[Headoc]

Cool, thanks for that. Any other comparo to the Rallon... climbing, cornering, suspension action?

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Well, first off the Rallon is a really good bike, and I loved how easy it was to accelerate and throw around. I had two problems with it. 1. In my hands it had a tendency to wash out the front tire in sharp corners at speed and 2. Could never get the back end to feel right. It was either too soft and affected the climbing or it was too harsh on small bumps. After about a year I switched it up to a SB 130 cause of the switch affinity hype which I regretted. Climbed a bit better then the Rallon but was worse everywhere else (I thought a lot worse, others a little YMMV). Got rid of that bike after a year and went with a 2020 Enduro. Absolutely loved the Enduro especially up in the mountains with extended downhills but its a lot of bike to push around in the flatter areas that I ride more often. So basically been looking for bike that climbs like the SB 130, descends like the Enduro, corners like the Enduro, but has that big trail bike feel of the Rallon and also is light and easy as a daily driver.

Enter the EVO. So essentially the EVO gives very little up to the Enduro at mortal speeds. I can definitely see the benefits to the Enduro but I'm never gonna get there. If I lived in BC or somewhere similar I would go with the Enduro for big climbs and big descents but the EVO is the better all round bike for me. I think the EVO climbs a bit better then the Rallon and on par with the SB130. Compared to the Rallon, its definitely more stable in the corners and I can push a lot harder without washing the front tire. I think this has to do with the extra reach and longer chain stays which make it easier to stay centered on the bike and also adds a level of forgiveness if you get off-center. I also like the EVO better then the Rallon for the descent. Granted I think this is partially to the kinematic but partially to the improved DPX2 which is quite noticeable. Also the longer reach and longer CS play a role here along with the lower top tube so you can move around on the bike a little bit better. The wheel path that got big attention with the Enduro and was copied for the EVO is the real deal and the bike just picks up speed. For context I used single piston brakes on my Rallon and was fine. Using Hayes Dominion A4's on EVO and could not live without them.

Finally the EVO gets off the ground really well. I've been popping off a bunch of stuff that I was plowing over with the Enduro. Similar to the Rallon. Really been a f$%kload of fun past couple of rides. The bike also accelerates as well as if not better then the Rallon and I've been really happy about that. Pr'd a couple of local loops cause I was quicker in the flats. Small bump compliance in the rear is really amazing considering how well the bike descends.

So I don't think you are giving up anything going to the EVO. Despite the fact that they are two different companies I would go so far as to say that the EVO is actually a pretty sweet evolution of the Rallon. I always thought the Rallon felt more like a trail bike then a big enduro sled and I loved how well rounded it was. Similar to the EVO.

I've been running the bike in the neutral head angle/high setting. 6'2 200lbs geared. 28% sag in rear with no low speed compression and which ever spacer comes with the bike. Mezzer pro up front although thinking about switching to new FOX 36. Running standard pressures for 200lbs in IRT/Main. Rebound fully open. One click HSC from fully open, 2 Clicks LSC from fully open.

 

[GlazedHam]

I only briefly put the shock in to the descent mode. It really has no support like that and it's not something I had use for because on the rare uplift day like yesterday at Cat mountain I still have to pedal plenty.

I should have clarified that my recommendations were in the middle 'trail' position.

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Makes sense, I've been running shocks and forks WITHOUT three position switches for the last few years so I had not considered the possibility of setting up the Air Spring in the "trail" position. I need a good description of what exactly that switch is doing, but it seems like it is firming up the HSC and the LSC.

Thanks for you input/feedback.

 

[GlazedHam]

Great thread. Lots of knowledgeable people in here. Hoping to get some advice as I am not nearly as bike savvy.

1)Trying to decide between S3 and S4. I am 5'9" with 30 inseam. I am coming off a really old bike, a 2013 Specialized Enduro with 425mm reach. Sounds like a lot of people are sizing up. Was thinking going S3 since it will already feel bigger than my current bike and worried S4 would be too big of a jump from what I am use to. This will be my one and only do everything bike.

2) I know these bikes are hard to come by right now, but is it worth trying to find an Expert model over a Comp model? As far as the Comp model goes, what would you recommend as the best parts to upgrade? Not trying to go crazy and break the bank. Just want a solid bike as I do ride a lot.

Appreciate any advice!

Just a data point ...I'm 5'10'' and typically ride a Medium. Had the last generation SJ EVO in S2, just sold an S3 Enduro and now have an 2021 SJ Evo S3. I went S3 vs S4 because I wanted something that was more flickable, nimble, agile.

