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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Opinions?

I'm prepping to do my next build, which I am down to choosing from two frames. This will be my first 29r

I'm 6,0", 34" inseam.

INTENSE SPYDER 29 - Looks awesome, like th egeo, and the rear end (VPP), but I'll have to wait 6+ weeks for it from the place I wanna get it from :madman:

NINER R.I.P. - Found one that can ship same day, and most of the stuff I've seen is positive. Only downside I can see is the frame is a little heavier.

Intended riding:

More Endurance-type rides and events. 12s, 50's, 100s, etc...

Any experience in here?

Thanks
 

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playpunk said:
for endurance stuff I'd got with an asylum 29er from speedgoat it's a great enduro bike
You had a problem with multiple choice tests didn't you?

I think that there is a significant difference in geometry between the two frames. I would look closely at the head angles and see if one looks better than the other to you. I think there also significant difference in how the two bikes will handle. Choose wisely based on where and how you ride.
 

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Maybe some more detail would help?

Law said:
You had a problem with multiple choice tests didn't you?
No problem, actually. I just don't think that either of those bikes would be appropriate for endurance racing. Here's why:

1. The R.I.P. Is a big, all-mountain-ish bike. I know it's no heavier than an asylum, and not much heavier than the Intense, but if it's built with big bike components that the frame "deserves" it'll be quite a bit more bike than is needed for endurance events. But if you want to lug around a 30+ pound bike for 100 miles, more power to you.

2. The Intense has screwy geometry. Long top tubes, and ridiculously steep angles, even for a 29er. 73 degree HA???? Too steep. 72 is even kind of steep steep, especially if you're used to slacker angles. I came off an XC hardtail with a 70 degree head angle, and riding a 80mm fork @ 72 degrees on my current ride the bike feels faster/twitchier. Just a word to the wise. Another issue I have with the bike is the total lack of mud clearance. I live in the northeast, and that's a serious issue up here.

If you're looking for a bike strictly for endurance riding/racing, I'd recommend either a Lenz Leviathan or a Titus/Asylum Racer X, if you're going to go with a dual suspension. I don't have any saddle time on the Lenz, but I have ridden an Asylum, and it just feels "right." The Lenz is a pretty similar bike, in terms of suspension and geometry, and I'd feel comfortable recommending either of those bikes as an endurance steed, and even though I haven't spent any time on either the Intense or the Niner, I wouldn't consider either for my personal ride.
 

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Jet 9

RSW42 said:
Opinions?

I'm prepping to do my next build, which I am down to choosing from two frames. This will be my first 29r

I'm 6,0", 34" inseam.

INTENSE SPYDER 29 - Looks awesome, like th egeo, and the rear end (VPP), but I'll have to wait 6+ weeks for it from the place I wanna get it from :madman:

NINER R.I.P. - Found one that can ship same day, and most of the stuff I've seen is positive. Only downside I can see is the frame is a little heavier.

Intended riding:

More Endurance-type rides and events. 12s, 50's, 100s, etc...

Any experience in here?

Thanks
For what you described the Niner JET 9 sounds like a better fit than the RIP 9.

FWIW I have ridden the Spider..........:thumbsup: great CC bike
 

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The Spider has a 73 degree HTA but that might be nice with a longer travel fork.
I don't know how much travel endurance racers use.
My bike has a 72 degree HTA and an 80mm travel fork. It doesn't feel too steep to me.
 

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playpunk said:
No problem, actually. I just don't think that either of those bikes would be appropriate for endurance racing. Here's why:

1. The R.I.P. Is a big, all-mountain-ish bike. I know it's no heavier than an asylum, and not much heavier than the Intense, but if it's built with big bike components that the frame "deserves" it'll be quite a bit more bike than is needed for endurance events. But if you want to lug around a 30+ pound bike for 100 miles, more power to you.

2. The Intense has screwy geometry. Long top tubes, and ridiculously steep angles, even for a 29er. 73 degree HA???? Too steep. 72 is even kind of steep steep, especially if you're used to slacker angles. I came off an XC hardtail with a 70 degree head angle, and riding a 80mm fork @ 72 degrees on my current ride the bike feels faster/twitchier. Just a word to the wise. Another issue I have with the bike is the total lack of mud clearance. I live in the northeast, and that's a serious issue up here.

If you're looking for a bike strictly for endurance riding/racing, I'd recommend either a Lenz Leviathan or a Titus/Asylum Racer X, if you're going to go with a dual suspension. I don't have any saddle time on the Lenz, but I have ridden an Asylum, and it just feels "right." The Lenz is a pretty similar bike, in terms of suspension and geometry, and I'd feel comfortable recommending either of those bikes as an endurance steed, and even though I haven't spent any time on either the Intense or the Niner, I wouldn't consider either for my personal ride.
If the OP has a thing for Niner, and he wants an endurance bike, maybe he should wait for the JET9....[Damn it, now you got me doing the same thing... choosing outside the given options.:D ] I do agree with your geometry statements regarding the Intense, and I think that RIP9 is not the lightest FS 29er frame either as you stated, at around 6.5 lbs. The Lenz is around 5.3bs depending on size (I read that in a Mikesee post a bit ago).
 

