REVIEWS DEALS BIKESHOPS TRAILS

Down time.

3376 Views 70 Replies 25 Participants Last post by confused, Jul 28, 2010

mikesee

Discussion Starter · Jul 26, 2010

2

Last week I found myself in temporary possession of not one, not two, but three LenzSport PBJ downhill bikes. Scott, Skippy and I managed to sneak away from the oppressive local heat and stuck-in-the-80's local trails for a few hours of riding up at Winter Park.

And it was *good*!

Neither Skippy nor I had had a 'fix' since last September in Whistler. Somehow, Skippy did what he always seems to do: Hopped onto a never-before-ridden demo bike and proceeded to rip.

To my knowledge, this was Scott's first real bike park experience. It was fun to watch (and hear) him adapt and learn, and by the end of the day he was popping the lips, carving the berms, and manualing through chunk like, well, like he was on a DH bike!

We all had our moments of panic, usually following and followed by some relative moments of brilliance.

It cannot be argued that riding in the park is the fastest way possible to up your skill level. We're all lifelong XC geeks, but we've been bitten by the park bug and we're all planning to spend more time there.

In our brief time there the trail crews roughed in and opened a few more short sections of track. We were impressed with the foresight and skill shown by the trail designers and builders--they may not get things exactly right the first time, every time, but they come damn close, and they're always willing to tune and tweak as much as needed to get every line dialed.

Chapeau, gents, we enjoyed your trails and can't wait to get back up.

Cheerios,

MC

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Slick&Slam

· #2 · Jul 26, 2010

Damn SKippy!

from the Lenz website...

29 inch whees have a much better rolling speed than a 26er, so the competition using those little wheels will soon be breathing in your dust. If you want to own the downhill courses, and still be able to pedal up to hit the sickest lines, there is no other bike in the world that will suit you more than the PBJ

Sorry, but that bike was looking pretty unstable in the corners.

I doubt you'd ever see a "whee 29'er" on our playground...

Nick_M2R

· #3 · Jul 26, 2010

Sweet pics and vids!

JMH

· #4 · Jul 26, 2010

Slick&Slam said:
I doubt you'd ever see a "whee 29'er" on our playground...

You're kidding, right? My irony meter must be off... I only watched the first 3 or 4 minutes and your trails look sweet and fun but I didn't see anything my 120mm RIP 9 couldn't handle just fine. A 29er with a Dorado would just roll that stuff flat. Maybe it's just the camera lens?

Loki

· #5 · Jul 26, 2010

Just marketing BS

Slick&Slam said:
from the Lenz website...

Sorry, but that bike was looking pretty unstable in the corners.

I doubt you'd ever see a "whee 29'er" on our playground...

Every company uses it. If you went off what the copy writers said, you would have to think every bike is the best at everything.

As for the guy looking unstable in the corners.. I think it was the rider not the bike.

Slick&Slam

· #6 · Jul 26, 2010

Loki said:
Every company uses it. If you went off what the copy writers said, you would have to think every bike is the best at everything.

As for the guy looking unstable in the corners.. I think it was the rider not the bike.

The flex was obvious when the rider attempted to rail in/out of corners.

Just 'cuz the bike can "handle" it, does not mean that the lack of performance isn't noticeable in certain situations and could be accountable for lack of fun-factor

I can't stand this type of marketing. It's misleading and for lack of a better words, it's false advertising. There is a reason that you don't see many of these bikes in Park/Lift Assisted venues. The guys that I know who are die hard 29'er fans won't step foot on the majority of trails at Pajarito.

While some may Parks "accommodate" (read buffed out jump lines) these frames, the majority that I've seen would require an advanced rider at the helm. Even an advanced rider would likely prefer a 26'er in most situations.

Just the facts...

Loki

· #7 · Jul 26, 2010

Wow, I did not know this.

Slick&Slam said:
The flex was obvious when the rider attempted to rail in/out of corners.