 

[WHALENARD]

Well, first off the Rallon is a really good bike, and I loved how easy it was to accelerate and throw around. I had two problems with it. 1. In my hands it had a tendency to wash out the front tire in sharp corners at speed and 2. Could never get the back end to feel right. It was either too soft and affected the climbing or it was too harsh on small bumps. After about a year I switched it up to a SB 130 cause of the switch affinity hype which I regretted. Climbed a bit better then the Rallon but was worse everywhere else (I thought a lot worse, others a little YMMV). Got rid of that bike after a year and went with a 2020 Enduro. Absolutely loved the Enduro especially up in the mountains with extended downhills but its a lot of bike to push around in the flatter areas that I ride more often. So basically been looking for bike that climbs like the SB 130, descends like the Enduro, corners like the Enduro, but has that big trail bike feel of the Rallon and also is light and easy as a daily driver.

Enter the EVO. So essentially the EVO gives very little up to the Enduro at mortal speeds. I can definitely see the benefits to the Enduro but I'm never gonna get there. If I lived in BC or somewhere similar I would go with the Enduro for big climbs and big descents but the EVO is the better all round bike for me. I think the EVO climbs a bit better then the Rallon and on par with the SB130. Compared to the Rallon, its definitely more stable in the corners and I can push a lot harder without washing the front tire. I think this has to do with the extra reach and longer chain stays which make it easier to stay centered on the bike and also adds a level of forgiveness if you get off-center. I also like the EVO better then the Rallon for the descent. Granted I think this is partially to the kinematic but partially to the improved DPX2 which is quite noticeable. Also the longer reach and longer CS play a role here along with the lower top tube so you can move around on the bike a little bit better. The wheel path that got big attention with the Enduro and was copied for the EVO is the real deal and the bike just picks up speed. For context I used single piston brakes on my Rallon and was fine. Using Hayes Dominion A4's on EVO and could not live without them.

Finally the EVO gets off the ground really well. I've been popping off a bunch of stuff that I was plowing over with the Enduro. Similar to the Rallon. Really been a f$%kload of fun past couple of rides. The bike also accelerates as well as if not better then the Rallon and I've been really happy about that. Pr'd a couple of local loops cause I was quicker in the flats. Small bump compliance in the rear is really amazing considering how well the bike descends.

So I don't think you are giving up anything going to the EVO. Despite the fact that they are two different companies I would go so far as to say that the EVO is actually a pretty sweet evolution of the Rallon. I always thought the Rallon felt more like a trail bike then a big enduro sled and I loved how well rounded it was. Similar to the EVO.

I've been running the bike in the neutral head angle/high setting. 6'2 200lbs geared. 28% sag in rear with no low speed compression and which ever spacer comes with the bike. Mezzer pro up front although thinking about switching to new FOX 36. Running standard pressures for 200lbs in IRT/Main. Rebound fully open. One click HSC from fully open, 2 Clicks LSC from fully open.

Very helpful, thanks!

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[Streetdoctor]

Is anyone running a 36t chainring on their new EVO? Mulletlink is finally being delivered today supposedly and I’m going to build a wheel for it on Thursday

 

[Suns_PSD]

Mezzer pro up front although thinking about switching to new FOX 36. Running standard pressures for 200lbs in IRT/Main. Rebound fully open. One click HSC from fully open, 2 Clicks LSC from fully open.

That was a great comparison, thanks for that.

Not to turn this thread in to a Mezzer thread, but a couple of set up notes worth mentioning here but you can get more info in the Mezzer specific thread in the Suspension forum.

In the Mezzer thread someone created a great interactive worksheet where you type in your weight and spits out recommended IRT & main pressure recommendations. I found it to be a darn close starting point. What's noteworthy is that the needed air pressure is considerably less than what Manitou recommends. When you are done setting it up you should have 20-22% front fork sag in the standing attack position. If you don't, you need to readjust your main pressure until you do get the correct fork sag. And as a starting point remember Main = .66 * IRT. So what I mean by this is that if you have 75psi in your IRT you should have 50psi in your main and this should give you 20-22% standing sag. There are a few tricks to setting up the Mezzer including: 1) you can only correctly adjust IRT when the main chamber is totally empty, & 2) when filling the main lower chamber make certain your pump is screwed ALL of the way on and there is no weight on the fork at all. This is the only way the negative chamber fills/ empties correctly.

Then set all adjustments to the middle of the recommended Enduro settings. It sounds like you started with the recommended air pressure which is way too much and then tried to compensate for the overly sprung front by backing off your damping. This will result in poor suspension performance. A Pogo stick combined with the chassis attitude and bike geo not being as intended.

