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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a large 2006 Dos Niner with Bontrager Select parts (take-offs from Fisher XCal) and Race wheels, Bonty XR tires. I am still doing some head-to-head ride testing to compare it to my Independent Fabrications 26" bike, but one thing that I notice is when I compare them weight-wise (the pick up test) the Dos feels heavy. The IF has nice parts - XT/XTR, King hubs - so it is not a fair comparison to the very low-end Bontrager stuff, but I am curious what I can get the Dos down to if I start putting light (but reasonable) parts on it.

In theory, the frames weigh the same, the Reba is within 100 grams of my Fox F80RLT, so the main weight difference would be the wheels and tires, so I should be looking at a difference of a pound only, maybe a bit more. So, what kind of weights are you all seeing with your Dos Niners?

As an aside, my first real head-to-head loop test was pretty much a tie. I do a standard loop of about 35 miles, with pavement, dirt road, doubletrack jeep road, maybe 3000 feet of climbing. Takes about 2.5 hours to do. My time on the Dos was 1:20 slower on the dirt road climb, but only 50 seconds slower overall, so I made up time on the jeep road. The IF ride was done on a very dry day, while the Dos test was done the day after a heavy rain, so the dirt road and trail were very damp to wet everywhere. Not the best controlled conditions, but the pseudo-science testing will continue - next loop will be a more technical singletrack loop, plus another ride on the Dos on a dry day.

The Dos Niner certainly feels better to me, but does it go faster, or at least the same speed as the IF? That is what I am trying to find out.

Happy Trails!!!

Steve
 

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gabbard said:
I have a large 2006 Dos Niner with Bontrager Select parts (take-offs from Fisher XCal) and Race wheels, Bonty XR tires. I am still doing some head-to-head ride testing to compare it to my Independent Fabrications 26" bike, but one thing that I notice is when I compare them weight-wise (the pick up test) the Dos feels heavy. The IF has nice parts - XT/XTR, King hubs - so it is not a fair comparison to the very low-end Bontrager stuff, but I am curious what I can get the Dos down to if I start putting light (but reasonable) parts on it.

In theory, the frames weigh the same, the Reba is within 100 grams of my Fox F80RLT, so the main weight difference would be the wheels and tires, so I should be looking at a difference of a pound only, maybe a bit more. So, what kind of weights are you all seeing with your Dos Niners?

As an aside, my first real head-to-head loop test was pretty much a tie. I do a standard loop of about 35 miles, with pavement, dirt road, doubletrack jeep road, maybe 3000 feet of climbing. Takes about 2.5 hours to do. My time on the Dos was 1:20 slower on the dirt road climb, but only 50 seconds slower overall, so I made up time on the jeep road. The IF ride was done on a very dry day, while the Dos test was done the day after a heavy rain, so the dirt road and trail were very damp to wet everywhere. Not the best controlled conditions, but the pseudo-science testing will continue - next loop will be a more technical singletrack loop, plus another ride on the Dos on a dry day.

The Dos Niner certainly feels better to me, but does it go faster, or at least the same speed as the IF? That is what I am trying to find out.

Happy Trails!!!

Steve
You didn't mention what your Dos bike weighs as it is currently built. Obvious places to save weight are with anything that rotates. You use the word "reasonable", but that word means different things to different folks in terms of $$$ and the hunt for those perfect parts.:D Or the Orbea Alma carbon frame:cool: .

You want to spend $795, then Bike29.com's tubeless wheelset...

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•Stan's ZTR 355 rim, with black DT Super Comp triple butted spokes and DT 240 IS 6-bolt disc hubs
•Front weighs 779g, rear is 902g, both with tape, Stan's rim strip and valve stem
•Are You Kidding Me? That is the real weight!
•Wheel QRs not included

http://tinyurl.com/jqgxs
=====

Toss a pair of the Crows on those wheels (about 470 - 500 grams per tire) and you've just given the rolling portion of your bike a weight loss diet 2-3 pounds. Is that reasonable? Could be for some.

Or the American Classic wheelset:

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IS 6-bolt disc mount Front 773g, rear 867g

Add rim tape, tubes and tires and enjoy a very similar weight loss diet.

http://tinyurl.com/l2e5f
=====

My XL Dos Niner (2006 version) with a 80mm Reba varies in weight depending on the tires/tubes. It's usually around the 26 - 27 pound mark, as tire/tube choice takes me up and down the scale. I run the XR 1.8's, the XR 2.25's (use 2 front tires), the Crows and the Nano's on the Dos depending on the race/terrain. I also have 26" superlite tubes as well as 29" tubes and slime filled 29" tubes.

