Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
1 - 20 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
259 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All,

Hoping to get some wisdom. How do you handle the set up of a disc brake caliper mount on a singlespeed with horizontal dropouts, in terms of 1) the brake caliper allowing for the removal of the rear wheel without having to be completely unbolted, and 2) making micro-adjustments in brake caliper position as one may need to tension a stretching chain?

I've seen the sort that people like Spot use which has sliding channels for the brake caliper. Is this the best way? Does someone else have a different solution, short of an integrated caliper mount and dropout (a la Paragon)?

I'm working with a welder who is not (I think) that hip to the disc brake thing. Any suggestions, pics or advise is greatly appreciated,

E
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,763 Posts
Most good builders will not do a disk with horizontal mounts. It is a very poor way of doing it.

Stick with some sort of slider or ebb and you will be much, much more happy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,598 Posts
Look at the Surly Karate Monkey, Soma Juice and Q-ball frames for ideas. Oh and the Redline Monocog and Origin 8 Scout as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
yeah, sliders are best, but if you must, Kirk at bikelugs.com sells a slotted disk brake mount that works. I ran one on my last frame, and i could take my wheel off without any problems, (i have Avid BB7's with the rotor with the flat's on it, don't know what it is called) but i could turn the wheel just right and take it off that way, without loosening anything up.
 

·
Magurified
Joined
·
483 Posts
I have disc tabs with horizontal dropouts on my 24Seven. It does not work very well, as the lower caliper bolt must be undone to get the wheel out. I have some degree of adjustability because I use a front 160mm IS caliper (which would be 140mm on rear) on an A2Z + 20mm (ie for 20mm bigger disc, +10mm to the mounts) adapter to bring it up to the 160mm disc. The A2Z has slight slots in it which give a few millimetres of adjustment range for the caliper.

If you're insistant on disc mount with horizontal dropouts, I would say that the on-one slot dropout system is best, with the caliper mounted between the stays so that the wheel slides backwards out of it.
 

·
Blue Dot Junkie
Joined
·
391 Posts
I'm in a similar situation right now, with a customer who wants horizontals with a disc rather than EBB or sliders. It's a matter of simplicity for him, he doesn't want parts that can move, creak, or get damaged over time.

I'll stay tuned here & show what we come up with.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,491 Posts
I don't think it's "simpler"

It's more old-fashioned, but horizontal dropouts with a slotted disc tab (or whatever kludge you have to use to make things work) is not particularly "simpler" than a sliding dropout, IMO. Certainly not simpler to actually use, nor to build. I've *never* heard of anyone making the Paragons make noise or slip (at least if you use decent hardware and not the crap they supply). The horizontals are going to require chaintugs, a slotted disc mount, and about 5 minutes of work to remove the wheel every time...

</rant>

Sorry. I just think if you want "simple" and old-school, stick with v-brakes with your horizontal dropouts. If you want to enter the modern age and run discs, suck it up and use the right dropouts for the job. Horizontals and discs just don't go together very well. You can *make* it work, but you're much better off just doing something else. Heck, I'd rather run a freakin' chain tensioner and vertical dropouts.

BTW, this is directed at your customer and the OP, Brendan, not you. :)

-Walt

BrendanC said:
I'm in a similar situation right now, with a customer who wants horizontals with a disc rather than EBB or sliders. It's a matter of simplicity for him, he doesn't want parts that can move, creak, or get damaged over time.

I'll stay tuned here & show what we come up with.
 

·
Student of the Bike
Joined
·
788 Posts
We've done a couple...

We think that the paragon sliders are probably the best solution. However, the ones we use ain't cheap(!) so we designed and had made an alternative solution that is not an upcharge with our frames. We've done a couple of frames with them and they turned out pretty good. Both customers said they could get the wheel to slide out of the drop out when aligning the rotor to the low point (trough?) before removing the wheel.

 

·
drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
Joined
·
3,910 Posts
Wow! At the risk of being tarred and feathered by speaking against Walt and PVD, I really like my disc horizontal dropout on my Jamis Exile 29er. Unlike my old Karate Monkey, this has never required me to loosen the disc caliper (no matter where the axle is along the dropout). It also comes with integrated tensioners (i.e., screws). To make wheel removal a little easier, I used the Paul's knurled tensioner screw on the drive side so I can loosen it with my fingers and not need a 3mm allen. The disc side tensioner doesn't need to be loosened.

I really dig this setup because there's no chance of creaking like with an EBB, or slipping/moving around like sliding dropouts.

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,491 Posts
How dare you!

I'm mixin' up a bucket o' tar and getting ready to knife my wife's pillow as we speak!

Seriously, lots of things can work well. The slotted tab has been a great solution for production bikes where there's no way of knowing what kind of brakes the end user wants (and you stand the risk of losing 50% of your sales if both options aren't on the frame). If you're starting from scratch/going custom, though, I think they're silly. If you use the right hardware with a slider, it is *impossible* to make the dropout slip. Plus you can grab the QR lever and pop the wheel out in about 2 seconds. Neato!