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GeoKrpan said:
The Spider has a 73 degree HTA but that might be nice with a longer travel fork.
I don't know how much travel endurance racers use.
My bike has a 72 degree HTA and an 80mm travel fork. It doesn't feel too steep to me.
Great, so now let a some air out of the fork and ride around with about 20-25mm more sag and see if it still feels ok. It may not be quite the same, but I assure you one degree is noticeable. I am not saying it is bad--just noticeable.
 

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Law said:
Great, so now let a some air out of the fork and ride around with about 20-25mm more sag and see if it still feels ok. It may not be quite the same, but I assure you one degree is noticeable. I am not saying it is bad--just noticeable.
I read recently in a MTB magazine that 1 inch of fork length equates to roughly one degree of HTA.
If true, a 73 degree HTA with a 100mm travel fork would only be slightly steeper than a 72 degree HTA with a 80mm fork.
I don't consider sag when setting up my fork.
I run the air pressure that I like the best. That usually means little or no sag.
My local trails are very steep. If the fork isn't firm it compresses and unweights the rear wheel. The rear wheel then starts to skid.
With a firm fork I can still brake with the front and rear brakes even on really steep stuff.
One of the benefits of 29" wheels is their comfort. I don't miss the sag at all.
 

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GeoKrpan said:
I read recently in a MTB magazine that 1 inch of fork length equates to roughly one degree of HTA.
If true, a 73 degree HTA with a 100mm travel fork would only be slightly steeper than a 72 degree HTA with a 80mm fork.
IQUOTE]

Huh??? you are right it is one degree steeper. :rolleyes:

My point was that if you were to lower your sag amount and the rode around for just a bit you could tell what a 73 degree head angle felt like. It was not that running more sage is better. The fork would not feel right with more sag, but you could tell a little bit better how a 73 degree head angle felt and that it feels different. That was all I was trying to get across.
 

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playpunk said:
1. The R.I.P. Is a big, all-mountain-ish bike. I know it's no heavier than an asylum, and not much heavier than the Intense, but if it's built with big bike components that the frame "deserves" it'll be quite a bit more bike than is needed for endurance events. But if you want to lug around a 30+ pound bike for 100 miles, more power to you.
In the interests of full disclosure I'll start by saying that I'm the New Zealand Distributor for Niner Bikes and that I've had very little or no saddle time on any of the other bikes mentioned in this thread, but that said...

The R.I.P. 9 is increasingly being defined as an "all mountain" type bike and personally I think that this can be a bit misleading. I feel it's quite happy at the XC end of the all mountain spectrum, for example if it was to be compared to a Specialized 26er it's more of a Stumpjumper equivalent than an Enduro. The critical issues that define the bikes intended purpose are the fork choice and build details. With the White Brothers Fluid 29 135 up front and a burly build kit and wheelset the R.I.P. 9 can be all-mountain-ish, but equally with a Reba up front and a lightweight wheelset and parts it makes an excellent XC bike. The frame itself is relatively light, and perhaps more importantly it pedals well and "rides light". I've got a demo bike (pictured) built up with a Maverick DUC and a reasonably burly parts kit (Race Face Atlas cranks, Monkeylite DH bar, etc) and wheelset (I9 with DT TK7.1d rims) and it certainly doesn't feel like a heavy bike (I'll post an actual weight when I can track down a decent scale). I'm building another R.I.P. up with the Pace fork pictured, a I9/Stans Arch wheelset and a XTR groupset which I'm predicting will be a pretty light bike and a very nice endurance racer.

My point is that the R.I.P. 9 is a surprisingly versatile platform and with the appropriate build is not just a burly trailbike. :thumbsup:
 

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Law said:
Huh??? you are right it is one degree steeper. :rolleyes:

My point was that if you were to lower your sag amount and the rode around for just a bit you could tell what a 73 degree head angle felt like. It was not that running more sage is better. The fork would not feel right with more sag, but you could tell a little bit better how a 73 degree head angle felt and that it feels different. That was all I was trying to get across.
OK, now I see what you meant.
Are you saying that the 73/100 combo is steeper than the 72/80 combo?
They are essentially the same in terms of steepness.
The longer fork essentially negates the steeper head angle.
 

