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Not an O2 thief.
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I've spent about a month riding my 29'r racer-x and I've yet to test myself in the racing waters this season, but I'm curious as to what is going to happen.

For the past couple seasons I've been training no a 5" Moto-Lite with IRC Kujo DH tires. 5 and 6 hour rides with burley granny gear climbs and long hilly jeep roads. I could tell a huge difference when I hopped back on my 26" racer-x and dropped lots of weight both in the wheels and overall bike weight.

Now that I have the 29'r, I've yet to get back on my Moto-Lite. I have a heavy set of training wheels for the 29'r which puts me up about 3 pounds over the race wheels.

But here is the catch. Those same 5 and 6 hour rides are taking 4 and 5 hours and I don't feel nearly as spent....especially in the upper body. My average HR is also lower. So am I getting what I need out of my training rides? Or will the bike be even faster when I race it and my training rides are still effective?

I'm an Exercise Physiology Masters student, coach, and 23 year mountain biker. I'm a little curious as to what some of you racers out there may think....especially those who have been on 29'rs longer than me. I feel like I'm gonna kill in my first race, but it's still a few weeks away.

What do you guys think about the training effectiveness? It's well known that added resistance during training makes training sessions more effective. Am I still getting the training effect I need from my heavy wheels?
 

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Your legs, heart, and lungs are pretty well clueless about what size your wheels are. If the bike is so much faster than your previeous ride that your training rides have become shorter, perhaps you need to do longer routes.

Or get your high end cardio work on a road bike.
 

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Add some weight

This will work, at least for the hills. One thing that I have done for training for climbing is to ride with one water bottle filled with lead shot. This weighs about 10-15 pounds and is noticeable on the climbs. Doesn't really help on the flats, so you could lower your tire pressure or use the biggest, cheapest tires you can find.

Also, if you want to ride longer, maybe just ride longer. Add 15 miles to your training rides.. Also, the exercise your upper body is taking is probably related to jarring, and less jarring is a good thing. If you want a less damaging upper body workout, lift weights, do core strength work, etc.

Steve
 

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Work Shed...
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or if youre 15 pounds overweight like me, you get a good workout in the hills no matter what!
 

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Rootberry said:
or if youre 15 pounds overweight like me, you get a good workout in the hills no matter what!
That and five water bottles. (two behind the seat in a special mount, one on seatpost, and two on bottomtube).
 

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fastmtnbiker33w said:
But here is the catch. Those same 5 and 6 hour rides are taking 4 and 5 hours and I don't feel nearly as spent....especially in the upper body. My average HR is also lower. So am I getting what I need out of my training rides? Or will the bike be even faster when I race it and my training rides are still effective?

My intuition tells me that you're not getting as good of a workout if your rides are shorter and your heart isn't working as hard. However, you're turning in faster times. So I guess you need to ask yourself what the purpose of your training is. If the goal is simply to be faster, you're already there. If the goal is to gain more fitness, then ride longer or climb more (or both). Doing so would, I believe, also continue to help you improve your speed.
 

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Recovering couch patato
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I've been thinking about putting water in an innertube. Rear wheel sems best for that. If I play a trick with the pump I might be able to get in so much that hardly any air will be needed to get it to pressure. Should ride hard as a rock though, but at least pinchflats won't happen :)
I've been thinking about fun ways to make a bike super slow/heavy without anyone noticing, for group rides and such. A quick calc tells me one fat 29" knobby tire can take some 5kg/11lb of water :)
Pugsley...15kg per wheel?

It won't stop raining outside, first race sunday, not "been able" to ride at all...
 

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bleeding eventually stops
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PLease tell more...fastmtnbiker33w

"It's well known that added resistance during training makes training sessions more effective"
Is this established for cycling? How was it established?
 

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Exactly 1/2 of 2-Epic
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Not a problem

It sounds to me like you are just plain old faster this year.

While there are some riders who will go for more weight in training, a better argument is to ride equipment similar to what you will race. Specificity and familiarity both play roles here.

However you choose to manage intensity (HR, power, PE), stick to that and the planned durations of your plan, all else will fall into place.
 

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dr.dirt said:
"It's well known that added resistance during training makes training sessions more effective"
Is this established for cycling? How was it established?

Isn't that how trainers in a gym work? Bump up the resistance and increase the workout for the same amount of time spent. I would think someone on a low resistance setting is not getting nearly the workout that another one would get on a higher resistance setting. It is not rocket science. Same with climbing hills. Much more of a workout than riding the flats.
 

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bleeding eventually stops
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Not looking for muscle bulk

richwolf said:
Isn't that how trainers in a gym work? Bump up the resistance and increase the workout for the same amount of time spent. I would think someone on a low resistance setting is not getting nearly the workout that another one would get on a higher resistance setting. It is not rocket science. Same with climbing hills. Much more of a workout than riding the flats.
Low resistance and high reps is a different kind of workout than high resistance, low reps. In weights as well as your bike. If you are looking to gain muscle mass sure turn up the resistance. For that matter do some squats, but if you are trying to develop cardiovascular fitness this is not true. Most coaches would say drop down the gears and spin faster for more effeciency.
I think the term I'm not really getting is "more effective."
It seems having heavier wheels is going to give you a different workout. One of the big plugs I've heard for using SS training is that it forces you to spin. And these guys will swear up and down that they are wicked fast once they get back onto their geared steed.
 

