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Do the 2006 Boxxers have shimmed rebound? Not mentioned on web site...

1090 Views 16 Replies 9 Participants Last post by XSL_WiLL, Dec 15, 2005

Robot Chicken

Discussion Starter · Dec 13, 2005

They spout a lot of babble about the compression damper, but what about the rebound? Is it shimmed or some type of wide range damper similar to shimmed?

If not, will PUSH be doing a mod on this to make it shimmed?

Their web site is confusing, and they don't even have the tech manual to download.

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PUSHIND

· #2 · Dec 13, 2005

Not yet

The stock 2006 Boxxer doesn't use shims on rebound, just on the high end Motion Control compression rod.

As for PUSH, stay tuned......

Darren

Robot Chicken

Discussion Starter · #3 · Dec 13, 2005

PUSHIND said:
The stock 2006 Boxxer doesn't use shims on rebound, just on the high end Motion Control compression rod.

As for PUSH, stay tuned......

Darren

ohhh you guys just love to torture us tech geeks.

you guys would be missing out on some serious market if you didn't take advantage of the massive amount of montion control forks being sold.

Since the damper push rod is the same but longer in the boxxer as it is the pike, I would assume you only have to creat one unit that fits every motion control damper made. How could rockshox have made it any easier for you guys?

Warp

· #4 · Dec 13, 2005

Robot Chicken said:
ohhh you guys just love to torture us tech geeks.

Since the damper push rod is the same but longer in the boxxer as it is the pike, I would assume you only have to creat one unit that fits every motion control damper made. How could rockshox have made it any easier for you guys?

Not really... the fact that the damping is done over a different length of travel, means something and it has to be adjusted to that.

Yeah... Doctor Darren likes to torture us!

Jingleman

· #5 · Dec 14, 2005 (Edited)

Boxxer

...what I have understood on the 2006 Booxers(I have a 2006 Ride) is that they use the identical tecnology as on Pike forks for damping,except for that Black Box Speed Stack cicruit attached under the main Motion Control cartridge.It should further slow the oil flow at high speed impacts to prevent bottoming.What really let me down is the fact that in the manual they say you can change the High Speed Compression by turning the gold knob marked Gate..but the facts say that it is no more than a Gate treshold for low speed compression. ..that works only in the last click for low speed compression(not so useful for a 178mm fork to me..)..and this is eaxctly as it works on a Pike.In the manual you read the the same Gate knob still should change threshold and High Speed compression..but it is not right..I sent an email to a RS service center and they confirmed it..the manual is wrong..and the high speed compresion can be tuned only opening the Black Box Speed Stack and change a special spring washer(or something that sounds so..)..but this part is not available yet.Anyway the rebound works much better than last year..I am now experimenting rebound and compression tunings by changing oil viscosity..I am using 15wt now but it is too thick for me..Tonight I will put some 7,5 wt and see how it works..may be getting a lower oil level after.( I have already changed the stock spring witha softer one..).Bye

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Jayem

· #6 · Dec 14, 2005

RS finally copied marzocchi and fox, by putting a shimmed compression valve in there. Only took 8 years, whereas marzocchi had it 9 years ago with the 1997 Super T.

Warp

· #7 · Dec 14, 2005

Jayem said:
RS finally copied marzocchi and fox, by putting a shimmed compression valve in there. Only took 8 years, whereas marzocchi had it 9 years ago with the 1997 Super T.

While I agree that HSCV is superior... how many World Championships a Super T (or Zokes combined) has??

Maybe they didn't have a real reason for a change.

Also, just like an example, I've seen more Boxxers here in Mexico than comparable Zoke's. While they don't ride as fine as Marzocchi, they're affordable enough... engineering is not only about performance in the industry. Economics count too.

bikerx40

· #8 · Dec 14, 2005

I thought that standard Motion Control essentially nearly creates an adjustable digressive damping curve, where the 'Compression' knob adjusted the low-speed bleed and the 'Floodgate' adjusted the blow-off point.

From the sounds of it, SRAM was putting the shimstack off of the Floodgate port to meter the high-speed oil flow and add a progressive characteristic under very high-speed flow.

Am I way off base here? In the diagram below, I thought (imagined) that Motion Control would be similar to the red curve, and Black Box Speed Stack would be similar to the black curve.

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PUSHIND

· #9 · Dec 14, 2005

RS finally copied marzocchi and fox, by putting a shimmed compression valve in there. Only took 8 years, whereas marzocchi had it 9 years ago with the 1997 Super T.

You make it sound like Marzocchi invented this technology. If you're so intent on bashing RS for improving their forks, should we also bash Marzocchi for "copying" their technology back in '97 from others before them? Shimmed compression and rebound circuits date a little further back than '97.

As for the Speedstack in the Motion Control, it's a standard high speed circuit that can have different characteristics based on how the shim configuration is stacked on the piston.

Darren

Jayem

· #10 · Dec 14, 2005

PUSHIND said:
You make it sound like Marzocchi invented this technology.

Not my intention.

Just that most other suspension companies (even manitou at times) have embraced shimmed setups, just like you provide in your rear shocks. RS tried to hold out for a long time, and god knows what they were thinking.

Warp

· #11 · Dec 14, 2005

Jayem said:
RS tried to hold out for a long time, and god knows what they were thinking.

Again... what would you think when you're winning everything???

On a side note, god knows what it's inside Pro's forks. Maybe very different to what's available from factory.

Jayem

· #12 · Dec 14, 2005

Warp2003 said:
Again... what would you think when you're winning everything???

That may be the problem.

I don't give a cra*p if someone "wins". Who won what race on what bike? I don't care.

XSL_WiLL

· #13 · Dec 14, 2005

PUSHIND said:
You make it sound like Marzocchi invented this technology. If you're so intent on bashing RS for improving their forks, should we also bash Marzocchi for "copying" their technology back in '97 from others before them? Shimmed compression and rebound circuits date a little further back than '97.

As for the Speedstack in the Motion Control, it's a standard high speed circuit that can have different characteristics based on how the shim configuration is stacked on the piston.

Darren

Any ideas about how to make my Pike a bit more progressive? I love the fork to death. Very stiff, and very adjustable. However, the fork feels a little bit too linear. I would love to have something that firms up towards the end of the stroke.

Warp

· #14 · Dec 14, 2005

XSL_WiLL said:
Any ideas about how to make my Pike a bit more progressive? I love the fork to death. Very stiff, and very adjustable. However, the fork feels a little bit too linear. I would love to have something that firms up towards the end of the stroke.

PUSHIND said:
As for PUSH, stay tuned......

The Doctor just said it....

ClaudeFr

· #15 · Dec 15, 2005

PUSHIND said:
Shimmed compression and rebound circuits date a little further back than '97.

oh yes... fifty-Somethin'

what do you think of bikerx40's diagram, about standard motion control (without speed-stack)?
I think it's more correct like this:

where the transition between closed and open gate is horizontal (red) or maybe not (green/yellow), due to a side-effect of the compression of the red plastic "spring"

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KonaStinky05

· #16 · Dec 15, 2005

what exactly is "shimmed"

XSL_WiLL

· #17 · Dec 15, 2005

Warp2003 said:
The Doctor just said it....

Pssh, I like working on my own forks.

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