I used to put up with poor shifting until I started doing my own maintenance. Doesn't matter if it's my old 2x Shimano or my new 1x SRAM, if I can't get it dialed in, I'll start looking for wear. They both shift great.
Does shifting performance even matter any more?
I run SRAM Eagle 1x mainly because I've appreciate what SRAM has done to become a viable competitor to Shimano. Shimano's 12 speed components do seem a bit smoother in shifting. I wonder though whether that difference is even worth considering any more. It seems that both SRAM and Shimano shift pretty reliably. Shifting from both brands are certainly better than old 7-speed and 8-speed stuff did.
Note: I'm referring to drivetrains at the GX or SLX level and above. I do think that Shimano Deore is better performing than SRAM SX and NX.
Note: I'm referring to drivetrains at the GX or SLX level and above. I do think that Shimano Deore is better performing than SRAM SX and NX.
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Shimano and Sram have been pretty interchangeable for me, I have had both in 11s and 12s. But, I have to say AXS has been a revelation to me, it just shifts so instantly and effortlessly.
x2. AXS is a game changer.Shimano and Sram have been pretty interchangeable for me, I have had both in 11s and 12s. But, I have to say AXS has been a revelation to me, it just shifts so instantly and effortlessly.
I purchased a new FS bike in June with Eagle GX and rode it for two months. Unfortunately I was between sizes when I bought it and went with the larger size. After two months I came to the realization the bike was just too large for me. So I sold it and purchased the identical bike in the next smaller size but with XT components.
My thoughts after riding them back to back. Both are excellent and I would have been just as happy if things were reversed. Both have fairly minor pluses and minuses but not enough to sway me to either. I do think the XT shifts ever so slightly better but not enough to really matter. The one thing I do like about the Shimano 10-51 over the Sram 10-52 cassette is the gear ratio spacing at the low end. I find the more evenly spaced gear ratios of the XT more useful for the trails I ride.
My thoughts after riding them back to back. Both are excellent and I would have been just as happy if things were reversed. Both have fairly minor pluses and minuses but not enough to sway me to either. I do think the XT shifts ever so slightly better but not enough to really matter. The one thing I do like about the Shimano 10-51 over the Sram 10-52 cassette is the gear ratio spacing at the low end. I find the more evenly spaced gear ratios of the XT more useful for the trails I ride.
Between the two brands? For me, yes. I find it takes too much force to upshift Shimano XT and XTR, which for some reason is way heavier than SLX (to prevent accidental double-tap?-that's my theory). Makes my thumb sore and I can tap off the same upshifts faster with the SRAM equivalent, due to the much shorter throw and lighter action. Some find Shimano to shift better "under power", but I shift under power all the time, just that I always momentarily let off just a bit while shifting and I never seem to have an issue. Second nature. I can also position the shifter so that I can bump-shift with my thumb-joint, again can't do this on Shimano due to the much increased force. I like bump-shifting when it's cold to avoid taking my hands off the grips (saves warmth). Not a huge deal for most, but it's a nice trick.
IMO, SRAMs X, XO and XX drivetrains, shifters and derailleur springs/action, were much more positive and crisp than any MTB drivetrain before. This didn't really gain traction until they did the 1x versions, but at that point SRAM was getting accolades for shifting so much more positive than Shimano (Shimano didn't even have a1x drivetrain yet). Then, when Shimano went to 1x, they kind of "over-did" the same effect IMO, taking it just a bit too far, again, at least for my fingers. So it's funny when people say that SRAM is "too light", since people were criticizing Shimano for the same thing just a few years before.
Game changer on my fat-bike is grip-shift though. Just so much better for that kind of cold-weather riding and it makes me want to consider it for other riding, but not sure if I'll go that far. Used it in the past of course, but the shifter quality was crap back then and the rest of the drivetrains, especially old SRAM, were really bad.