I would imagine a 25 - 27 pound range for your size L frame and build is a reasonable target range.

BB
 

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Fo' Bidniz in da haus
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gabbard said:
I have a large 2006 Dos Niner with Bontrager Select parts (take-offs from Fisher XCal) and Race wheels, Bonty XR tires. I am still doing some head-to-head ride testing to compare it to my Independent Fabrications 26" bike, but one thing that I notice is when I compare them weight-wise (the pick up test) the Dos feels heavy. The IF has nice parts - XT/XTR, King hubs - so it is not a fair comparison to the very low-end Bontrager stuff, but I am curious what I can get the Dos down to if I start putting light (but reasonable) parts on it.

In theory, the frames weigh the same, the Reba is within 100 grams of my Fox F80RLT, so the main weight difference would be the wheels and tires, so I should be looking at a difference of a pound only, maybe a bit more. So, what kind of weights are you all seeing with your Dos Niners?

As an aside, my first real head-to-head loop test was pretty much a tie. I do a standard loop of about 35 miles, with pavement, dirt road, doubletrack jeep road, maybe 3000 feet of climbing. Takes about 2.5 hours to do. My time on the Dos was 1:20 slower on the dirt road climb, but only 50 seconds slower overall, so I made up time on the jeep road. The IF ride was done on a very dry day, while the Dos test was done the day after a heavy rain, so the dirt road and trail were very damp to wet everywhere. Not the best controlled conditions, but the pseudo-science testing will continue - next loop will be a more technical singletrack loop, plus another ride on the Dos on a dry day.

The Dos Niner certainly feels better to me, but does it go faster, or at least the same speed as the IF? That is what I am trying to find out.

Happy Trails!!!

Steve
sounds like me....I like the Dos but mine i HEAVY....i wish i had weighed it at the shop but i am sure it is at least 28 lbs with the crappy deore wheelset, evolve components, etc....

ordered my first 2 parts for it, though not for weight reasons, cause i cant ride with narrow bars anymore. makes me feel like a T-rex on anything shorter than 690mm nowadays.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
the low end and heavy parts add up

FoShizzle said:
sounds like me....I like the Dos but mine i HEAVY....i wish i had weighed it at the shop but i am sure it is at least 28 lbs with the crappy deore wheelset, evolve components, etc....

ordered my first 2 parts for it, though not for weight reasons, cause i cant ride with narrow bars anymore. makes me feel like a T-rex on anything shorter than 690mm nowadays.
This is fairly obvious, but it is funny how the the cumulative effect of low-end parts can add up. I pick up a heavier stem and think "well, it is only about 1/5 of a pound heavier than my WCS stem" However, you do this 20 times with heavy tubes, tires, rims, stem, saddle, etc., and you suddenly have a bike that weighs 4 pounds more than some flashy ride. Or 8 pounds more than that miracle bike weighing in at 21.5#.

Steve
 

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Fo' Bidniz in da haus
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gabbard said:
This is fairly obvious, but it is funny how the the cumulative effect of low-end parts can add up. I pick up a heavier stem and think "well, it is only about 1/5 of a pound heavier than my WCS stem" However, you do this 20 times with heavy tubes, tires, rims, stem, saddle, etc., and you suddenly have a bike that weighs 4 pounds more than some flashy ride. Or 8 pounds more than that miracle bike weighing in at 21.5#.

Steve
Steve, you are so right! I did not believe the cumulative effect myself till I did a weight weenie project lately.

I will s...l...o...w...l...y ligthen up the Salsa. I am replacing the bars with some DH carbon bars which I will cut to 685mm. Replacing the stem with a Hope stem; not the lightest, but I dont skimp on stems. I also picked up a 10-pack of Specialized Turbo tubes to give the lightweight tubes another go at it. Even compared to reasonably weighted 29er tubes, this will save me 0.4 lbs at the wheels.

My goal is probably about 25 lbs or so I suppose....will probably drop the front der I am guessing too....and so on.....
 

