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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi there; Is anyone riding a Nomad with a 600lb spring on their DHX 5.0 Coil? I traded for a second shock and it came with a 600lb spring. The spring seems super long to me, it measures, 600lb x 2.8; is that the right length for a DHX 5.0; the shock length is 8.5 x 2.5?

I have a Pushed DHX with a 550 x 2.8 sping, it has 7 coils. The 600lb sping has 9 coils, that seems long to me? Thanks in advance.
turtle
 

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Mine is a 500 x 2.8 spring. The 2.8 is the stroke length of the spring i think. It's a bit more than the 2.5" stroke of the shock to prevent coil bind. Yours should be okay i reckon.:)
 

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noMAD man
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As long as the spring fits between the retaining collar and preload collar without having to crank the preload collar down to get it to fit, the 2.8 spring is the right one for the 8.5 X 2.5 shock. The springs generally get bigger as the weight goes up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I don't know if you've swapped out a 600lb spring on the DHX 5.0 but the couple times I've done it, it was really hard:madman: ; you have to use two levers, one on each side of the spring to compress it enough to push the retainer in place. Each time I've tried to get the retainer back on, it's taken two or three big guys; we had to put the shock on the floor and then put our weight on the levers-we used Park steel tire levers to compress the spring; if you ask me, that's not the right size spring. So what options are there-is there a spring that's a little shorter that will fit?
 

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noMAD man
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Turtle, did you get that spring from Fox, or are you at least positive it's a Fox spring? I have a 550/2.8 Fox spring, and it's about 150mm long. I have Fox 2.8 springs ranging from 350 to 550, and they all seem to move up in length in about 5mm increments. So a 600lb version should be about 155mm to 160mm at most if logic is any indication. Does your spring have "Fox" printed in white on the black paint? I had two DHX coils and still have one Vanilla RC in the 8.5 X 2.5 size. They all have a good deal of preload collar threads, so I can't see a 160mm spring being hard to fit...but then I'm not in your shoes at the moment...LOL. Turtle, can you give us a length in mm's on that spring you have there?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
TNC said:
Turtle, did you get that spring from Fox, or are you at least positive it's a Fox spring? I have a 550/2.8 Fox spring, and it's about 150mm long. I have Fox 2.8 springs ranging from 350 to 550, and they all seem to move up in length in about 5mm increments. So a 600lb version should be about 155mm to 160mm at most if logic is any indication. Does your spring have "Fox" printed in white on the black paint? I had two DHX coils and still have one Vanilla RC in the 8.5 X 2.5 size. They all have a good deal of preload collar threads, so I can't see a 160mm spring being hard to fit...but then I'm not in your shoes at the moment...LOL. Turtle, can you give us a length in mm's on that spring you have there?
I wrote to Fox, they said the 600 x 2.8 spring is too long; I think we knew that because it takes at least two huge people with levers to compress the spring enough to get it off and on the shock. However, they did say there is a 600 x 2.55; I'm guessing that's about the same length as my 550lb x 2.8 shock-it fits nicely on my DHX 5.0. :madman: In addition, Fox said the 2.55 is hard to find.

Both my spings are Fox products; the 600 x 2.8 is about 158.75-159 mm and the 550 x 2.8 is 146.05 mm. I've got a couple turns of pre-load on the 600lb spring, it's on my bike.

What do you mean when you say you have a "good deal" of preload threads; does that mean 1/8th of an inch of threads; 1/4 of an inch or 1/2 inch of threads? My issue isn't the number of threads, my issue is the spring is so long that you have to use either a human form of a spring compressor or some sort of mechanical device.

I remember Zilla talking about changing out one of the spings on his DHX; his description of what it took to compress the little devil was not only hilarious, but it was truly amazing and it's dangerous. Try slipping with all of your weight and the weight of your friend together at the same time and you'll come up with a good routine for Larry, Moe and Curly:D first the heads smash together, then the knuckles crunch on the floor; no telling what the spring might do:eekster:

I have enough threads left on my shock with the 600lb sping to adjust the pre-load, but I can't take it off or put it on without going through a major ordeal. My only recourse at this point is to: 1) loose another 15lbs; 2). sell the DHX and buy a Rocco. hummmmm, let me think for 1/2 second; Rocco!!!. we need an icon for light bulb.

