[L8 APEKS]

I'm not sure what to attribute this to, but something about the geometry on my Catch 2 just doesn't feel right. I went from a 2011 Specialized Camber 26" which felt very balanced in pretty much any situation.

But the Catch has me feeling like my center of gravity is too far forward. Any time I'm standing up I feel like I'm gonna go over the bars, and my ass needs to be rubbing the rear tire any time I even *think* about applying the brake. It's particularly evident once fatigue sets in...if I'm even a little lazy about weight placement, I feel like the bike wants to hurt me. My torso feels "cramped" in the cockpit when seated as well.

I'm on a "Large" frame. I'm just shy of 6'1" with a 32" inseam and a regularly-proportioned torso and reach. On paper, I have the "right size bike."

My seat is all the way back on the rails, and I replaced the factory 50mm stem with a 70mm unit, try to get some comfort back when seated...one of the local trails has a very long fire road climb and it felt a bit "tippy" sitting so far upright.

I'm out of shape these days, but I *was* an expert NORBA racer back in the day (I know, I know...easy there, Al Bundy Polk High quarterback) and I've been on and off MTB's since the early 90's...so it's not a matter of "learn how to ride."

I've only got maybe 50-60 miles of trails in so far...but the feel of the bike has me disappointed. It's almost like if I'm not in a "full race squat" 100% of the time, the bike wants to send me forward. I've never had this feeling before. It sucks to spend $2k and be disappointed.

Maybe someone notices something in the geometry?

Here's the geometry of bike I was on before: https://geometrygeeks.bike/bike/specialized-camber-expert-2011/

Here is the geometry for the Catch 2:
https://www.jensonusa.com/Diamondback-Catch-2-Bike-2016

Thoughts? Opinions? I want to ask for advice, but I feel like there are only 2 real options...get used to it, or replace the frame.

 

[rynoman03]

It could be that you just need a xl frame. I went from a 2008 haro rigid ht to my 2016 catch 1. Personally I love the bike but I'm so it if shape I can't ride it as hard as I'd like to. My haro was a 29" small frame, and I got the cramped feeling too on longer rides. I'm 5'8" 30" inseam. I'm riding a medium frame presently.

People buy and sell bikes all the time. Maybe this one is just not for you. I personally have no issues getting my ass behind my seat.

Best of luck.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[ninjichor]

Longer CS = more weight on the front wheel.

If the designers can't make the CS any shorter, then they should push the front wheel further forward.

For 446mm CS to feel as good as 420mm CS with 1154 or 1175mm WB (you didn't state size of Camber), the Catch's front wheel should be kicked out to the point that the WB is 1275mm. No exaggeration.

Generally, you're expected to compensate for the bike by shifting your hips back, sort of holding a rearward slanted position. If you don't adapt from your centered position, the excessive bodyweight on the front will cause the bike to nose-dive on jumps and drops, and/or the front wheel will wedge/plant itself into crooks and eject you over the bar.

May I advise the NICA position (specifically developed for such geo):

While you're at it, you can practice timing this fine technique precisely before anything that threatens to cause your bike to nose-dive or wedge itself:

Because clearly the rider is the important part of the bike and if you can't do this, you are a whiny cry baby who can't conform to "attack/ready positions" that are endorsed by respected coaches. *satire of commonly coached wisdom*

Or you can just follow my wisdom and immediately disqualify bikes that do not have these CS to WB proportions in your size:

410 1130

415 1150

420 1170

425 1190

430 1210

435 1230

440 1250

445 1270

450 1290

455 1310

Normally I'd note to adjust for sag, but don't worry about it. I already ballparked it, and this is enough to cut out the masses of bikes that are merely good from your short-list, to ones that are dialed, and allow you to go back to enjoying dirt surfing with your hips, rather than wondering if you should by happy being defensively balled-up-into-a-tuck hiding behind your handlebar. Life's too short to ride attempt to fool yourself into settling down with **** bikes, especially when you know you better exists through just simple geometry, rather than through intensive technological/engineering manufacturing marvel.

With proper geo that allows you to stay centered, you can reserve the "NICA" or "full race squat" position for when you're railing that -50% grade:

P.S. I suggest to just get a Fezzari Wire Peak XL and live in the future.

