at least 10 lbs of that weight... the only reason i know how much it weighed in total was i ended up catching a bus for part of it so i had to figure out how to cram it all in a fairly large box... which subsequently got weighed.

The trip was increadible, though... what you are planning to do is most certainly on my "must do" list. Should be a ton of fun!

-Damon
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top