Wow, that does look pretty dramatic. I wonder what it actually looks like with a rider and some damping. I haven't seen anyone complaining about the braking on a HL or DHR (or a TNT RFX for that matter). It'd be interesting to see/do a back to back comparison with a floater to see what difference it may make. Tscheezy will probably make one out of whalebone and moose hide and be the first to test it out. :thumbsup:SSINGA said:Discuss
I think that they already know that people know there bikes are $hit...errrrr...I mean...have that little braking issue. I think it's pretty ballsy of them to admit that weakness and I give them credit for actually doing something to fix it. It'd be interesting to see how their sales go...whether more people opt for the upgrade, or they lose sales because people can't afford the upgrade. Not that Kona would actually share that info with the public. I guess if Kona drops the DOPE system in the next model year we'll know that the market didn't bite.wilks said:kona are basically saying unless you have the DOPE system their bikes are $hit, that aint smart marketing......
Man that Video has doped me out I think I'll (KISS)Watch the video - very dramatic results but is it need on the Turner?? Discuss
Good points CC, but I bet the caliper was mounted on the chainstay cause they just couldn't mount it in a standard IS fashion due to the floating brake. I'm not sure mounting the caliper at the IS location OR on the chainstay would make any diff though cause both are still the chainstay right? I bet for certain riding cond's the floating brake would definitely make a diff on my TNT RFX, like at Keystone or the shuttle ride we do here.cactuscorn said:well im impressed. very impressed even. but before i sell all my turners and bid ya farewell for the kona forum, allow me to play devils advocate for a moment, i mean, for a bit.
by the looks of that vid dew got super clever and mounted a 22mm c/s mount hayes caliper as the non dope stopper on the same rotor as the standard IS caliper used for the dope. not a bad way to simplify the demo and show folks the same rig was used in both tests. but this is where my question stems from.
i do know that a caliper mounted from a clockwise point at roughly 270 deg (hayes) will react diferently with the rotation of a rotor to a caliper mounted at roughly 45 deg (IS). you can try this with a cd and yer fingers. simply hold the cd in the center, pinch it in both or any variety of places with yer other hand, then turn it as a brake rotor would turn. its super important to try and hold the center of yer "rotor" on a even plain. now see how each position reacts? the hayes caliper really trys to lift the axel point up and forward just like dews vid while the IS calipers reaction is minimal at best.
so my question is, does konas test rig show 2 real world results in a controlled enviornment or 2 very different parameters? it seems like we have a dog and a cat here but im also not the brake engineer either.
also, please understand im not sayin dew and the kona guys are tryin to dupe us with dope. if im right, and i think i am, the demo could be a honest mistake, slightly exagerated test results and hopeful marketing.
Yeah, which of you Homers have both stay sets? Lets see a DOPE style demo!Bikezilla said:It's an interesting test. I can't believe after all the handwringing, debate, graphs, and theorizing, nobody thought of simply removing the damper to demonstrate braking effects. Kewl!
Rich, Yeah that's what I was saying.... your point about the hardtail and whole rotational moment is something I didn't think of. Good call.lidarman said:but most of that is normally offset by the spring force and compression damping in the shock, the rest is transferred to the frame.
I got the typical zealous drive and didn't read all the posts before adding my two-cents.Bikezilla said:Rich, Yeah that's what I was saying.... but your point about the hardtail and whole rotational moment is something I didn't think of. Good call.
I think an even more interesting test would be to observe the suspension behavior under braking when it is slightly compressed. It could be that the floater is causing some jacking, or extension, which I would not say is desirable. It may give you more traction, but it may throw you over the bars on steep descents. I'll stick to brake squat.lidarman said:I guess I would like to see the effect with the shock in a normal setup. In fact, one should be able to put their bike on a stand, put a zip tie on the shock, measure the defection doing this and from this, calculate the force.