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Mine:

Parts spec:
- 18" Frame
- Reba SL fork at 80mm
- Hope Pro 2 hubs/Salsa Delgado Disc rims/DT Comp Spoke wheelset with Kenda Klaws
- SRAM X9 rear der. and X7 rear shifter. I'm running 1X9 with stock Deore front der. working as chainguide until my JumpStop and Salsa bashring arrive later this week
- Avid BB7 brakes
- Salsa S.U.L. scandium 90mm stem and Pro Moto 11* sweep bars
- Bonty X-Lite ACC carbon post (soon to be replaced by a Thomson)
- WTB Rocket V race saddle
- Crank Bros Smarty pedals (happened to have lying around - will be regular Eggies soon)

It comes out to 26.1 pounds as is. With my Eggs, new Ignitors, and chainrings lost later this week, it should come down to ~ 25.5 or so. :thumbsup:

Personally, this bike feels lighter and faster than anything I've thrown a leg over. (except for maybe Susie McGohnagle in HS, but that's another story:nono: )
 

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burner said:
can you post a build list & more pics?
Please take note I'm 144 lbs and am historically easy on parts:


Titec Pork Rinds
Sram 9.0sl faux carbon shifters
Easton EC90 flat bars
Magura Marta 160mm F/R
Control Tech road stem 120mm
King Headset Ti bolt
White Bros BW internally modded to 68mm, special weight oil
American Classic Ti BB Square Taper
American Classic 5-arm cranks 2x9
Ritchey 42t, FSA 29t, Alloy bolts
Ultegra FD
Egg Beater 1st gen Stainless pedals
Salsa Lip Lock collar
American Classic Ti road post
Sella Italia Flight TT (broken in :D)
Dura-Ace Chain
SRAM X.9 RD med cage
XTR 12-34 Ti Cassette
Kenda Karma's (stretch for a week with Tubes)
Stan's No Tubes 26" strips, 2 scoops per tire
IRD Cadence rims 32h Silver
DT Revolution with Blue alloy locking nips
American Classic Disc hubs
American Classic Stainless skewers
Stan's AL rotors with Stan's pads
Nokon Black/Silver Cable set
American Classic bottle Cages x2
Cinelli cork wrap for chainstay

First pic and above race photo as listed
Second pic before an Ultra with Stainless rotors
Third pic in AZ with the training wheels (CPX 33s and Bonti 2.2s)
 

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Africa Dos

My Dos now has two rides on it since arriving in Kenya two days ago. There have been exactly 4 29ers in Kenya (that I know of) and I have owned all of them. Having ridden and owned Fisher Hardtails, Sugar, chi-ti custom,Lenz Leviathan, Karate Monkey and now the Dos, I think I have finally found the bike for my type of riding and riding style.
The terrain I ride tends to be rough (rocky) and includes lots of climbing and descending. I like to ride fast and most rides are two hours or less.
For me, the dos is the right balance of suspension, weight, and efficiency. For me, riding rigid slows me down in the rough stuff, and full suspension is just too innefficient when climbing (at least the sugar and lenz I have owned.)
While the Dos is nearly perfect, I hope to one day own a ybb in my size. I can't think of anything better, even if it is 20yr old technology!

Here is my build:
18" 2005 Dos Niner
Reba SL
king HS
Mustang/American classic/Motoraptor tubeless wheelset w/ LOTS of sealant
Easton carbon post,
Bonty ti saddle
Ritchey WCS stem
Jones hbar
XTR shifters
XT r. derailleur
SRAM f. Derailleur
SRAM PC 69 chain
AVID BB7 disc brakes w/ full length housing
XT Crankset/bb
trek bat cages
Look 4x4 pedals
Inner tube chainstay protector (wrapped)

Complete weight 26lbs

Questions: How do I keep this bike quiet? The rubber on the chainstay helped a lot, but every time a cable or housing slaps a tube (particularly the rear brake housing on the top tube) it is loud and annoying. Also, what's with the oversized cable stops on the top tube. Is there any way to turn them into an effective cable guide for my rear brake? Finally, this has been beat to death, but tire clearance with the moto is very poor on the '05 dos. Fine if it's dry, but I was filling my show with mud as the stays cleaned my tire with ever turn the other day. Very annoying and like riding with your brake on.
 