Just 'cuz the bike can "handle" it, does not mean that the lack of performance isn't noticeable in certain situations and could be accountable for lack of fun-factor

I can't stand this type of marketing. It's misleading and for lack of a better words, it's false advertising. There is a reason that you don't see many of these bikes in Park/Lift Assisted venues. The guys that I know who are die hard 29'er fans won't step foot on the majority of trails at Pajarito.

While some may Parks "accommodate" (read buffed out jump lines) these frames, the majority that I've seen would require an advanced rider at the helm. Even an advanced rider would likely prefer a 26'er in most situations.

Just the facts...

You sir seem to be the expert. Thanks for the lesson.

Slick&Slam

· #8 · Jul 26, 2010

Loki said:
You sir seem to be the expert. Thanks for the lesson.

No prob:thumbsup:

I'm far from an expert; my experience with this type of marketing is that the opposite is true.

If you would watch the latter part of the video, I'd be interested to see how a 29'er would fair in some of those corners.

mikesee

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jul 26, 2010

Slick&Slam said:
The flex was obvious when the rider attempted to rail in/out of corners.

You're hilarious. You can actually see flex in an optimized-for-the-web video?! You're amazing. Tell me, oh wise one, what's flexing? Wheels? Tires? Frame? Fork? Or could it be his seatpost (he does sit a lot when cruising) or even seat rails? We await your proclamation.

Slick&Slam said:
Just 'cuz the bike can "handle" it, does not mean that the lack of performance isn't noticeable in certain situations and could be accountable for lack of fun-factor

How many 29" DH bikes have you ridden to notice this 'lack of performance'?

Slick&Slam said:
I can't stand this type of marketing. It's misleading and for lack of a better words, it's false advertising.

If you'd ridden this bike, uphill and down, in the situations that Devin Lenz (the guy responsible for the marketing spew that so offended you) has, and that I have, you'd see what he's on about. I'm with you in that the marketing spew doesn't really do anything for me--it certainly wouldn't make me want to try or buy one of these bikes. But the truth is that they're amazingly capable (and, more importantly to me, FUN) descenders, and they can still be pedaled up trail (not just road, but trail) to get at the goods.

So yeah, I'm not hip to the marketing spew, but what he's saying *is* based in fact.

Slick&Slam said:
There is a reason that you don't see many of these bikes in Park/Lift Assisted venues.

Because there are so few parks and even fewer 29" DH bikes? Maybe?!

Slick&Slam said:
The guys that I know who are die hard 29'er fans won't step foot on the majority of trails at Pajarito.

Sounds like the reason is that the guys don't like that kind of riding? Looked like (from your vid) fun XC to me. Nothing you'd need a DH bike for.

Slick&Slam said:
While some may Parks "accommodate" (read buffed out jump lines) these frames, the majority that I've seen would require an advanced rider at the helm.

Sounds to me like you have no idea what you're talking about. If anything, the PBJ is more at home on steep chunk than buffed out jump lines. It's just that I prefer to ride jump lines at parks because all I have to ride at home is steep chunk.

Slick&Slam said:
Even an advanced rider would likely prefer a 26'er in most situations.

That may be true, but most likely because so few 29" FR/DH bikes exist to date.

Slick&Slam said:
Just the facts...

You haven't even approached a fact yet, and might not know one if you did.

It doesn't bother me that you don't like big wheels. Don't ride 'em, eh? But spouting misinformation because you were offended by marketing? C'mon. Go to the Specialized or Giant or Niner or Trek website and tell me that their marketing is any different. Without a doubt they have nicer websites than Lenz does, but there won't be any less spew.

Oh--and thanks for hating on my stoke thread!

MC

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KRob

· #10 · Jul 26, 2010

Looks like fun. That kind of riding could spoil you.

Do some people ride fully rigid DJ bikes on that trail? Looks pretty buff.

sikocycles

· #11 · Jul 26, 2010

I have taken my PBJ to Diablo in NJ and it does great. There are tons of rocks and drops there and I cant feel wheel flex what so ever.
Haters will be haters

Slick&Slam

· #12 · Jul 26, 2010

mikesee said:
You're hilarious

Thanks!

mikesee said:
You're amazing.

