Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm putting together a freeride bike based around a 2008 UMF Freddy 1 frame, and I'm buying derailleurs now. I've heard some talk about reverse pull derailleurs or something, and I was wondering if anyone knew what particualr type of derailleur i needed, or if it was just based on preference.

(the derailleurs I'm looking at is a 2008 XT shadow RD, and a 2008 XT FD)
 

·
Old man on a bike
Joined
·
12,395 Posts
Front derailleurs all work the same direction. Shimano rear derailleurs have two options, either a high-normal (traditional style where the derailleur's resting position is in the highest gear, i.e. smallest cog) or low-normal (also called rapid-rise by Shimano, where the resting position is in the lowest gear, or largest cog). Matter of personal preference for the most part when it's an option.
 

·
GONE
Joined
·
26,836 Posts
yashayashayasha,

Bikinfoolferlife was talking about rear ders. High normal is the way most all manufacters design their ders. to function. Shimano's Low Normal works in reverse. It really doesn't matter but I think you will find parts for High Normal ders more easily. I use Low Normal shifting on my ride. I've used both and for me, Low Normal works a little better. Make sure that your shifters work the way your rear der. works!
 

·
Old man on a bike
Joined
·
12,395 Posts
ambassadorhawg said:
yashayashayasha,

Bikinfoolferlife was talking about rear ders. High normal is the way most all manufacters design their ders. to function. Shimano's Low Normal works in reverse. It really doesn't matter but I think you will find parts for High Normal ders more easily. I use Low Normal shifting on my ride. I've used both and for me, Low Normal works a little better. Make sure that your shifters work the way your rear der. works!
Yep, forgot "rear" in my description, fixed now, sorry about that, thanks for clarifying for me. I prefer high normal myself, a more natural form for the rear derailleur IMHO. Shimano rapid fire shifters work with either, believe the dual controls favor the use of the low normals, though, but no personal experience other than with the high normal derailleurs with rapid fires or thumb shifters.
 

·
Doctor
Joined
·
264 Posts
I got my first "Lo Normal" on my Epic, and it confused me for a few rides. Got used to it, and it works fine. I can't say it's any better than traditional "Hi Normal", except for one curious capability:

..riding along in a pretty tall gear, try to climb a new challenge, and fail-and-bail. Just snap the right shifter x times (goes to a bigger rear cog), lift the bike & spin the crank. Voila, you're in a lower gear. Just like the front derailer. Hop on and go!

Other than that, I've discovered no specific advantage.

I've heard rumors that the new line of Shimanos are forgoing the "Lo Normal" option. If so, I'm sorry I've become accustomed to it.

jeff
 

·
Old man on a bike
Joined
·
12,395 Posts
yashayashayasha said:
Thanks :D, but one last thing:
This may be a dumb question (that could go either way) but would the previously mentioned derailleurs be comaptible with sram X7 shifters?
No, for the SRAM X-series shifters you'll need a SRAM rear derailleur. The trick is there are SRAM shifters that work with Shimano rear derailleurs (the Attack series) but the Shimano shifters do not work with SRAM rear derailleurs. Fronts all work with each other.
 

·
Old man on a bike
Joined
·
12,395 Posts
noodletips said:
I got my first "Lo Normal" on my Epic, and it confused me for a few rides. Got used to it, and it works fine. I can't say it's any better than traditional "Hi Normal", except for one curious capability:

..riding along in a pretty tall gear, try to climb a new challenge, and fail-and-bail. Just snap the right shifter x times (goes to a bigger rear cog), lift the bike & spin the crank. Voila, you're in a lower gear. Just like the front derailer. Hop on and go!

Other than that, I've discovered no specific advantage.

I've heard rumors that the new line of Shimanos are forgoing the "Lo Normal" option. If so, I'm sorry I've become accustomed to it.

jeff
Curious by what you mean you have to lift the bike? I've not done the low normal shifting out on a trail, really don't want to retrain this old dog or re-equip 5 bikes to make them all match, but I'm rarely surprised enough that I can't shift in time (and doubt in those situations the low normal would fare that much better).

I've seen ads that indicate the opposite, that the Shadow lineup is back to high normal, but I see ads for both types of spring in any case. Not sure what's coming down the pipe but I think Shimano will probably offer both; at one point they were leaning towards the low normal but got so much flack for excluding those that preferred high normal they started offering both again....
 