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n8ofire said:
Questions: How do I keep this bike quiet? The rubber on the chainstay helped a lot, but every time a cable or housing slaps a tube (particularly the rear brake housing on the top tube) it is loud and annoying. Also, what's with the oversized cable stops on the top tube. Is there any way to turn them into an effective cable guide for my rear brake? Finally, this has been beat to death, but tire clearance with the moto is very poor on the '05 dos. Fine if it's dry, but I was filling my show with mud as the stays cleaned my tire with ever turn the other day. Very annoying and like riding with your brake on.
Didn't your frame come with a little packet of goodies that include various cable guides in different sizes? Maybe I lucked out when I bought my 2006 Dos frame because it came with such a packet of goodies. If not, there are always zip ties.:thumbsup:

Tire clearance is what it is on the 2005 Dos. It wouldn't hurt to pick up a rear XR 1.8 to use for those muddy days. Not the greatest volume tire, but it cuts through the mud down to the dry and even with mud build up should give you better clearance back there on those mud days.

BB
 

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gabbard said:
I do a standard loop of about 35 miles, with pavement, dirt road, doubletrack jeep road, maybe 3000 feet of climbing. Takes about 2.5 hours to do. My time on the Dos was 1:20 slower on the dirt road climb, but only 50 seconds slower overall, so I made up time on the jeep road.

The Dos Niner certainly feels better to me, but does it go faster, or at least the same speed as the IF? That is what I am trying to find out.
The two bikes were within a minute of each other on a 2.5 hour course? I think you have your answer.

Heck, even riding the same bike I see day-to-day variations of 2-3 minutes on my 55 minute commute, even with no apparent change in conditions.

As for weight, parts are going to be the big factor here. The Dos weighs just a touch over 4 pounds: that's half a pound to a pound more than most aluminum hardtails, but lighter than the lightest production steel 29" hardtail (VooDoo) -- and more than a pound lighter than the lightest 29" dualie (Lenz Leviathan). Get some lighter wheels and maybe a few other parts, and enjoy the ride.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
it is a tie, with an asterisk

GlowBoy said:
The two bikes were within a minute of each other on a 2.5 hour course? I think you have your answer.

Heck, even riding the same bike I see day-to-day variations of 2-3 minutes on my 55 minute commute, even with no apparent change in conditions.

As for weight, parts are going to be the big factor here. The Dos weighs just a touch over 4 pounds: that's half a pound to a pound more than most aluminum hardtails, but lighter than the lightest production steel 29" hardtail (VooDoo) -- and more than a pound lighter than the lightest 29" dualie (Lenz Leviathan). Get some lighter wheels and maybe a few other parts, and enjoy the ride.
I agree, from a poorly done single test, I would say that the Dos was as fast in equivalent or slower conditions. In fact, I think that it fits better, feels better, climbs technical and not-so-technical trails better. 1 minute out of 150 minutes is easily overwhelmed by how I felt during that day, was I tired, how wet was the trail, etc. One of my goals with this bike was a bike that was as fast or faster on the flats, while rolling better through rough stuff. It does the latter quite well, and is faster through technical and bumpy/loose conditions. But, as a quantitative nerd-type, I would like to see how it compares on flat to rolling jeep trails and singletrack. It doesn't really matter, as I don't get paid to do this, so it is just more of the fun of bikes and cycling.

Steve
 

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Mine is built up with a Reba Race, WTB LaserDisc wheels, Avid BB-7s, some crappy old Bonty RaceLite cranks, and SRAM x-9 derailleurs/shifters. Plus some low-end bars, stem, post, etc., and a Flite saddle. Total weight is around 26.75 lbs with Kenda Karmas and tubes. I could probably lose a pound or so by replacing the cheapy bits without breaking the bank too much, but for now it's built up with a lot of surplus stuff I had lying around.
 

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n8ofire said:
Questions: How do I keep this bike quiet? The rubber on the chainstay helped a lot, but every time a cable or housing slaps a tube (particularly the rear brake housing on the top tube) it is loud and annoying.
That cable slapping on the top tube was very annoying. One strip of electrical tape around the housing/tube did the trick.
 

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Another option...

DirtSnake said:
That cable slapping on the top tube was very annoying. One strip of electrical tape around the housing/tube did the trick.
An adhesive-backed disc brake hose cradle works great for this too...

I've also wrapped my right chainstay with a 2-inch wide strip of innertube. The rubber does a good job of quieting the chainslap, and they last about 6 months of hard riding before needing to be replaced (not to mention the fact that they're free -- just cut up an old tube that has too many holes to patch).

I've loved both of my Dos'. They've been totally reliable, reasonably light (my '06 large is about 26-27lbs, depending on tires), very lively and responsive, and is a great xc/marathon race bike for midwestern courses. I'm a big fan...

Cheers,
mg
 

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