Remember that sag, and therefore spring-rate (air or coil) is basically a constant and that you should adjust damping around the spring-rate, not vise-versa.

Right now you probably have 15% fork sag or so, once you reset the fork you will have less sag on your shock at the current settings and will likely need to readjust downwards.

Good luck.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Is anyone running a 36t chainring on their new EVO? Mulletlink is finally being delivered today supposedly and I’m going to build a wheel for it on Thursday

Very eager to hear how you like the Mullet configuration but also your time comparisons.

Are you going to run a beefier rear tire to try and compensate for a bit less fore-aft contact patch?

 

[Suns_PSD]

Makes sense, I've been running shocks and forks WITHOUT three position switches for the last few years so I had not considered the possibility of setting up the Air Spring in the "trail" position. I need a good description of what exactly that switch is doing, but it seems like it is firming up the HSC and the LSC.

Thanks for you input/feedback.

I'm not exactly certain what the switch changes internally. It's very noticeable however.

In the descend position it's a squishy mess. I could see it being really good at rough natural downhill only terrain but I wouldn't want to hit large jumps like that. Not because of bottoming resistance but because I'd probably rebound over the bars. Pedaling in that position is pretty bad.

Where I ride, it's undulating. Even our (short) descents require pedal strokes everywhere, so I set the shock up in the trail position and was very happy with the overall performance when I removed it. If you aren't pedaling here pretty much everywhere, you just aren't going to go as fast.

I also tested the clockwise climb position at the Hill of Life. This is an absolutely atrocious long ledge filled climb in Austin and honestly the switch really did what it was supposed to do. If the air shock goes back on I will engage this switch for the few really long climbs as well as bike trips to Bentonville & CO with long boring climbs. It really worked well even though I don't feel like the Evo 'needs' it.

 

[Streetdoctor]

Very eager to hear how you like the Mullet configuration but also your time comparisons.

Are you going to run a beefier rear tire to try and compensate for a bit less fore-aft contact patch?

Nah, same 2.4 DHRII or 2.5 Aggressor I always run depending on conditions. I have a feeling it will be set up as a mullet the majority of the time swapping to the 29 rear at certain races. The mullet is just more fun to ride IME.

I’ll up my chainring to a 36 if it fits, moreso because I feel like I could run a 36 anyways with the 52 rear. With a 32 oval the 52 is basically useless.

I also might try swapping suspension with my Levo (Super deluxe and Zeb) just for fun and because the firmness of the 38 might be better with the weight of the E-bike. I’ll be swapping the EXT out with an air shock also based on conditions.

 

[dusted]

I only briefly put the shock in to the descent mode. It really has no support like that and it's not something I had use for because on the rare uplift day like yesterday at Cat mountain I still have to pedal plenty.

I should have clarified that my recommendations were in the middle 'trail' position.

Air pressure is not to be used to prevent bottom outs. Sag is not the wildly adjustable parameter used to dial in bottom outs that many make it out to be here and in other similar threads. The bike is supposed to have 20-22% standing sag up front & 29-32% sitting sag in the rear. This results in correct bike geometry and support. It's almost a non- adjustable parameter and certainly has a narrow window where it's correct and the bike handles as intended.

Spring rate has little effect on bottoming resistance although it does support the weight and sink down less. Compression damping is what slows the suspension movement down and prevents bottom outs. With high spring pressure and low damping, might as well be riding a pogo stick. True story, when I was a kid as a joke a friend turned out my rebound damping on my CR125 shock and I proceeded to endo myself into the ground on the very first jump, a large jump I had been doing all day.

You need more damping and more volume spacers and of course correct sag. I ran lsc at 6 from closed and rebound at 5 from closed. I'll never understand the common mtb suspension setting of 'all clickers wide open'. Do these riders think the suspension engineers are all idiots?

And it seems some coil shock guys are going the other way, running not nearly enough spring and relying on the damping to support the bike in a weird low position that rakes it way out, not at all how the bike manufacturer intended, but surely makes it feel more stable when pointed straight down. Too bad it's not a DH bike.

I just requested a 575# spring for my own EXT and I weigh 181#s give or take and am not carrying a pack currently as it's cool out so probably 185# riding weight and even my bike is 4#s lighter than some others. On my 550# spring the bike gives up it's travel just a bit too easily but it's close. It sits sort of down in the stiff damping when under any load and gives up it's compliance. Sure I could keep adding in preload, but preload doesn't equal spring rate. Better to have a light touch on the preload. Adding extra lsc damping to try and hold it up makes it pack, chatter & hang up. Backing off rebound makes it just hop.

