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Don't really get the whole SS and simplicity thing...

3277 Views 70 Replies 40 Participants Last post by perttime, Jun 19, 2009

CoastieTX

Discussion Starter · Jun 16, 2009

It seems a lot of people are lured into the single speed thing for its simplicity. Based on my experiences and research on eccentric bottom brackets and/or sliders, eccentric hubs, etc., I'd say a single rear derailleur and standard bottom bracket is by far a less problematic arrangement. It seems that with EBBs, it's the luck of the draw whether you get one that's perfect or one that slips and creaks no matter what, and the other devices which tension the chain by moving the rear wheel have brake alignment issues.

That being said, I just don't understand the allure of SS for simplicity's sake. A 1x9 arrangement with a standard bottom bracket seems so much more reliable, and it's more functional, to boot.

When I bought my Niner, I intentionally avoided the SIR because, even though it's more versatile, I wanted nothing do do with the EBB, even the newer one which people are having issues with BTW. The MCR with its standard bottom bracket seemed a safer bet, and one I don't regret.

I know some like SS because it makes you a stronger rider, but I'm not so sure about the argument that your bike is simpler or more reliable.

Thoughts?

1 - 20 of 71 Posts

chumbox

· #2 · Jun 16, 2009

Clearly you have never had an EBB let alone a good one. I ride a cheap one. I set it and forget it with no creaking, worst case I can wrap it in plumbing tape and problem solved.

All I really do is lube my chain and pump my tires every now and again so if you saying that isn't simplier than adjusting gears, snapping derailluers, checking fork pressures, less efficient chain lines and myriad of other things then you have done little research and clearly have never owned a decent SS.

I can easily say this is the lowest maintenance bike I have ever owned and it is the cheapest.

Each to their own though so enjoy 1x9 as we are all riding that's really all that matters.

playdead

· #3 · Jun 16, 2009

it's all about the looks for me
:thumbsup:

DanD

· #4 · Jun 16, 2009

CoastieTX said:
It seems a lot of people are lured into the single speed thing for its simplicity. Based on my experiences and research on eccentric bottom brackets and/or sliders, eccentric hubs, etc., I'd say a single rear derailleur and standard bottom bracket is by far a less problematic arrangement. It seems that with EBBs, it's the luck of the draw whether you get one that's perfect or one that slips and creaks no matter what, and the other devices which tension the chain by moving the rear wheel have brake alignment issues.

That being said, I just don't understand the allure of SS for simplicity's sake. A 1x9 arrangement with a standard bottom bracket seems so much more reliable, and it's more functional, to boot.

When I bought my Niner, I intentionally avoided the SIR because, even though it's more versatile, I wanted nothing do do with the EBB, even the newer one which people are having issues with BTW. The MCR with its standard bottom bracket seemed a safer bet, and one I don't regret.

I know some like SS because it makes you a stronger rider, but I'm not so sure about the argument that your bike is simpler or more reliable.

Thoughts?

I challenge you to a rear flat change race! Draw!
Edit: The above is purely in response to the brake alignment issues. To address other things I just have run of the mill horizontal drop outs. Wheel never slides after being snugged up, no EBB to creak, which, I like you try to avoid. I've had to pull apart and clean too many to resolve creaking issues to be drawn into a frame with one, though it wouldn't keep me from buying my dream frame if that were the only option. Single speed is for sure lower maintenance, one less cable to get gunked up, no hanger to bend, no shifter to smash on a rock when I yard sale it.

ISuckAtRiding

· #5 · Jun 16, 2009

i dont do crap to my bike. i have horizontal dropouts, and it is ZERO maintanence. My geared bike hasnt worked since 2006.

CoastieTX

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jun 16, 2009

chumbox said:
Clearly you have never had an EBB let alone a good one.

I had whichever EBB comes with Santa Cruz's Chameleon and no matter what was done to it, after an hour's session of bunnyhopping or dropping, it would slip and creak something fierce. The poor guys at the LBS tried everything, but to no avail.

