[856er]

After years of riding F/S bikes,
reading F/S bike test over the years,reading owners reviews on many sites,all pointing to the pluses and minuses of the different designs etc etc,
I come across a first for me,abike which when used in its intended application (High speed XC/big hit trail bike) this complaint/observation,
the suspension is too GOOD (quote,fluid suspension float can distance you from the trail)though the mag test gave it 10/10
this comes from more than one mag test and from (some) owners comments found on some sites plus from enquires to owners I've made,most comments break down into 2 catergorys,first love it,second love it but say its suspension is too good,
the basis of the latter comment is because the suspension system is so good you tend to go a lot faster and hence this is where the trouble lies,you can get into trouble at higher speeds if you come across the unexpected,also mentioned because its so efficient and floats you can feel distanced from the trail and therefore blur vital feedback,
just don't get it (I wanna go faster),BUT no one mentions making the suspension system worse/less efficent though to improve the bike,
only found all this because its a bike I have been considering as a future purchase,
got to feel sorry for some of these engineers after all the effort trying to give us the best they can come up with then get a criticism (all be it small as on the whole they love the bike) for it being too good.still gonna test one but thats not the point,my point is not the merits of the bike because that starts the I don't like it/I prefere this bike etc etc comments it just the fact that there are complaints that something is too GOOD,just don't get it because in the future something even better is gonna come along.

 

[KonaStinky05]

You could use your brakes.

 

[Call_me_Clyde]

Opinions

There are so many opinions and viewpoints about frame design/geometry, suspension design and eficciency, damping characteristics of forks and shocks, etc., etc. that it's damn near imopssible to weed through it all. I can understand why someone might make a comment about a suspension design being so good that you might get yourself in trouble by riding too fast in technical conditions, but it boils down to the individual rider's experience and competence. Put me in a Ferrari, and I'm pretty sure I'll wrap it around a tree on a dangerous curve that an experienced driver would flow through like a hot knife through butter. I would also agree that it's a shame that engineers get flack from people for building something that's too good, but hey, I guess it's human nature for people to *****. Bottom line, the better the bike and it's components are engineered, the better it will perform for the rider at their level.

But hey, that's just my opinion.

Bob

 

[Squash]

It's all personal opinion and rider preference.....

To some people apparently the suspension design you are talking about is too good. I personally can't see it. But then I haven't ridden one either. One of the things that I have found that have a profound affect on perceptions like this are riding style. Think of it like preference in cars. Sports cars have stiff susension, low profile tires, etc. This makes for a rougher ride, but maximizes handling performance and road feed back to the driver. A big luxury car uses much lower spring rates, tires designed for smooth ride and so forth. It basically isolates the driver from most road feed back. Now granted cars aren't mountain bikes, but the parallel is there. Some prefer the sproty feel, some the smooth luxury ride. I think that the riders that are complaining of isolation from the trail are more into 3 to 4 inch travel XC/Race bikes, or at least lean in that direction. These bikes are like the sports car, you need some suspension to take the edge off, but you need to feel the trail too. I'd say those that flat out love the bike are more into long travel cush. It's one of those things. Personaly I prefer the cush and isolation from the trail. Granted it can get you into trouble if you are not paying attention or don't know your limits. I've found also that some people just have to find something to complain about. If that is the only complaint with the design I think maybe someone was just digging for something wrong. Anyway, I'm with you, I don't get it either. But again you are dealing with many different riders with personal preferences. I know when I first switched over from HT to FS I ran my suspension much stiffer than I needed to. But I slowly got used to it and now the squishier the better for me, at least up to a point. I'd say take the reviews with a grain of salt and form your own opinion! Test ride!!!