 

[33red]

Maybe using a riser bar, 25 or 35 mm?
I guess your saddle is flat enough?
What have u tried sofar?
I have a few saddles and some bikes are better with a long one
others are a match for a short one.
Try positioning your hands more narrow.

 

[One Pivot]

Your bike is too small. If you have a 70mm stem on a modern bike, you're on a too small frame. If you're pushing the seat back on the rails, too small frame. You're doing both, its *definitely* too small.

I have no idea what ninjichor is on about, but that picture is hilarious. :lol:

 

[ninjichor]

*sarcasm* Careful One Pivot, it's taboo to make fun of coaching. You likely use these same techniques too. Coaches, especially ones certified by a recognized organization, are the authority on the subject matter of fitting people to the bikes. It's not the bike, it's the rider; Aaron Gwin can smoke you on a Huffy. Why waste money on bikes trying to find a good fit when you can give it to a coach to help fool you into thinking you can adapt to the bike. *sarcasm*

 

[tfinator]

I also don't know what ninjichor is talking about, but it sounds like the frame is too small.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[One Pivot]

ninjichor, The OP isnt talking about technique or coaching. It sounds like you have some issue with coaching, but thats not the case here.

Im 5'7 and my bike has a 450mm reach. Its perfect, I've never had a bike fit so well. The op is pushing 6'1 and his bike has a 449mm reach. Its really way too small.

He feels too far forward because hes too far forward. Kind of by a lot. The XL could use a little more length too for the OP's height.

 

[NZPeterG]

The bike is too small for you.

Time for a bigger frameset or bike.

Happy riding

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[Nubster]

I'm 6'2" with a 32" inseam and bought a L Release 3 upon their recommendation. Too small. I had the opposite problem though...always felt like I was going to fall off the back anytime I tried to get low on the bike. Returned it and ordered an XL. Problem fixed and love the bike.

 

[ninjichor]

I'm 5' 7" and my bike has a reach of 490mm. The bike is too big for me, right? So the opposite should happen, and I should be washing out in turns and the front should be popping up by itself, throwing me off the back, right?

Seriously, what's your point? Are you saying you can predict how my bike would ride based on just this?

I can expect people to not understand my post, since it's far from common sense, but I'm betting L8 APEX has a clue, based on his name. He probably know about vehicles with weight bias too far forward, or too far rearward, and how that correlates to handling issues such as oversteer/understeer. Similar thing with bikes, and I said in the very first line why it feels like there's excessive weight on the front.

 

[One Pivot]

Dude, you're on an even bigger bike than the OP, by a lot, and hes got six inches of height on you, and you wont admit that its very likely that his bike is too large? :lol:

I'm not even sure what point you're attempting to make, but it doesnt make any sense. The catch is a great bike, and has many many happy riders on it. As long as you get one that fits.

If you put a long stem on a bike that you're too big for, it feels like it has too much weight over the front because it does.

 

[Shinkers]

I'm 5' 7" and my bike has a reach of 490mm. The bike is too big for me, right? So the opposite should happen, and I should be washing out in turns and the front should be popping up by itself, throwing me off the back, right?

Seriously, what's your point? Are you saying you can predict how my bike would ride based on just this?

No, because you actually only need a chainstay length to determine how a bike will ride, right?

 

[ninjichor]

Dude, you're on an even bigger bike than the OP, by a lot, and hes got six inches of height on you, and you wont admit that its very likely that his bike is too large? :lol:

I'm not even sure what point you're attempting to make, but it doesnt make any sense. The catch is a great bike, and has many many happy riders on it. As long as you get one that fits.

If you put a long stem on a bike that you're too big for, it feels like it has too much weight over the front because it does.

Going from L to XL extends the seat tube by 2", and front center by 1" (and head tube by 10mm).

Surely that's enough to fix the problem of feeling like there's too much weight on the front. *sarcasm*

I suggested that it needs WAY more to fix the problem, to the tune of increasing the front center by 60mm over the XL.

No, because you actually only need a chainstay length to determine how a bike will ride, right?

CS length + WB is needed to determine weight balance between front and rear, for a rider standing out-of-the-saddle on the bike. These are the two most important #s from the geo table in determining handling (WB most important, by far), with BB drop being 3rd, and HTA a distant 4th. The others are mostly fit and comfort.