Now you're making me blush....

mikesee said:
oh wise one

Flattery will get you nowhere

mikesee said:
what's flexing? Wheels? Tires? Frame? Fork? Or could it be his seatpost (he does sit a lot when cruising) or even seat rails? We await your proclamation.

I saw all of this and at one point he damn near lost it. I would attribute it as much to the wheels as the frame, though, the fact that there aren't any good hoops on the market is reason enough to steer clear of a DH *specific* 29'er for the time being.

mikesee said:
How many 29" DH bikes have you ridden to notice this 'lack of performance'?

My performance issues are more to do with the geo and available components that limit 29 inch fames...

mikesee said:
So yeah, I'm not hip to the marketing spew, but what he's saying *is* based in fact.

The fact is that Lenz is trying to inch it's way into the Park/Lift Assisted scene where there are already plenty of viable options. I see it as more of a whimsical pursuit in which he'd like to profit from the trendy. Touting "the best" is just another way to reel an inexperienced consumer.

mikesee said:
Because there are so few parks and even fewer 29" DH bikes? Maybe?!

The *fact* is that you don't see them.

mikesee said:
Sounds like the reason is that the guys don't like that kind of riding? Looked like (from your vid) fun XC to me. Nothing you'd need a DH bike for.

Nice try...

mikesee said:
Sounds to me like you have no idea what you're talking about. If anything, the PBJ is more at home on steep chunk than buffed out jump lines. It's just that I prefer to ride jump lines at parks because all I have to ride at home is steep chunk.

Since this is your 'specialty', how's about giving us a vid of what you would consider gnar-gnar.. All I've ever seen are vids of you bouncing and flailing about like a fish out of water.

mikesee said:
That may be true, but most likely because so few 29" FR/DH bikes exist to date.

If they were as capable as the website would have me believe, I would have seen one or two. That is simply not the case.

mikesee said:
You haven't even approached a fact yet, and might not know one if you did.

See above.

mikesee said:
It doesn't bother me that you don't like big wheels. Don't ride 'em, eh?

It shouldn't because I do--for situations in which they excel.

mikesee said:
But spouting misinformation because you were offended by marketing?

Why not?

mikesee said:
C'mon. Go to the Specialized or Giant or Niner or Trek website and tell me that their marketing is any different. Without a doubt they have nicer websites than Lenz does, but there won't be any less spew.

They are different. They aren't hyping up a DH *specific* 29'er

mikesee said:
Oh--and thanks for hating on my stoke thread!

MC

Need a tissue?

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SHIVER ME TIMBERS

· #13 · Jul 26, 2010

fun trail....definately looks like a place to hit

mlx john

· #14 · Jul 26, 2010

Unfortunately, this is his MO

Highjack a thread in order to post his videos of his pro-core, gnar gnar ******tastic epicness.

In one word-->tool.

Slick&Slam

· #15 · Jul 26, 2010

mlx john said:
Highjack a thread in order to post his videos of his pro-core, gnar gnar ******tastic epicness.

In one word-->tool.

What a dork

qbert2000

· #16 · Jul 26, 2010 (Edited)

Slick&Slam said:
My performance issues are more to do with the geo and available components that limit 29 inch fames...

more like a 29er is no good for you because of those stumps you call legs bryan. they don't make them in kid sizes yet

Slick&Slam said:
Since this is your 'specialty', how's about giving us a vid of what you would consider gnar-gnar.. All I've ever seen are vids of you bouncing and flailing about like a fish out of water.

you shouldn't talk until you've deleted all copies of that drop you posted where you dead sailored it like a noob and then proceed to whoop like a dude from deliverance. when you continually post vids that you think are gnar and the majority of viewers see as average it shows you're more poseur than anything else. you don't need a highline to ride most of the stuff in the vids you post bryan.

here's the d00sh in questions gnar skills. anyone dropping like this shouldn't be questioning anyone else's skills. thank god for suspension bryan, that's all that saved you there

mlx john

· #17 · Jul 26, 2010

I think your new nickname

should be "boy genius" Bryan.
:idea:

Don't you have some Turner threads to sh*t on?

mikesee

Discussion Starter · #18 · Jul 26, 2010

KRob said:
Looks like fun. That kind of riding could spoil you.