Good Dirt

 

[Rouleur321]

To some people apparently the suspension design you are talking about is too good. I personally can't see it. But then I haven't ridden one either. One of the things that I have found that have a profound affect on perceptions like this are riding style. Think of it like preference in cars. Sports cars have stiff susension, low profile tires, etc. This makes for a rougher ride, but maximizes handling performance and road feed back to the driver. A big luxury car uses much lower spring rates, tires designed for smooth ride and so forth. It basically isolates the driver from most road feed back. Now granted cars aren't mountain bikes, but the parallel is there. Some prefer the sproty feel, some the smooth luxury ride. I think that the riders that are complaining of isolation from the trail are more into 3 to 4 inch travel XC/Race bikes, or at least lean in that direction. These bikes are like the sports car, you need some suspension to take the edge off, but you need to feel the trail too. I'd say those that flat out love the bike are more into long travel cush. It's one of those things. Personaly I prefer the cush and isolation from the trail. Granted it can get you into trouble if you are not paying attention or don't know your limits. I've found also that some people just have to find something to complain about. If that is the only complaint with the design I think maybe someone was just digging for something wrong. Anyway, I'm with you, I don't get it either. But again you are dealing with many different riders with personal preferences. I know when I first switched over from HT to FS I ran my suspension much stiffer than I needed to. But I slowly got used to it and now the squishier the better for me, at least up to a point. I'd say take the reviews with a grain of salt and form your own opinion! Test ride!!!

Good Dirt

Mark this down as one of the BEST posts ever here at MTBR and one which should be required reading for anyone who is looking for info on a new bike to buy.

I got totally caught up in the type of scenario spelled out above and made the critical mistake of not thinking of ME and MY STYLE of riding when I selected my new bike. As a result, I was as confused and as neurotic as anyone could be and had some huge bouts of buyer's remorse before I even built up the frame, which, by the way, STILL isnt built up.

Things like user reviews and this fad of categorizing bikes into certain categories has really muddled the waters and confused the issue as to which bike to ride and whats best. People are looking DOWNward at the trail and not INWARD at the rider to determine whats best. IMO, this is a huge mistake. Sure, certain bikes are for certain conditions. But not as much as one is led to believe these days and thats troublesome. I saw a post on another board where some guy, on a good 4" trail bike by the way, said he was going to Gooseberry Mesa and someone said "oh...if youre going there you MUST HAVE a "bigger" bike!....youre bike isnt enough!!!!" Bollocks. Maybe for THAT rider it wasnt enough. But for another rider with a different style, a "smaller" bike may be PERFECT.

IMO, you need a certain bike to ride in a certain fashion, NOT to ride what the trail presents. Thats why on so many rides, at least where I am, you see big hit bikes running alongside steep hardtail racers. The difference being not in times to finish or even "fun factor", but the different lines taken by each rider and each riders personal preference. The rider whos "up in the air" has the Bullit. The rider who's not and ENJOYS picking a line through a rocky minefield is on the lighter shorter travel bike. Again, what is good for each INDIVIDUAL. Of course, there are exceptions. And all bikes are better for some situations than others. There is not one bike that truly "does it all", no matter what the manufacturers tell you. But the point of this is to look at the rider and his/her style FIRST AND FOREMOST.....and THEN to what bike is the right way to go, not vice versa.

My 2 cents on the issue......flame away.

 

[Warp]

Isolation from the ground... mmmm... ahhhh.. uh...

You're going thru the adaptation phase to a full susser. I went thru it a while ago when I got my first (and crappy) mtb. You suddenly don't feel feedback from the trail and it's kind of scary on turns, as you don't feel the trail as you should and the bike sinks into its travel due to the outward g-force... feels like a two-wheel drift, don't it??

Adapt, learn to read the NEW signals, remind yourself you're no more on a rigid bike and remember that you'll not lose as much momentum as you did on a HT.

Listen your tires, that's where the key still is at.

 

[drunkle]

...

what bike is it?

after years of reading mba in the eighties, i noticed that the reviews all tended be the same vague, inassailable fluff, that the only interesting articles were how to's (which got recycled every year), photos of new stuff and the advertisements.

it's just a rag, dont get too bothered by it. (same for reader reviews/customer reviews. i just count the reports of things breaking, otherwise, it really makes no sense if joe shmoe loves a thing or not. as long as it doesnt break, it probably does whatever it's supposed to just fine.)

 

[856er]

Agree with everything thats been commented on,
I've been riding full suspension bikes since 1995 and just find it ODD
that a bike in some reviews and comments by some owners can suggest the
suspension performance is too good,one reviews comment
suggested the BIKE could be too good, then they all say they love the bike,
what do they want worse performance,
still gonna test one later in the new year though,
don't want to get in individual comments on any bike its just the
fact we now have riders/reviewers commenting on something being too good.