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Got to say I'm biased on the RIP9, not as WayDownSouth, but becuase I own one. I think that it really depends on how you build the RIP9 frame out that will make it either a really nice AM/Agro XC bike or a nice XC/Enduro XC bike. Right now I've got my XL built up using XT parts and stock wheelset and it feels very good all round to me, throw on a lighter wheelset than the WTB Speeddisc and drop 25-400 grams and total Enduro race, maybe even XC race bike. The bike pedals really good , feels fast and flowy, heck I'll even throw out the link to my review of it http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=315806
 

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GeoKrpan said:
OK, now I see what you meant.
Are you saying that the 73/100 combo is steeper than the 72/80 combo?
They are essentially the same in terms of steepness.
The longer fork essentially negates the steeper head angle.
I think that is what Intense would argue as well. I am skeptical that this is true after spending the mid to late 90's on various DH bikes. Even with a long travel fork those bikes are still choppered out. But again they are only going down.

Whatever, in the end to each his own. I prefer the feel of 29er with the more laid back feel Even 72 was too steep for me on a 29er. I don't claim to be normal though:D
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
DeeZee said:
For what you described the Niner JET 9 sounds like a better fit than the RIP 9.
Is the JET9 that new FS rig they have been showing around? If so, it isn't even in production yet, is it?

Backmarker said:
According to the interbike report and photos, the R.I.P. is lighter than the Spider:.
Sorry, I was going off the MFR websites...

RIP - 6.5
Spyder - 6

.
 

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Theres more then 2 flavors of kool-aid..

I've raced enduro stuff on a leviathan and it worked real well. Currently on a el rey. have yet to race it but ive put some good time on it. Just saying..
 

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Jet9

RSW42 said:
Is the JET9 that new FS rig they have been showing around? If so, it isn't even in production yet, is it?

Sorry, I was going off the MFR websites...

RIP - 6.5
Spyder - 6

.
Correct it is not out yet. However it sounds like you are interested in the RIP because you can get it now.:confused:

The Spider is race bike with aggressive geo. The RIP is quite different. IMO the JET will be closer to the Spider.

Good luck on your choice!:)
 

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I'd second this...

Law said:
I think that is what Intense would argue as well. I am skeptical that this is true after spending the mid to late 90's on various DH bikes. Even with a long travel fork those bikes are still choppered out. But again they are only going down.

Whatever, in the end to each his own. I prefer the feel of 29er with the more laid back feel Even 72 was too steep for me on a 29er. I don't claim to be normal though:D
Going a little off-topic here, but I'm not a big fan of trying to correct for steep headtube angles by running longer forks. I had a 2001 Ellsworth Truth that had a 71.5 degree headtube angle. Way too steep for my personal preference - it was an endo machine in my not-so-competent hands. For a while I used a Fox TALAS with the frame in an attempt to make the bike a little less twitchy. At 100 mm travel, the bike was marginally less twitchy, but as the travel was set longer the bike's handling got all messed up.

I experienced a similar effect on my '05 5 Spot when I put a 140mm Fox Vanilla on it. The awesome handling that I loved the bike (with a 130mm Vanilla) disappeared everywhere except on the downhills. Fortunately, PUSH came out with the longer travel rockers and everything is once again right.

For an endurance race bike the last thing I personally would want is a fast handling bike that requires lots of attention. At the end of a 100 mile race, I want a stable bike that goes where I point it even when I am tired and not at my best. In this respect, I think that 29ers in general are great - I wouldn't hesitate to use mine for a 100 mile race. And maybe the Spider isn't super twitchy - I wouldn't know, I have never ridden one. However, I wouldn't buy it with the intent of making it slacker by running a longer fork on it, especially if there are other bikes out there that already have a geometry more in keeping with what you are trying to achieve.
 

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I'm riding a hardtail with a 72 degree HTA, 80mm travel fork, 24" TT, and 120mm stem.
You would think that would spell endo machine but that is not the case at all.
In fact it is the least endo prone of any bike that I've owned.
Less endo prone than my 5" travel all mountain 26er.
Why? My speculation.
It's longer, TT and wheelbase. Wheelbase because of the long TT and 17.9" chainstays.
Big wheels. They don't hang up like 26ers. I'm able to run higher fork pressure because of the comfort of the 29" wheel. This reduces the dive when pointed steeply downhill. I am using my front brake like never before.
Short travel fork. Even if it compresses all the way it's only lowering the front end 3" not 5".
Do I miss a long travel fork? No, not at all. Some say that a 29" wheel is worth an inch of travel. If so, a 29er with a 3" travel fork is the equivalent of a 26er with a 4" travel fork.
Yes, there are some trails and parts of some trails that I can't ride and some kinds of riding that I can't do.
But I was never into that kind of stuff anyway. I stay on the trails and the vast majority of them are perfectly ridable. In fact, I think that gobs of suspension can be a hinderance at times.
I love the simplicity of a steel hardtail. Mine is especially good. It is the cheapest and heaviest mountain bike that I've owned but it is the best mountain bike that I've owned.
 
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