Not sure, but I'm willing to bet I wouldn't have the same problem with the Vanilla RC-I never heard of anyone having problems getting the spring off or back on with the VRC.

Ok, TNC, you know you want to trade the Pushed Vanilla for the DHX:D I'll write Darren and see if he has one laying around:rolleyes:

So what do you think? I think I hear information giving me Craig's number at Avalanche; hello Craig, how much will the Chubie cost?? Resistance is futile, how much longer can I hold out; forget it, give me the phone
 

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noMAD man
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Yeah, I was just reading a couple of other threads about getting 600lb. springs on the DHX, so you're definitely right. It's kinda pathetic that Fox has trouble getting their own 600lb. spring on their own shock. You think somebody in the design sections of each department weren't talking to one another?????? I mean, c'mon...it's a 600lb. spring...not an 800 or 1000 lb. spring. And to boot, you're talking about an 8.5" long shock...not a 6.5" XC shock. Sounds like a Murphy's Law outcome at Fox on that one.

Oh, on the threads comment, I had the concept that there was enough room to back the preload collar all the way up the body and get the 600 pounder on or off without the help of the Terminator. This pic shows three 8.5 X 2.5 shocks. The RC and DHX look identical as far as spring space is concerned. Looking at mine with a 550lb. spring on it (not in that pic), it just looked like there should be room. But from seeing everyone else's troubles, apparently it's a size 10 foot in a size 9 shoe.

On considering a DHX coil for my Nomad, I'm actually considering an 8.75 X 2.75 for more BB clearance...as you know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
What size springs are on the Vanilla and the DHX=the one's in the picture? I've got less than 1/4 inch of threads between the collar and the end of the shock; you would not want to crank the spring down much more; SC says one turn.

I'm pretty sure I'll give the Rocco or Avy a go; the price is right for the Rocco and I really like the idea of having a shock you can have modified to fit different bikes; you keep the Avy and have Craig modify it to fit other bikes; you can't do that with other shocks-that is unless I can find someone with a Pushed Vanilla who wants to trade:D

I wonder how hard it would be to find a 600lb x 2.55 coil sping; time to check out RCS.
 

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noMAD man
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That's a 400lb. Fox spring on the DHX and a 450lb. Fox spring on the RC. On a non-Fox spring, just remember that "rub" deal on some other springs that appear to be straight swaps for Fox springs. I think I saw a mention on the Turner forum about an RCS spring rubbing the piggyback on a DHX...one of those posts about a 600lb. spring on a DHX...but it may have been a Ti spring.

On that modified shock deal, the PUSH'd DHX also gets set up for the specific bike and rider...doesn't it?...and nothing to keep Darren from changing it later to another bike...if the length/stroke is appropriate? But an Avy is an awfully nice shock, so unless the price is outrageous, it would be great. I know you saw 'zilla's post on the Turner forum on his Turner/Avy combo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I wrote to Darren and asked if he could re-build my shock to fit other bikes, he said no; of course you could swap the shock to another bike if it used an 8.5.2.5. With Avalanche, Craig will modify the shock to fit any bike-that's a good deal for people who change bikes and want to keep their shock.

I saw Zilla's post; he seems pretty happy with the Avy. I've heard the Avy shocks are great for heavy rides-I may end up with one. But then again, I'd like to see if I can find a 600lb spring that measures 5.55". All Fox said was they're hard to find; maybe I'll write back and see if they can locate one; that's my 1st choice. But selling my shock for 300-would put me close enough to the Avy; but I doubt I'll get 300; we'll see.

I just looked at the Rocco RC , they're selling for 358 and the Rocco TST is around 328; one of them would be way more cost effective. My friend says he really likes his-I may have to check one out.
 