Do some people ride fully rigid DJ bikes on that trail? Looks pretty buff.

I could get used to that sort of spoiled!

I don't know about DJ bikes. I guess I just haven't ridden up there enough to see them yet. I'd think it would take hands/arms of steel to ride a DJ there for long--the braking bumps alone would kill ya, much less the impacts from landings, roots, rocks, etc...

But like I said--I really don't know.

MC

mikesee

Discussion Starter · #19 · Jul 26, 2010

Slick&Slam said:
I saw all of this and at one point he damn near lost it.

You saw all of this?! What a toolbox! If you aren't pushing your limits, you aren't going to occasionally 'damn near lose it'. Boosting tables and railing berms isn't what we do day in and day out. Nor is riding lifts. If we're lucky we do it three times *per year*.

Besides, I've watched that footage a dozen times, not to mention that I was the guy doing the riding/fliming. I still haven't seen where he 'damn near lost it'.

Slick&Slam said:
I would attribute it as much to the wheels as the frame, though, the fact that there aren't any good hoops on the market is reason enough to steer clear of a DH *specific* 29'er for the time being.

You're only proving your ignorance here. Plenty of burly rims available, even for someone as gnarcore as you.

Slick&Slam said:
My performance issues are more to do with the geo and available components that limit 29 inch fames...

For a change you're approaching facts. Geos are evolving but thus far I don't see any major problems with HTA, BB, CS, or WB. Available components? I'd sure like to see more options in single crown long travel forks, as well as more DH-casinged tires. But I'm not gonna piss and moan and wait around when the stuff to ride FR and DH on big wheels already exists. Seems like you just like to piss and moan?

Slick&Slam said:
The fact is that Lenz is trying to inch it's way into the Park/Lift Assisted scene where there are already plenty of viable options. I see it as more of a whimsical pursuit in which he'd like to profit from the trendy. Touting "the best" is just another way to reel an inexperienced consumer.

Are you really this ignorant, or are you just trying to make me feel better about myself?

Lenz has sold maybe 10 PBJ frames. You want to hate on him for that? Give him another 3 years and he'll have recouped his initial investment in the PBJ. I can see where that'd really chap you and the rest of the sphincter police...

Viable options? So improvement shouldn't happen because there are already viable options? We only need one tire, one fork, one frame to satisfy everyone, everywhere?

You can't play ignorant any longer with trolls like that.

Slick&Slam said:
The *fact* is that you don't see them.

Perhaps because you live in a borderline third world country and they just haven't trickled down that far yet?

Slick&Slam said:
Since this is your 'specialty', how's about giving us a vid of what you would consider gnar-gnar.. All I've ever seen are vids of you bouncing and flailing about like a fish out of water.

Blame the rider, not the bike. I'm a hack and have never claimed to be anything but.

Slick&Slam said:
If they were as capable as the website would have me believe, I would have seen one or two. That is simply not the case.

Capable somehow = available and widely distributed? Your logic has failed miserably. Again. ~10 frames made, only available for the last few months, and you expect to see them in your backwater already?

Slick&Slam said:
It shouldn't because I do--for situations in which they excel.

And your experience with 29" DH has been on what bike? With what fork? Rims? Tires?

Wait--what's that? Never ridden one?! Yep--that's what I thought.

Slick&Slam said:
They are different. They aren't hyping up a DH *specific* 29'er

Your wit isn't witty, and you're merely dancing around the point.

MC

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qbert2000

· #20 · Jul 26, 2010

here's some classic mtb123 or Slick&Slam as he now goes by. great skillz bryan.you really should just stfu about other people's riding

dead sailor dropping at it's finest

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