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dr.dirt said:
Low resistance and high reps is a different kind of workout than high resistance, low reps. In weights as well as your bike. If you are looking to gain muscle mass sure turn up the resistance. For that matter do some squats, but if you are trying to develop cardiovascular fitness this is not true. Most coaches would say drop down the gears and spin faster for more effeciency.
I think the term I'm not really getting is "more effective."
It seems having heavier wheels is going to give you a different workout. One of the big plugs I've heard for using SS training is that it forces you to spin. And these guys will swear up and down that they are wicked fast once they get back onto their geared steed.
I should have said given the same RPM. If you drop rpm as you increase resistance you don't increase wattage.
A fellow by the name of Lance Armstrong use to shy away from the mountains in his training, preferring instead to stay in the foothills. After he started training in the mountains It sure seemed to help him. He kept his rpm up too. It helped make him faster in the hills on the flats and in the time trials.

Training can get complicated. But usually the one who has the best genetics and rides the most will probably be the fastest rider. Most races tend to be endurance oriented so lots of miles are the first key to being prepared.

I am helping with the local HS track team (I get to hold the clipboards!). I have read some interesting articles on distance running which should convert well to bicycle racing. One coach who has had outstanding results with his team uses a different training approach. Mostly it is running everyday and not doing easy or hard days or taking off days. You just ramp up the speed and the mileage a little bit as time goes on.

I do think hairyballs had a good point in saying you should train on the bike you race on. A lot of bike racing is being able to put out as much energy as possible without tapering off too much. If you switch around bikes too much then you may have to think too much about riding the bike and not about putting the pedal to the metal. That is why Lance rarely crashed. He was in such good shape and so comfortable with his equipment that he could react and stay out of trouble. How many times do people crash or get sloppy because they are at their limit?
 

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no fat chicks
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so you're an exercise physiology masters student and a coach
and you're asking training questions on an internet message board
i guess you must not have taken common sense 101
 

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Not an O2 thief.
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Discussion Starter #16
I like iliketoridebikes message.....I understand all the principles of training and so forth and I've taken a few licks through the world of hard knocks as well.

I'm just trying to get a feel of what others think about "being faster" on a 29'r. Is there a point in "killling it" on all those rides like I was on the 26" bike? Coming home totally trashed and needing 5000Kcal to replace what I burned...

Those guys who are saying I'm faster this year.....am I faster because I'm stronger? Or is it because of the bike? Does it matter? As long as I'm faster...that seems to be the point. If I'm faster because of the bike, then am I really faster? As long as I'm faster than the comp is what matters.

Those who did say I'm probably faster....I owe you a homebrew! I'm not drinking them. Maybe that's why I'm faster.

iliketoridebikes, maybe i'll see you on the trail....as I'm passing you!
 

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Cold. Blue. Steel.
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iliketoridebikes said:
so you're an exercise physiology masters student and a coach
and you're asking training questions on an internet message board
i guess you must not have taken common sense 101
Why are you so angry fella?
 

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bleeding eventually stops
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still not buying it

It's not about work (or wattage if you want to measure work that way) and the relationship between resistance and RPM. What I'm not buying is that increasing resistance increases your training "effectiveness." It just changes it to more strength training and less CV.
Ultimately getting faster involves combinations of both as well as technical skill. It's been like 10years since I've had the time in my life to really concentrate on getting race times down, so I admit I'm out of date.
"It's well known that added resistance during training makes training sessions more effective." I still don't understand what this means. Seems like you could say "added RPMs during training makes it more effective" just as easily.
 

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dr.dirt said:
It's not about work (or wattage if you want to measure work that way) and the relationship between resistance and RPM. What I'm not buying is that increasing resistance increases your training "effectiveness." It just changes it to more strength training and less CV.
Ultimately getting faster involves combinations of both as well as technical skill. It's been like 10years since I've had the time in my life to really concentrate on getting race times down, so I admit I'm out of date.
"It's well known that added resistance during training makes training sessions more effective." I still don't understand what this means. Seems like you could say "added RPMs during training makes it more effective" just as easily.

OK same hill different days. One day I go up it in 30 minutes and the next day 25 minutes. More resistance on day two.
There are several ways to get more resistance. Up the effort, increase the grade for the same amount of time, add weight to you or the bike and go the same speed. Or even turn up a knob on the bike at the gym and go the same RPM.
People who live in the flats tend to have a harder time getting a good workout vs. people who can climb a hill or series of hills out their front door.
The intial question came from a guy who was doing his laps faster. If he found a way to slow himself down by adding resistance then he wouldn't have to look at changing his route, which may be a problem. 50 miles on a road bike is going to be a lot easier than 50 miles on a mountain bike. Adding effort or resistance is the ony way to improve provided you are not over training. Runners bump up their speed and mileage in order to improve.
 

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bleeding eventually stops
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uhhh

so b/c you were faster you had more resistance?....I think you're getting a bit twisted up.
I know what resistance is, I know how you can affect it, how it affects you. what I was looking for was evidence it works for cycling. I wasn't buying that it did b/c strength training is not a central component to most training programs.
I was being lazy, but ended up doing my own search. high resistance training has been demonstrated to help when it is a component of a complex regimine including interval training done during noncompetitive time. this consisted of doing squats.
the question underlies much more physiology you may have understood...sorry for the misconception.

Paton CD. Hopkins WG. Combining explosive and high-resistance training improves performance in competitive cyclists. [Journal Article. Randomized Controlled Trial] Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research. 19(4):826-30, 2005 Nov.
 
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