I've read way, way too many EBB horror stories, and not just from newbies but experienced riders and wrenches.

That's why I'm saying that I think a rear derailleur can certainly be a simpler and more reliable thing to have to live with than an EBB, and it makes the bike more functional, IMHO.

That just makes me wonder if riding a SS is more about what you enjoy and possibly making a statement, more than it really is about keeping things simple.

ernesto_from_Wisconsin

· #7 · Jun 16, 2009

you don't have to clean dirreliurs or angst about ghost shifting - boo!

zieglebeet

· #8 · Jun 16, 2009

I ride twice a week with a large group ride (20+ riders) - year round. The terrain includes lots of chaparral, mud, and sand. The trails are littered with punchy climbs and lots of speed changes, i.e. lots of shifting. The pace is always race pace. Under those conditions, a geared rider is having to walk their bike out weekly due to sucked chains, torn off derailleurs, and broken spokes and cables. The geared riders must do a complete chain and derailleur clean after each ride. Cassettes last about 3-4 months.

All of our rides end up on short (100 yard or less sections) that require dismounting (deep sand, steep climbs) so being able to shoulder your bike comes in handy (20llbs or less vs. 25+lbs or more) makes a difference on my rides.

With hydraulic brakes and SS, it's just a quick lube and wipe. Chain change once a year. Cog = $20 -30 for high end, not $60-100 for cassette. No cable changes needed. Rear wheels are built with symmetrical dish.

I ride rigid (because our trails are not very rough), so another level of simplicity arises. No fork tuning and maintenance. No remembering to lock out and then unlock out.

If your trails don't require long extended climbs, or lots of flat, slightly downhill, or pavement riding seriously consider a SS. You just ride.

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SilverBullet

· #9 · Jun 16, 2009

i don't do crap to my bike. i have horizontal dropouts, and it is ZERO maintanence. My geared bike hasn't worked since 2006.

Ditto. I've got a belt drive, and haven't touched the 06' Klein Attutude XX 1x9 since I got the Longboard. Just got a rigid fork today. Good bye 100mm. Love it. SSimplicity.

ISuckAtRiding

· #10 · Jun 16, 2009

CoastieTX said:
I had whichever EBB comes with Santa Cruz's Chameleon and no matter what was done to it, after an hour's session of bunnyhopping or dropping, it would slip and creak something fierce. The poor guys at the LBS tried everything, but to no avail.

I've read way, way too many EBB horror stories, and not just from newbies but experienced riders and wrenches.

That's why I'm saying that I think a rear derailleur can certainly be a simpler and more reliable thing to have to live with than an EBB, and it makes the bike more functional, IMHO.

That just makes me wonder if riding a SS is more about what you enjoy and possibly making a statement, more than it really is about keeping things simple.

Who says EBB's are the cat's meow? That's like saying geared bikes suck because of that old Biopace eliptical chainring system Shimano came out with 15+ years ago.
I've never had problems with chain tensioners on horizontal dropouts. No offense to anyone using EBB's, i never used one, just pointing out that if one system doesnt work, it doesnt mean the whole concept is garbage.

ShadowsCast

· #11 · Jun 16, 2009

This thread is great. SS bikes are clearly more complex than geared bikes and really only ridden to make a "statement" because you don't bother to clean/torque your EBB... :thumbsup:

Maybe I'm missing it, where is the complexity in tightening a bolt or two (or four I with sliders I suppose...)? How many bolts and screws are on just your RD? Not to mention the chain guides and shifters and cables and all that added "reliability" you have to lug around.

Great thread.

CoastieTX

Discussion Starter · #12 · Jun 16, 2009

ISuckAtRiding said:
Who says EBB's are the cat's meow? That's like saying geared bikes suck because of that old Biopace eliptical chainring system Shimano came out with 15+ years ago.
I've never had problems with chain tensioners on horizontal dropouts. No offense to anyone using EBB's, i never used one, just pointing out that if one system doesnt work, it doesnt mean the whole concept is garbage.