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Lord of the Chainrings
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600# is way too stiff. I'm 225 pounds and run an 450# RCS Ti spring.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Mudd said:
600# is way too stiff. I'm 225 pounds and run an 450# RCS Ti spring.
Glad to hear your Ti spring fits without hitting the bottom out adjuster; it will fit on my Pushed DHX for sure. I agree, the 600 x 2.8 is too long and too stiff. Come to find out, Fox makes a 600lb x 2.55" and a 700 x 2.55; it's still too long for the DHX but it works with one turn of pre-load. I'm running a 550lb spring on my Pushed DHX and it's just fine for dh trails; I need to try the 550 on the stock DHX. Sure glad I don't have UGI anymore; I took the cure and it really worked this time:D
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Never a dull moment; it turns out that (per Fox) 600 x 2.8 spring is too long for the DHX 5.0. However, they do make a 600 x 2.55" Unfortunately, the 600 x 2.55 steel spring is 6.1" long; not a big improvement from the 6 3/8" length of the 600 x 2.8. If that's not confusing enough, Renton Coil Springs makes a Ti spring that measures 5.8"; problem is, the Ti coil sometimes hits the bottom out (blue knob) adjuster.

At the end of the day-or should I say days of looking at and thinking about shocks/springs and other things, I decided use the 550lb x 2.8 sping; that's the same spring I have on my Pushed DHX 5.0. Regardless of the length of the 600lb spring, it's too stiff and doesn't let me get full travel. whew; what a pita; the good news is, I'm not looking for a different shock or ready to pop for a Ti spring.

What amazed me, was when Adam at Downhill Zone, popped my 600lb spring off the shock by himself; it took three of us to get it off and on the other two times; that's two other shop mechanics and me :thumbsup: .
 

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noMAD man
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Sometimes technique is more effective than muscle...LOL! Glad you straightened that mess out.

One warning...I'd suggest not challenging that Adam guy to an arm wrestling contest.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
FWIW, I rode with the 550lb spring yesterday and realized my fork was set up too stiff; I'll be lowering the pressure in the positive chambers today. In addition, I realized I need to drop a few more pounds if I want the shock to work well with a lower spring weight; taking off the 600lb spring was a good thing, now I've got to loose some more weight ;) Over all, I'm happy with the 550lb spring, the bike got better traction going up and it tacked better through corners going down.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I've been learning about bike set up for years, but at the end of the day, my efforts at tuning the suspension come up short on results. Sometimes the shop would set up the bike to work like a top, but most of the time I ended up tweaking the adjustments throughout the ride.

After we changed the spring on my rear shock, the mechanic said something that stuck in the back of my head; it was nothing I haven't heard before, but for some reason it finally made sense; he said soften up the fork to where you've got more sag-he said that would change the head angle enough to balance out the suspension.

All of a sudden the light bulb came on and I understood why I was having trouble with my balance on the bike. I dropped the pressure in the positive chambers, added click or two of compression and took the bike for a ride. Holy smoke, what a difference; the bike settled into the trail and carved it's way through the turns; way different from sliding off the side of the trail or falling over because I was high centered.

To be honest, I was afraid of riding my bike with a super-soft suspension, that's why I kept putting too much air in the 66sl and holding onto the 600lb spring on my DHX. But after yesterday's ride, I'm a believer; I rode better and climbed better than ever. But I will admit that I thought of TNC's comments about clipping pedals more than once on yesterday's ride; I could tell my bottom bracket was closer to the ground that usual.

But to tell you the truth, I don't think it's possible to ride higher in the travel and have more bottom bracket clearance without changing / compromising the balance of the suspension; personally, I'll take the balance and lower bottom bracket any day, yesterday was one of the best rides of my life.
 

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noMAD man
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Bingo! Turtle, I think many bike folk are prone to set up their suspensions too harsh. In fact IMO you should generally set up your suspension where you get bottomout and work backwards from there. What's the point of having a 6-7 inch travel bike that rides like a Specialized Epic XC race bike? Here's one issue to be aware of on a longer travel plush bike...when you go too slow in really rough terrain, the bike will bog at the most inopportune times. On the other hand, some think that a suspension needs to be setup very stiffly so that you can go fast in rough terrain. In reality it only needs to be stiff enough to keep from frequent bottomout. This allows maximum control and keeps the tires in contact with the terrain for best results. A well tuned plush suspension actually allows you to maintain more momentum in rough terrain once you realize you can carry more speed with a long travel plush bike.