That's also a big point here. Back in the day, SRAM stuff was just a joke. No one would seriously consider it and no respectable bike mfr was specing a bike with SRAM group sets, when they made them. Then they introduced a 10spd set that was basically the same action/mechanical operation as the upcoming 1x. A few people noticed, but not many, but that architecture was just infinitely better than what they had come up with before. They simply got serious and were all of a sudden a realistic competitor and alternative. Only in the last couple or so years have we seen Shimano drivetrains start to break back into some of the high end builds, fairly evenly split. Not only was Shimano way late to the 1x game with any kind of challenge, the SRAM stuff was finally actually good.
What we really want are drivetrains that shift gears with minimal effort without continual adjustments. IMO, we are pretty much there and BOTH drivetrains work excellent. I think the NW rings, derailleur tension and shifters cut through mud and crud SO much better than years past, that we are doing rides in rivers of mud and the bikes somehow continue to shift perfect over a 50 mile ride. Then you get it home, clean it off, lube the chain, and it's ready for the same again. All of this is way way better than things were under the lesser-gear and non-1x drivetrains. Not to say this is a 1x thing, it's not, just those are some of the benchmark points IME, and it's lovely having drivetrains that work great years down the road, rather than only when new and then requiring continual fidgeting/adjustments.
IMO, SRAMs X, XO and XX drivetrains, shifters and derailleur springs/action, were much more positive and crisp than any MTB drivetrain before. This didn't really gain traction until they did the 1x versions, but at that point SRAM was getting accolades for shifting so much more positive than Shimano (Shimano didn't even have a1x drivetrain yet). Then, when Shimano went to 1x, they kind of "over-did" the same effect IMO, taking it just a bit too far, again, at least for my fingers. So it's funny when people say that SRAM is "too light", since people were criticizing Shimano for the same thing just a few years before.
Game changer on my fat-bike is grip-shift though. Just so much better for that kind of cold-weather riding and it makes me want to consider it for other riding, but not sure if I'll go that far. Used it in the past of course, but the shifter quality was crap back then and the rest of the drivetrains, especially old SRAM, were really bad.
That's also a big point here. Back in the day, SRAM stuff was just a joke. No one would seriously consider it and no respectable bike mfr was specing a bike with SRAM group sets, when they made them. Then they introduced a 10spd set that was basically the same action/mechanical operation as the upcoming 1x. A few people noticed, but not many, but that architecture was just infinitely better than what they had come up with before. They simply got serious and were all of a sudden a realistic competitor and alternative. Only in the last couple or so years have we seen Shimano drivetrains start to break back into some of the high end builds, fairly evenly split. Not only was Shimano way late to the 1x game with any kind of challenge, the SRAM stuff was finally actually good.
What we really want are drivetrains that shift gears with minimal effort without continual adjustments. IMO, we are pretty much there and BOTH drivetrains work excellent. I think the NW rings, derailleur tension and shifters cut through mud and crud SO much better than years past, that we are doing rides in rivers of mud and the bikes somehow continue to shift perfect over a 50 mile ride. Then you get it home, clean it off, lube the chain, and it's ready for the same again. All of this is way way better than things were under the lesser-gear and non-1x drivetrains. Not to say this is a 1x thing, it's not, just those are some of the benchmark points IME, and it's lovely having drivetrains that work great years down the road, rather than only when new and then requiring continual fidgeting/adjustments.
I use a SRAM GX Eagle and I am not really impressed. My cassette has a tooth that clicks (well documented from users for years, mine is on the 5th cog) and it is inconsistent when shifting. Sometimes it shifts flawless, others not so much. I like the shifter but not impressed with much else. For the money I feel it should be better. I wouldn’t buy again.
My 12 speed came with SRAM but I replaced the shifter with Shimano. I find the shifts take much less effort now. Just never loved the tactile clicks of the SRAM shifter. Under my thumb, Shimano can roll gears much more smoothly. Derailleur and cassette are of no consequence.
Because of that, I'm not sold on the AXS shifter. Need more data. However, I am completely sold on an electronic derailleur. I want one yesterday.
Because of that, I'm not sold on the AXS shifter. Need more data. However, I am completely sold on an electronic derailleur. I want one yesterday.
I got used to SRAM Eagle 12 on three bikes, went XT 1x11 on an old frame. I hope the Shimano 1x12 shifting isn’t this harsh and notchy feeling! 🙈🚴🏿♀️ It’s horrible.