I'm not saying the whole concept is garbage. I went with the Chameleon because it was versatile and I was thinking I'd like to try it SS someday. After that experience, I came to the conclusion there was nothing simple about it at all. In fact, it was the most problematic bike I've ever had.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against SS and would like to try it, but I won't even consider a frame with an EBB. The Trans AM is looking good, though.

CHUM

· #13 · Jun 16, 2009

you sir.....are clearly far to intelligent to be riding a SS......

leave it solely to us simple Luddites so we may roll in the mud peacefully (and quietly) as to not disturb your mental fortitude while selecting the correct gear for a 9% grade vs. a 6.5% grade

ISuckAtRiding

· #14 · Jun 16, 2009

CoastieTX said:
I'm not saying the whole concept is garbage. I went with the Chameleon because it was versatile and I was thinking I'd like to try it SS someday. After that experience, I came to the conclusion there was nothing simple about it at all. In fact, it was the most problematic bike I've ever had.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against SS and would like to try it, but I won't even consider a frame with an EBB. The Trans AM is looking good, though.

dont back pedal now, stick with it! SS sucks!

MissoulaGriz

· #15 · Jun 16, 2009

I always get a huge smile on my face when I pass riders on a climb who are fiddling with shifters, trying to find a climbing gear and listening to the grinding of their derailleurs and trying to lock down their suspension while I mash by on a rigid SS. I doubt any of those folks have the time to think about what type of "statement" I'm making when I pass them by.

Maintenance for me is probably the same as any rider before a ride: make sure headset and stem are tight, check tire pressure and brakes, spin the wheels a few times and off I go.

It's all personal preference at the end of the day and hey, if you are on a bike out there doing your thing then I've got nothing but respect for you regardless of what you ride.

DanD

· #16 · Jun 16, 2009

ShadowsCast said:
This thread is great. SS bikes are clearly more complex than geared bikes and really only ridden to make a "statement" because you don't bother to clean/torque your EBB... :thumbsup:

Maybe I'm missing it, where is the complexity in tightening a bolt or two (or four I with sliders I suppose...)? How many bolts and screws are on just your RD? Not to mention the chain guides and shifters and cables and all that added "reliability" you have to lug around.

Great thread.

In fairness a rear derailleur has 4 screws/bolts to mess with. 3 of them (B tension, low and high limit screws) need to be messed with once, ever, per bike. The 4th, cable tension, should only need to be messed with at an absolute maximum twice. Not saying that it is simpler than single speed, but really pretty damn simple stuff.

ISuckAtRiding

· #17 · Jun 16, 2009

DanD said:
In fairness a rear derailleur has 4 screws/bolts to mess with. 3 of them (B tension, low and high limit screws) need to be messed with once, ever, per bike. The 4th, cable tension, should only need to be messed with at an absolute maximum twice. Not saying that it is simpler than single speed, but really pretty damn simple stuff.

in a perfect world. tweaking a hanger happens pretty often around here.

banks

· #18 · Jun 16, 2009

Good for you! :thumbsup:

DanD

· #19 · Jun 16, 2009

ISuckAtRiding said:
in a perfect world. tweaking a hanger happens pretty often around here.

In a perfect world EBB's don't creak and slip...and I don't hit my derailleur on rocks. Pretty weak argument.

DanD

· #20 · Jun 16, 2009

CoastieTX said:
I'm not saying the whole concept is garbage. I went with the Chameleon because it was versatile and I was thinking I'd like to try it SS someday. After that experience, I came to the conclusion there was nothing simple about it at all. In fact, it was the most problematic bike I've ever had.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against SS and would like to try it, but I won't even consider a frame with an EBB. The Trans AM is looking good, though.

I would stick with a chameleon but go used to 2006/07 to when they have the new style frame only with horizontal drop outs.

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