[jscusmcvet]

OK, so a bit of background. I am a well experienced, yet slow rider. Happily tooling along on my On One Summer Season for the past year or so. On a whim, I bought a Voodoo Cycles hardtail frame to build up as a singlespeed to give that a try. Well as you all know... it was more expensive than I thought... and than I told my wife it would be (1st mistake)... and to be honest, now that I am used to the slack angles of the on one, traditional geometry just does not get it for me....

So as I am blathering away about this to my wife (2d mistake).. she says... "For pete's &*^*%^$ sake! Isn't it possible for you to have just ONE bike and be happy?" So naturally, after some thought, my reply was.... "How much can I spend?"

Here is where YOU come in. I am sold on the "All Mountain Hardtail". NOT interested in: racing, xc geometry, full suspension, 30 gears, 27 gears, singlespeed, ultra burly build that is so heavy that my fat a$$ can't pedal it up a hill. Here is what I am thinking:

Titanium frame
slack ht angle
normal to steep seat angle
130-150mm fork - coil prefered over air
durable, but light components, wheelset
2x9 or maybe 1x10... open to opinion here
comfortable for all day in the saddle
Would like to be around 27 or less pounds at the most - lighter is better, as long as it is durable

Here is the kicker... Price no object. I figure I have to start out at the ultimate and if I do not get the "AMEN" from the keeper of the $... work my way down from there.

SO... give it your best shot! Help me figure this out. Be specific as possible and give me reasons for your recommendation.

Your help is greatly appreciated:thumbsup:

John

 

[MondoRides]

One-One 456 Ti?

Maybe not as slack-angled as your Summer Season but you might want to give the On-One 456 Ti a look since you're already familiar with the brand. I have the 456 Carbon but I was also considering the Ti model. Built it up as a 25lb trail bike with decently sturdy components, a 150mm fork and adjustable seatpost.

Mine was intended to replace a Santa Cruz Chameleon I used to own. Loved the geometry and handling characteristics of the Chameleon with a long travel fork but hated the stiff, non-compliant ride of an aluminum hardtail so this bike really fits the bill for me.

However, if money really is no object, I would go with a custom build from Sycip, Black Sheep, Walt Works or one of the many other boutique custom builders. Give them a description of what you're looking for, riding style, etc, and they can help you get the geometry dialed.

On-One 456 Ti Frame only ($1100): https://on-one.co.uk/i/q/FROOTI456VN/on-one-ti-456-frame
Complete Build ($2800 & under 25lbs): https://on-one.co.uk/i/q/CBOOTI456XT/on-one-ti-456-xt-pro

 

[bing!]

Excuse me, what is that front tire on the on one carbon?

 

[presslab]

How much do you weigh John? I have the 456 Ti and it's great! But it's probably too burly a frame for you, it's meant to be ridden hard and it's weight reflects that. Money being no object you should get a custom frame, perhaps like the 456 Ti geometry but with lighter gauge tubing.

Mine is a stout build but with relatively light components and it comes in at 31.4 lbs. I do have the 11-speed gear hub and if you go derailleur you'll save 1.5 lbs. My tires are pretty heavy too.

This is my dream AM titanium hardtail, I have been wanting this bike for 10 years! It's pretty much exactly what I wanted. I weigh 200 lbs and I ride it hard.

 

[MaukaRunner]

Since cost is no object, here is a post from 2005.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=90221&highlight=titanium+chameleon

 

[jscusmcvet]

How much do you weigh John? I have the 456 Ti and it's great! But it's probably too burly a frame for you, it's meant to be ridden hard and it's weight reflects that. Money being no object you should get a custom frame, perhaps like the 456 Ti geometry but with lighter gauge tubing.

Mine is a stout build but with relatively light components and it comes in at 31.4 lbs. I do have the 11-speed gear hub and if you go derailleur you'll save 1.5 lbs. My tires are pretty heavy too.

This is my dream AM titanium hardtail, I have been wanting this bike for 10 years! It's pretty much exactly what I wanted. I weigh 200 lbs and I ride it hard.

my weight varies, with the amount of post ride beer consumed from 185 on the light side to 195+ on the heavy side. I think the 456 is probably a good starting poiunt and could be built for the weight I am interested in. I have also looked at the Ragley TI with the same geo as the blue pig. Seems like it might be a snappier handling bike. I am in no rush since this will be a once in a lifetime build... assuming I can get it right.

Presslab, how do you like the internal geared hub?
Keep it comin...

JOhn

 

[saturnine]

how about this bad boy?
https://www.brodiebikes.com/2011/bikes/holeshot_ti.php

 

[davemk]

how about this bad boy?
https://www.brodiebikes.com/2011/bikes/holeshot_ti.php

What is MSRP on the Holeshot Ti?

 

[MondoRides]

Excuse me, what is that front tire on the on one carbon?

Kenda Blue Groove 2.35 on the front and a Kenda Small Block 8 2.35 on the rear.

 

[saturnine]

What is MSRP on the Holeshot Ti?

£1,099

 

[MondoRides]

Good thing money is no object...

