Thanks for the info. I have plenty of good roadie shorts and sometimes do wear them under baggies.For shorts I've had great success buying thin, breathable and stretchy outdoor/hiking shorts with belt loops, and wearing them over the top of good multi-panel roadie shorts. The outers I got from Costco for $15 a piece but you can find them almost anywhere. The roadie shorts I usually get from Aero Tech Designs, great US-made shorts whose best are usually 60 or 70 bucks. My third grade math tells me that is $75-85 per, and that is for outstanding quality stuff. These companies charging $180 for a simple lined breathable cargo short and calling it MTB shorts can go chug a bag, it's a ridiculous amount of money.