Adjust your B screw.I use a SRAM GX Eagle and I am not really impressed. The cassette has a tooth that clicks (well documented from users for years) and not really great shifting. For the money I feel it should be better.
Have you had a chance to try AXS yet?My 12 speed came with SRAM but I replaced the shifter with Shimano. I find the shifts take much less effort now. Just never loved the tactile clicks of the SRAM shifter. Under my thumb, Shimano can roll gears much more smoothly. Derailleur and cassette are of no consequence.
Because of that, I'm not sold on the AXS shifter. Need more data. However, I am completely sold on an electronic derailleur. I want one yesterday.
If you know how to shift properly both shift excellent although there is a different feel for sure. Some people just suck at shifting. Even well seasoned riders, bang bang crunch crunch, ahh kills me.
On 12 speed cable actuated I prefer the SRAM feel. It does takes a bit more focus/awareness on unloading for a really clean shift, especially in a 42-52 jump.
The Shimano will also shift clean when unloaded properly but you get this occasional bang when you do not. I hear a lot of this on e-bikes. A poor shift on the SRAM is crunchier for lack of better words and to me feels like I am causing more cassette damage than the bang of Shimano which seem more derailleur related. Definitely could be wrong here.
I recently switched one bike over to AXS. It took much getting used to as I really liked the mechanical feel of lower lever. When I control the shift to a lower gear mechanically I can ease the push or full push depending on my cadence or unloading of the pedals. I like that.
With AXS you loose all that mechanical feel and the servo just bangs you out a gear. After a while I am fully used to it now and enjoy the servo shifting but not 100% sold, yet. The AXS lever feel also not totally happy with as well (tried both designs).
I also switched the AXS bike over to Sramano, using the AXS system with an XTR cassette and chain. I have to say I am really happy with this setup, easy to dial in. I mainly did this as I prefer the gear spread on the Shimano. I like the 39-45-51 much better compared to the 36-42-52. Especially love extended climbing in the 39-45 not to mention the 45-51 jump, very smooth in those late to shift moments.
Longevity compared to cost, well that may be a different story depending on conditions you ride in and how well you maintain your gear.
On 12 speed cable actuated I prefer the SRAM feel. It does takes a bit more focus/awareness on unloading for a really clean shift, especially in a 42-52 jump.
The Shimano will also shift clean when unloaded properly but you get this occasional bang when you do not. I hear a lot of this on e-bikes. A poor shift on the SRAM is crunchier for lack of better words and to me feels like I am causing more cassette damage than the bang of Shimano which seem more derailleur related. Definitely could be wrong here.
I recently switched one bike over to AXS. It took much getting used to as I really liked the mechanical feel of lower lever. When I control the shift to a lower gear mechanically I can ease the push or full push depending on my cadence or unloading of the pedals. I like that.
With AXS you loose all that mechanical feel and the servo just bangs you out a gear. After a while I am fully used to it now and enjoy the servo shifting but not 100% sold, yet. The AXS lever feel also not totally happy with as well (tried both designs).
I also switched the AXS bike over to Sramano, using the AXS system with an XTR cassette and chain. I have to say I am really happy with this setup, easy to dial in. I mainly did this as I prefer the gear spread on the Shimano. I like the 39-45-51 much better compared to the 36-42-52. Especially love extended climbing in the 39-45 not to mention the 45-51 jump, very smooth in those late to shift moments.
Longevity compared to cost, well that may be a different story depending on conditions you ride in and how well you maintain your gear.
No but I’m looking forward to it… The other thread has me convinced as well.Have you had a chance to try AXS yet?
SRAM XO1 and XX1 just outlast shimano XT and XTR by a factor of 2. The shift smoothness doesn’t factor into my thinking because at the end of the day shifting speed is what I want and SRAM delivers.
You cheated the question.I run SRAM Eagle 1x mainly because I've appreciate what SRAM has done to become a viable competitor to Shimano. Shimano's 12 speed components do seem a bit smoother in shifting. I wonder though whether that difference is even worth considering any more. It seems that both SRAM and Shimano shift pretty reliably. Shifting from both brands are certainly better than old 7-speed and 8-speed stuff did.