Yeah, the low BB is a little annoying on the Nomad, and that's where I'm looking at the 8.75 shock for my bike. You'll get a little more BB height and maintain a plush rear end. I was riding my Nomad in very rocky, ledgy terrain yesterday, and maybe I'm getting used to the lower BB. Some of my annoyance comes from getting spoiled by high BB Bullits.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
TNC said:
Bingo! Turtle, I think many bike folk are prone to set up their suspensions too harsh. In fact IMO you should generally set up your suspension where you get bottomout and work backwards from there. What's the point of having a 6-7 inch travel bike that rides like a Specialized Epic XC race bike? Here's one issue to be aware of on a longer travel plush bike...when you go too slow in really rough terrain, the bike will bog at the most inopportune times. On the other hand, some think that a suspension needs to be setup very stiffly so that you can go fast in rough terrain. In reality it only needs to be stiff enough to keep from frequent bottomout. This allows maximum control and keeps the tires in contact with the terrain for best results. A well tuned plush suspension actually allows you to maintain more momentum in rough terrain once you realize you can carry more speed with a long travel plush bike.

Yeah, the low BB is a little annoying on the Nomad, and that's where I'm looking at the 8.75 shock for my bike. You'll get a little more BB height and maintain a plush rear end. I was riding my Nomad in very rocky, ledgy terrain yesterday, and maybe I'm getting used to the lower BB. Some of my annoyance comes from getting spoiled by high BB Bullits.
I totally agree with you on every point, including the "bog" that you say happens at inopportune times; in my case, usually at the crest of or steepest part of a short steep section. Oh well, it's easy to jump off and push. I'll be watching out for that review of the 8.75 x 2.5 shock on the Nomad. Happy New Year
 

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Lord of the Chainrings
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TNC said:
Bingo! Turtle, I think many bike folk are prone to set up their suspensions too harsh. In fact IMO you should generally set up your suspension where you get bottomout and work backwards from there. What's the point of having a 6-7 inch travel bike that rides like a Specialized Epic XC race bike? Here's one issue to be aware of on a longer travel plush bike...when you go too slow in really rough terrain, the bike will bog at the most inopportune times. On the other hand, some think that a suspension needs to be setup very stiffly so that you can go fast in rough terrain. In reality it only needs to be stiff enough to keep from frequent bottomout. This allows maximum control and keeps the tires in contact with the terrain for best results. A well tuned plush suspension actually allows you to maintain more momentum in rough terrain once you realize you can carry more speed with a long travel plush bike.

Yeah, the low BB is a little annoying on the Nomad, and that's where I'm looking at the 8.75 shock for my bike. You'll get a little more BB height and maintain a plush rear end. I was riding my Nomad in very rocky, ledgy terrain yesterday, and maybe I'm getting used to the lower BB. Some of my annoyance comes from getting spoiled by high BB Bullits.
I agree with the "spoiled by Bullit high BB statement" for sure! First thing I noticed when I went to a VP-Free was the "pedal smack" problem, not encountered by riding the Bullit.
 

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TNC said:
... In fact IMO you should generally set up your suspension where you get bottomout and work backwards from there.
Well I think this is probably one of the best advice I've ever read on MTBR, good start of 2007 TNC! You are soooo right about this. You definitely need to bottom a bit from time to time, if not, your setup too stifff and not using the the bikes advantages. Some people still don't get it, they buy an incredible trail/all mountain bike and try to set ip up like an Spec Epic or Giant NRS!!! If they could just get over the fact that a tiny bit of movement from the shock when you pedal uphill is nothing compared to the traction you get instead of spinning on every obstacle...

TNC said:
... maybe I'm getting used to the lower BB. Some of my annoyance comes from getting spoiled by high BB Bullits.
Don't forget that this is a bit personal TNC. For me it's the opposite as what you experience. My previous bike had about half to three quarters of an inch more height than my Nomad and I sure MUCH prefer the Nomad's lower BB height. First it is easier to put your feet down while sitting when needed and for some reason the bike feels kind of more stable. I think smacking the pedals is probably also a matter of getting used to it. I guess I've developped some kind of reflex where I kind of know when to do a quick backward/forward pedal stroke in order to pass the obstacle and then resume regular pedal stroke.

Cheers.
 
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