Hoping the 575# spring with very little preload works well for me. It'll certainly be the ticket when I add a hydration pack.


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I changed out my #600 to a #575. It’s pretty much spot on for me. The storia came off my ripmo, so not sure if the tune is ideal for the evo. Had a chance to do 17 miles with 2100 ft of climbing, so it was my first real ride. Lots of chunk and high speed flow mixed in, was hitting the pedals more than normal. Dialed in a click of low speed,and now feels great. I’m #200,mabe my shock is tuned different. #600 was way to stiff, even with everything wide open. Surprisingly this bike and shock combo gives up nothing on the ripmo. Feels way better pedaling through rocks,doesn’t get hung up. Also turns better on downhill switchbacks. Ripmo shipmo, this bike rocks

 

[Suns_PSD]

Nah, same 2.4 DHRII or 2.5 Aggressor I always run depending on conditions. I have a feeling it will be set up as a mullet the majority of the time swapping to the 29 rear at certain races. The mullet is just more fun to ride IME.

I’ll up my chainring to a 36 if it fits, moreso because I feel like I could run a 36 anyways with the 52 rear. With a 32 oval the 52 is basically useless.

I also might try swapping suspension with my Levo (Super deluxe and Zeb) just for fun and because the firmness of the 38 might be better with the weight of the E-bike. I’ll be swapping the EXT out with an air shock also based on conditions.

Those tires are good. For example on a 29er I preferred the 2.3 Aggressor but on a 27.5 I preferred the 2.5. They felt closer to the same like that to me.

Yah, I have a 30T up front (for the increased AS) and 48 in the rear and the 48 is useless. I'm very close to going back to an 11 speed cassette.

What conditions would you consider the DPX2 a better fit for? I'm still struggling with my EXT but hoping I can access the amazing performance people rave about. It's not bad, it's just pretty much equal to the air at this point and I expected more.

 

[Suns_PSD]

I changed out my #600 to a #575. It’s pretty much spot on for me. The storia came off my ripmo, so not sure if the tune is ideal for the evo. Had a chance to do 17 miles with 2100 ft of climbing, so it was my first real ride. Lots of chunk and high speed flow mixed in, was hitting the pedals more than normal. Dialed in a click of low speed,and now feels great. I’m #200,mabe my shock is tuned different. #600 was way to stiff, even with everything wide open. Surprisingly this bike and shock combo gives up nothing on the ripmo. Feels way better pedaling through rocks,doesn’t get hung up. Also turns better on downhill switchbacks. Ripmo shipmo, this bike rocks

200#s geared up with pack and anything else? Pedal strikes are an issue for me as well but I'm working on that.

Just a guess, but with all the AS build in to DW Link I bet the valving is light for a Ripmo and firmer for a HL suspension, but that's just a random guess.

That's pretty cool that you are liking the Evo better than the Ripmo. I have yet to ever like an Ibis. I always feel perched up high and weird on them and never 'in' the bike and haven't enjoyed the suspension action in my limited experience.

 

[dusted]

200#s geared up with pack and anything else? Pedal strikes are an issue for me as well but I'm working on that.

Just a guess, but with all the AS build in to DW Link I bet the valving is light for a Ripmo and firmer for a HL suspension, but that's just a random guess.

That's pretty cool that you are liking the Evo better than the Ripmo. I have yet to ever like an Ibis. I always feel perched up high and weird on them and never 'in' the bike and haven't enjoyed the suspension action in my limited experience.

more like 210 or so rtr, all I needed was one click of low speed. Tried 2, but it felt a little firm. These shocks are pretty touchy. As for the tune on the ripmo, it might be the opposite. The ripmo blows through its travel very easily. It has a regressive curve. I used to run the storia with the pedal platform on sometimes when climbing or flatter Xc stuff. Not like it really needed it, but sometime it felt a little soft on compression or when standing while pedaling. Whatever the tune is, it feels better on the evo.

 

[DammitMike]

Great thread. Lots of knowledgeable people in here. Hoping to get some advice as I am not nearly as bike savvy.

1)Trying to decide between S3 and S4. I am 5'9" with 30 inseam. I am coming off a really old bike, a 2013 Specialized Enduro with 425mm reach. Sounds like a lot of people are sizing up. Was thinking going S3 since it will already feel bigger than my current bike and worried S4 would be too big of a jump from what I am use to. This will be my one and only do everything bike.