If I was going to do the horizontal+disc thing, I'd definitely use the Paul dropouts, though. Still the only ones with decent tension screws around. I don't know why they aren't imitated by everyone.

-Walt
 

·
drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
Joined
·
3,910 Posts
Walt said:
I'm mixin' up a bucket o' tar and getting ready to knife my wife's pillow as we speak!

Seriously, lots of things can work well. The slotted tab has been a great solution for production bikes where there's no way of knowing what kind of brakes the end user wants (and you stand the risk of losing 50% of your sales if both options aren't on the frame). If you're starting from scratch/going custom, though, I think they're silly. If you use the right hardware with a slider, it is *impossible* to make the dropout slip. Plus you can grab the QR lever and pop the wheel out in about 2 seconds. Neato!

If I was going to do the horizontal+disc thing, I'd definitely use the Paul dropouts, though. Still the only ones with decent tension screws around. I don't know why they aren't imitated by everyone.

-Walt
Ha! Yeah, I have two friends with the ti Paragon dropouts (from different builders), and they had a bit of trouble with them moving around and slipping until they experimented and found screws at the hardware store that worked better than the ones that came with it.

Those Paul dropouts are beauties and probably what I'd spec if having a custom steel frame made.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,844 Posts
I'm just about to finish a bike with horizontals and disk.

The customer is running this set-up currently with a bolt-on hub and has had no issues, even without tugs or screws. He requested the arrangement and wanted the caliper placed at 12:00 with no adjustment. You can worry about uneven pad wear at the extremes... or you can just ride.

I never liked the Paul's D/Os, honestly. They remind me of C'dale's '90s frankendropouts (just a little) and you have to undo the screws every time you remove the wheel. Too much hassle.

Paragon sliders are nice, but they're about $80 more than most horizontals.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,763 Posts
Paul DO's are junk. Simple. A bro of mine has a Steelman made with them. What a joke.

I tend to build with paragon sliders for XC type stuff. They do cost, but they are clean and they work very well.

It's also important to not discount the EBB. Most people that have had EBB problems are due to the builder not actually making the parts fit properly and reaming the shell post weld. It's almost a joke. They do weigh slightly more than sliders in the end, but the rear wheel is dead solid to the frame. I am going to be doing some 26" BMX frames this summer that will be using EBB. Cheap and solid when done right.

see: http://www.pvdwiki.com/index.php?title=Shimming_Eccentric_Bottom_Brackets
 

·
drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
Joined
·
3,910 Posts
pvd said:
Paul DO's are junk. Simple. A bro of mine has a Steelman made with them. What a joke.
Can you explain why they are a joke or junk? Or is it because it's a Steelman it is a junky joke? Or even because your bro has it that it's jokey junk? Enquiring minds want to know. :confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,763 Posts
I'm pretty sure that this is what I'm talking about: (from Steelman's site)



The complexity and difficulty using this system is near maximum. Using anything other that bolt on hubs (lame) results in a full dissassembly. Both of these options are completely unacceptable on the trail. By using either slider style or EBB. You can use a simple QR for fast and easy wheel changes without adjusting your brakes. You can also chose to use 10mm TA, a much more intellegent choice over bolt-on.

At first my buddy thought that the Paul DO's were super because Steelman said so, but in the year or so that he has been riding with them, he wishes that he had just gotten the paragon DOs.
 

·
drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
Joined
·
3,910 Posts
MMkay...after looking at that picture and reading your description, I agree. Thanks for taking the time.
 

·
HIYAH
Joined
·
754 Posts
pvd said:
I'm pretty sure that this is what I'm talking about: (from Steelman's site)



The complexity and difficulty using this system is near maximum. Using anything other that bolt on hubs (lame) results in a full dissassembly. Both of these options are completely unacceptable on the trail. By using either slider style or EBB. You can use a simple QR for fast and easy wheel changes without adjusting your brakes. You can also chose to use 10mm TA, a much more intellegent choice over bolt-on.

At first my buddy thought that the Paul DO's were super because Steelman said so, but in the year or so that he has been riding with them, he wishes that he had just gotten the paragon DOs.
Wow...that looks like a mess. Why the additional external sliding piece, when the upper portion of the dropout could have been slotted to work with the caliper????

On a side note, has anyone seen the blackcat tensioning system. More of a swinger than slider. Very cool. Looking for pictures now.
 

·
drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
Joined
·
3,910 Posts
On-One said:
Wow...that looks like a mess. Why the additional external sliding piece, when the upper portion of the dropout could have been slotted to work with the caliper????

On a side note, has anyone seen the blackcat tensioning system. More of a swinger than slider. Very cool. Looking for pictures now.
Black Cat

 
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
Top