·
Doctor
Joined
·
264 Posts
Bikinfoolferlife said:
Curious by what you mean you have to lift the bike? I've not done the low normal shifting out on a trail, really don't want to retrain this old dog or re-equip 5 bikes to make them all match, but I'm rarely surprised enough that I can't shift in time (and doubt in those situations the low normal would fare that much better).
..if you find yourself having stopped abruptly, and in a too-tall gear. Not a likely scenario. Most often w/a beginner, someone riding a new bike, or on an unknown trail. I can't recall ever doing this on my '04 Epic...

Can you tell me why did Shimano create "Rapid Rise" anyway?

Aside from the above-mentioned case, I can think of only one thing: To get a harder/faster gear, the same action is taken with either shifter. The opposite action yields an easier/slower gear, with either shifter. For a beginner cyclist, this might be less confusing.

..or perhaps it was just to sell some more stuff.

jeff
 

·
ups and downs
Joined
·
15,600 Posts
Rapid-Rise was created because it sped up downshifts, the spring pulls the cage to the bigger cassette cogs. In muddy conditions that often could make a difference for racers.

Then they developed DC shifters to take advantage of the derailleurs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,602 Posts
If you are riding faster, flowing trails both high & low perform the same. I have about 10 years experience on each system & for the terrain I ride in, the low normal system is a big advantage.I ride in wet muddy conditions with lots of wet roots & off cambers,steep downhills with a tight corner at the bottom right into a steep up hill. In this situation with low normal you can dump several shifts with out pedaling [ downshifting/large cog on the back ] on the way down a hill, as soon as you start pedaling for the up hill in front of you it shifts insantly. With high normal you would need alot more ground to get to the same low gear. Also if you mistakenly find yourself with the drivetrain loaded up in to high of a gear, you will break less teeth off your front rings with low normal because it downshifts faster.
 

·
Doctor
Joined
·
264 Posts
rockyuphill said:
Rapid-Rise was created because it sped up downshifts, the spring pulls the cage to the bigger cassette cogs. In muddy conditions that often could make a difference for racers.
That sounds like Shimano promotional material. :D

Well, we have a choice now, thanks to Rapid Rise..

jeff
 

·
Doctor
Joined
·
264 Posts
xc71 said:
If you are riding faster, flowing trails both high & low perform the same. I have about 10 years experience on each system & for the terrain I ride in, the low normal system is a big advantage.I ride in wet muddy conditions with lots of wet roots & off cambers,steep downhills with a tight corner at the bottom right into a steep up hill. In this situation with low normal you can dump several shifts with out pedaling [ downshifting/large cog on the back ] on the way down a hill, as soon as you start pedaling for the up hill in front of you it shifts insantly. With high normal you would need alot more ground to get to the same low gear. Also if you mistakenly find yourself with the drivetrain loaded up in to high of a gear, you will break less teeth off your front rings with low normal because it downshifts faster.
Thanks for that input. I can see how that could show the advantage of lo-norm...

jeff
 

·
Doctor
Joined
·
264 Posts
Bikinfoolferlife said:
I've seen ads that indicate the opposite, that the Shadow lineup is back to high normal, but I see ads for both types of spring in any case. Not sure what's coming down the pipe but I think Shimano will probably offer both; at one point they were leaning towards the low normal but got so much flack for excluding those that preferred high normal they started offering both again....
I've been surfing, and can find no XTR Shadow RD's other than Hi-normal. No "Rapid Rise".

This being the new lineup, lack of RR may be an indication of it's impending demise.

jeff
 

·
ups and downs
Joined
·
15,600 Posts
The Shadow version of the XT and XTR RD's have a noticeably higher actuation effort than the standard derailleurs as they have stronger return springs, so they won't be widely accepted by the racers.

Until they ditch the Dual Controls, they won't ditch the low normal RD's as the DC are not great with high normal rear derailleurs, it takes a lot more effort to upshift by pushing up with the tops of your fingers, and then more effort yet with the Shadow RD.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,602 Posts
Shimano doesn't make a XTR Shadow in low normal - yet. I don't think Shimano is going to get ride of low normal shifting. Call me crazy, but when my Ibis Mojo SL showed up I had my LBS switch the XTR Shadow for a XTR low normal. Thats how much I prefer the low normal shifting for the terrain I ride.:thumbsup:
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top