Note: I'm referring to drivetrains at the GX or SLX level and above. I do think that Shimano Deore is better performing than SRAM SX and NX.
Does shifting performance matter amongst groupsets that work well? No.
Does shifting performance matter? Yes, clearly, as you're not including any poor performing groupsets in your conversation.
When it comes to upgrades, I prefer suspension, brakes and wheels over drivetrain.
Both, Shimano and Sram work well for me and most of the different feel comes from the shifter.
That being said, on my emtb I downgraded my 12 speed Shimano rather quickly for a Sram 11 speed.
The 12 speed range is too much for ebikes. Don't need it. And the XT derailleur could not make a single good shift under motor load without a loud bang. I could feel the long cage wobbling left and right when that happend. Shifting 2 gears made a sound as if the derailleur just exploded.
So I always stopped peddling for a short moment and than shifted the gears I need.
The little Sram 11 speed derailleur takes shifting under motor load like a champ. Very rarely I here the same bang from it.
Besides this, the overall shifting of the 12 XT was better than the 11 GX, but I can live with that.
Also I agree that shifting on Deore 12 is better than SX, or NX.
But I would not dare to use a 12 Deore derailleur on a real mtb. The cage is stupidly thin and soft.
Even the SX is build like a tank in comparison.
Both, Shimano and Sram work well for me and most of the different feel comes from the shifter.
That being said, on my emtb I downgraded my 12 speed Shimano rather quickly for a Sram 11 speed.
The 12 speed range is too much for ebikes. Don't need it. And the XT derailleur could not make a single good shift under motor load without a loud bang. I could feel the long cage wobbling left and right when that happend. Shifting 2 gears made a sound as if the derailleur just exploded.
So I always stopped peddling for a short moment and than shifted the gears I need.
The little Sram 11 speed derailleur takes shifting under motor load like a champ. Very rarely I here the same bang from it.
Besides this, the overall shifting of the 12 XT was better than the 11 GX, but I can live with that.
Also I agree that shifting on Deore 12 is better than SX, or NX.
But I would not dare to use a 12 Deore derailleur on a real mtb. The cage is stupidly thin and soft.
Even the SX is build like a tank in comparison.
SRAM or Shimano, I'm not sure I even care anymore. They both cracked the code. I've been running X01 on my primary ride for several years, and it is solid. It is not perfect, but that is actually because my bike has a whippy back end and if I'm leaning on it while shifting, it is sometimes a little clunky. An earlier comment noted that X01 outlasts XT by 2 to 1, but in my mind that's hardly a concern considering X01 also costs twice as much. On the lower end of the group spectrum Shimano does seem to work a little better. On a completely unrelated note, the low end SRAM stuff, particularly the SX and NX, look spectacularly cheap and the graphics tacky. I guess Shimano has spoiled us in that regard.
Another person on SRAMano here. After my XT 12 speed rear mech bit the dust I decided to put an X01 AXS upgrade kit on my XT cassette and chain.
I really like the shifting performance of the XT stuff and vastly prefer the gear spacing of Shimano stuff.
So far the X01 rear mech has been awesome. Taken a few hits without issue and just does its job no matter the conditions. The Shifter is really good as well. In our rolling terrain that requires frequent shifts, it's really nice to ditch the "throw" of traditional levers, this is also the huge plus with my AXS dropper.
I really like the shifting performance of the XT stuff and vastly prefer the gear spacing of Shimano stuff.
So far the X01 rear mech has been awesome. Taken a few hits without issue and just does its job no matter the conditions. The Shifter is really good as well. In our rolling terrain that requires frequent shifts, it's really nice to ditch the "throw" of traditional levers, this is also the huge plus with my AXS dropper.
You’ll notice the difference in about five seconds. Whether you like it or not is up to you but the immediacy of the shifting is night and day.No but I’m looking forward to it… The other thread has me convinced as well.
The only analogy I can think of right now is paddle shifting a dual clutch transmission versus rowing a manual transmission. Only car guys might understand that one.
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