£1,099

£1,099 = $1788! That Ti Holeshot is a nice looking frame though :thumbsup:

 

[HotzKiss]

It has to be Ragley Ti

 

[Fix the Spade]

Here is the kicker... Price no object. I figure I have to start out at the ultimate and if I do not get the "AMEN" from the keeper of the $... work my way down from there.

If you truly mean that, get a custom.

None of the off the peg Ti frames come close to having one that is made to measure specifically for you, with the exact geometry and parts you want. Buying an OTP frame would just be spending a whole lot of money for a compromise.

Keeping that in mind, go look through the pictures of NAHBs this year for a builder you like the work of, although if in doubt you can't go wrong with Kent Eriksen.

 

[presslab]

Presslab, how do you like the internal geared hub?

It's great! I had an Alfine 8 and now the 11. The shifter is nice, engagement is pretty good, and the gear range is good too. I've had the 11 on only a few rides but it's taken everything I've given it without any complaint.

 

[saturnine]

£1,099 = $1788! That Ti Holeshot is a nice looking frame though :thumbsup:

euro prices are rarely straight conversions. VAT is included in their price.

 

[MondoRides]

Good point...

euro prices are rarely straight conversions. VAT is included in their price.

£1,099 - 20% VAT (220) = £879 or $1433. That's a little better now

 

[leov]

My AM tit dream;
skyde, French brand.

https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5260/5488614674_15e4e79289_b.jpg

 

[jscusmcvet]

Wow, some great stuff here guys, especially the custom builders, as I have no previous experience with anything like that. I am also researching and beginning to dig the idea of the internal gear hub as posted by presslab. It seems that with the shimano alfine 8 and maybe a hammerschidt front or even just a 2 ring (if that is possible) the rear derailler headaches might be a thing of the past... still not sold on it, but open to investigating further.

I am also researching lighter 130 -150mm coil forks. Again for durability. I have had very good luck with Manitou over the years, but open to hearing from others.

I think this build is doable. For those of you asking whether price is REALLY no object... well, the wife says do it right, do it once. Reality sets in and I can see that this build could be stupidly expensive, so I am going to say max $3 - $4k, preferrably less. I saw on the On one site that I could get a 456 with an XT build for less than $3k. I am assuming that means I could build similar frames for around the same and hit my weight mark. IF On One came out with a TI Summer Season, I would be hard pressed to look elsewhere, except for some minor tweaks... I am intrigued with the Blue Pig, always have been and so the Ragley TI is leading the pack right now... AND Brandt has been awesome answering my PM's over the last couple of years as I try to figure all this "hardtail AM" thing out.

I am going to get on the phone over the next couple days and try to speak with some of the custom builders mentioned. Maybe they can build a frame that my short legs can fit over, that my long (in comparison) torso is not cramped on, that is slack enough at the head that it diminishes my "favorite pastime" of going OTB, that the chainstays are short enough that the bike is quick handling, that the overall length is still long enough that it is stable when I am going too fast downhill for my own good, that has replaceable D hangers (I bend my SS dhanger way too often) and as stated before, that is durable enough that this 5'6" almost 200 pound powerlifter will not crack or break it... a bottle opener, as seen on some other frames would be nice, but that would not make or break the deal

Keep the info coming. As stated earlier I am not in a rush, so hope that I can whittle this down to a couple choices, with the build costs and get the final OK we are all after... (come on, you KNOW you want this to work out...)

Thanks again and keep it coming.

John

 

[jscusmcvet]

Maybe not as slack-angled as your Summer Season but you might want to give the On-One 456 Ti a look since you're already familiar with the brand. I have the 456 Carbon but I was also considering the Ti model. Built it up as a 25lb trail bike with decently sturdy components, a 150mm fork and adjustable seatpost.

Mine was intended to replace a Santa Cruz Chameleon I used to own. Loved the geometry and handling characteristics of the Chameleon with a long travel fork but hated the stiff, non-compliant ride of an aluminum hardtail so this bike really fits the bill for me.

However, if money really is no object, I would go with a custom build from Sycip, Black Sheep, Walt Works or one of the many other boutique custom builders. Give them a description of what you're looking for, riding style, etc, and they can help you get the geometry dialed.

On-One 456 Ti Frame only ($1100): https://on-one.co.uk/i/q/FROOTI456VN/on-one-ti-456-frame
Complete Build ($2800 & under 25lbs): https://on-one.co.uk/i/q/CBOOTI456XT/on-one-ti-456-xt-pro

Have to say that after looking at your post and then researching a bit the 456 carbon is gaining some momentum for me... a full pound or so lighter than the ti, half the price. Would allow for higher end components. Since I currently rin my summer season with a 130mm fork, seems as though I could throw a 150mm fork on the carbon and the HT angle might close in on what I am already riding and adjusted to. I am also considering and researching the Alfine internal geared hub, the hammerschmidt and even considering doing a "2 speed" (single speed rear end with a hammerschmidt up front).

Thanks for all your help. Any othre thoughts would be welcome.

John

 

[flighty]

price of no concern....Moots.