It's a sad industry where things are rated by travel and weight foremost, followed by material and "aggressiveness" (which includes wheel/tire size)...

-------

Think of the problem in terms of balance, for both the rider and the bike itself:

If you could replace the cranks/pedals with pegs, where would you place them to feel comfortable riding the Catch (if you could place them anywhere)? Or your own bike?

I wager that L8 APEX would probably feel like the bike would be much more enjoyable to ride if the location of the pegs were at least 1 inch behind the BB, at least for out-of-the-saddle riding. How the seated position feels is another issue, that only suggests that the Catch is a disappointment, needing to shift it back at least an inch as well. If you think you would describe your own bike's ride as "well balanced" if the pegs just slotted right in the BB shell, or slightly below, then your bike must be quite dialed.

 

[watermonkey]

I'm 5'10 and rode a Catch 2, Large. These bikes are too small and the reach isn't long enough. You at least need an XL. My son is 12, 5'4", and riding a large Release 3 with a 125 mm dropper and it fits him like it was made for him, and he also fits the same large Catch 2, both with 50 mm stems. Your bike is too small, and chainstay lengths have precisely dick to do with this conversation.

 

[ninjichor]

I'm 5'10 and rode a Catch 2, Large. These bikes are too small and the reach isn't long enough. You at least need an XL. My son is 12, 5'4", and riding a large Release 3 with a 125 mm dropper and it fits him like it was made for him, and he also fits the same large Catch 2, both with 50 mm stems. Your bike is too small, and chainstay lengths have precisely dick to do with this conversation.

What's your son say about riding both bikes back-to-back? Similar stuff to what was said in post #1?

 

[watermonkey]

All three of us have spent time on both bikes. Travel has been adjusted to 150 on the front of the Catch to match that of the Release - because the Catch in stock form is a stupid bike. There are some minor frame geometry differences between the two bikes now, but the biggest difference (besides running + on one, and 2.5's on the other) is the chainstay length. The Catch, with the longer stays, is the preferred by bike by all, now my wife's primary bike, and my son gets the Release. I've since moved on to a La Sal peak in + mode, mostly because the diamondback series runs too small and I was cramped on the Catch. The Catch works great for my wife, as she prefers a short cockpit, and my son went directly from a small Release to the large. 5 years of the same geometries on these frames is ridiculous, and they need an overahaul/modernization. They pedal really, really well - just need some more reach and a slightly steeper STA. Minor tweaks.

 

[boogietron9000]

Noob here. Im 5'8 and 230lbs with a 30in inseam. Do i go with the MD 427mm reach or LG 449mm for the catch 2?

 

[richj8990]

Dude, you're on an even bigger bike than the OP, by a lot, and hes got six inches of height on you, and you wont admit that its very likely that his bike is too large? :lol:

I'm not even sure what point you're attempting to make, but it doesnt make any sense. The catch is a great bike, and has many many happy riders on it. As long as you get one that fits.

If you put a long stem on a bike that you're too big for, it feels like it has too much weight over the front because it does.

Or...you can put on a headset handlebar riser to raise the handlebars a couple of inches, that helps a lot. Problem is that most of those extenders are pretty cheap unsealed bearing ones but so far mine has held up for 1000 miles.

Weanas Bike Stem Riser, MTB Handlebar Riser Extender Bicycle Alloy Head up Adapter for Mountain Bike, Road Bike, MTB, BMX (1-1/8" Riser) $11.99 Amazon

You can increase the handlebar height up to 3.5 inches. I admit it looks really weird having that long of a stem, like a motorcycle chopper, but it works. You can probably find a more decent one somewhere else for $30-40. Really helped my 26" with declines.

 

[33red]

Noob here. Im 5'8 and 230lbs with a 30in inseam. Do i go with the MD 427mm reach or LG 449mm for the catch 2?

Just my 2 cents, since this is your first post do not trust us. Here there is a lot of knowledge and you might get helped. But you will also read other stuff so if you do not know wich bike to buy it is not your bike. You should feel it when you sit on your bike and test it. Just buy some used bike and sell it in a month if it is not your bike. Repeat a few times you will learn what you like, frame, tires, wheels, transmission without loosing much. We have habits, ride in different places so even if your frame/body is similar to mine my bike might not be the one you enjoy. Some bikes are more nimble, others are more stable. With time you will be able to trust you.