2) I know these bikes are hard to come by right now, but is it worth trying to find an Expert model over a Comp model? As far as the Comp model goes, what would you recommend as the best parts to upgrade? Not trying to go crazy and break the bank. Just want a solid bike as I do ride a lot.

Appreciate any advice!

I'm 5'7" and am very happy with the S3 size. I came off of a medium 2016 Stumpjumper and was a bit worried about the 67mm longer wheelbase on the new S3 Evo, but the bike feels great. It feels much more nimble than the numbers suggest. My buddy also bought an S3 at 5'9" and has been very happy with the fit, although he could probably run a longer dropper post if he wanted.

Regarding the Comp vs Expert. Both are great deals, but I think the biggest things to weigh are your preference of Shimano vs SRAM drivetrain/brakes and how much adjustability you will use on the suspension. I came off of a bike with a SRAM GX drivetrain and now have SLX on my Evo Comp, while I didn't have many complaints about the GX drivetrain, I've been very impressed with the SLX setup and have no plans to change components any time soon. My old bike had Fox suspension with 3-position CTD levers and that was enough adjustment for me, so the Fox Rhythm suspension on the Comp has been working great. If you previously had high speed/low speed compression and rebound adjustments on your Enduro or think you'd like to have the ability to fine tune those adjustments, you'll probably want to go with an Expert to get the Performance Elite level suspension.

 

[Grimpeeper]

Hey guys probably a dumb question, but making this my first build. Is this gap with the provided fsa headset head tube cap normal or should it be flush (ish) with the frame? I put everything in the correct order according to the manual.

 

[Streetdoctor]

I changed out my #600 to a #575. It’s pretty much spot on for me. The storia came off my ripmo, so not sure if the tune is ideal for the evo. Had a chance to do 17 miles with 2100 ft of climbing, so it was my first real ride. Lots of chunk and high speed flow mixed in, was hitting the pedals more than normal. Dialed in a click of low speed,and now feels great. I’m #200,mabe my shock is tuned different. #600 was way to stiff, even with everything wide open. Surprisingly this bike and shock combo gives up nothing on the ripmo. Feels way better pedaling through rocks,doesn’t get hung up. Also turns better on downhill switchbacks. Ripmo shipmo, this bike rocks

I think you’re spot on. I sent back my 600 as well, going to try a 550 and 525 and estimate what I’ll need when I drop another 20 pounds. At 204 the 575 is perfect. As far as pedal strikes I think you’ll get used to it. I just raced Bootleg Canyon and rode 20 miles in Sedona on the way home with 175’s and didn’t have issues. I rode all the H trails.

 

[Streetdoctor]

Those tires are good. For example on a 29er I preferred the 2.3 Aggressor but on a 27.5 I preferred the 2.5. They felt closer to the same like that to me.

Yah, I have a 30T up front (for the increased AS) and 48 in the rear and the 48 is useless. I'm very close to going back to an 11 speed cassette.

What conditions would you consider the DPX2 a better fit for? I'm still struggling with my EXT but hoping I can access the amazing performance people rave about. It's not bad, it's just pretty much equal to the air at this point and I expected more.

air suspension for more XC races like bootleg where I would race in the middle setting, and just to have a backup shock. The EXT feels better in every aspect but for example this bootleg race was a XC pedalfest. 30 minutes over 3 stages with only 300-400’ish of elevation loss.

 

[WHALENARD]

If anyone is looking to sell a new or low milage DPX2 with the LSC (expert & up?) with the S5 tune I would be interested, thanks.

 

[Fassn8]

Hey guys probably a dumb question, but making this my first build. Is this gap with the provided fsa headset head tube cap normal or should it be flush (ish) with the frame? I put everything in the correct order according to the manual.
View attachment 1912343

I think that’s normal

 

[-C-]

I'm 85kg (187lbs) and running a 575lb spring on my Storia, which gets me in the ballpark sag wise. I could probably get down to 80kg by the summer and run a 550 on it, but so far is feels really good.

Caveat to say, I don't have any funky valving to improve pedalling when open (as it pedals fine IME). Only a handful of rides so far, but I would say it's a significant improvement over the DPX2. The bike is still lively & wants to boost of stuff, yet it also seems happy to hunker down on rough stuff, rather than skip over the top as previously.

One other thing I have noticed also is it is now, by far the quietest bike I have ever ridden. Eerily quiet in fact.

Played with settings again - have now switched to short stays & slack HS cup. Real world has resulted in a sub 63 degree HA & BB is still lower than official measurements so will get out on Friday & give her a rip to see how it goes