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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Maybe I've already missed a post on this, but has anyone else read the new Dewhine, er Decline in which pretty much everyone *****es about NORBA and everything else, and then they vow not to cover Nationals next year?
Believe me, I understand the complaints about lack of prize money, crappy gated courses and..well I can't really come up with anything else..maybe some scheduling problems here and there. The complaining about feeling like an event afterthought is equal to "Marsha! Marsha! Marsha!" on the Brady Bunch. I just finshed an awesome season of racing DH, but beyond fun events, great people, great races and courses I found that DHers are focking incredible complainers. We're supposed to be the toughguys on mountain bikes, but after reading Decline's editorials, Lopes' column and that other whiny jibber kid's drivel I start to question things. Yeah Lopes, the gated courses suck...maybe you should try racing DH again ya pansy...you seemed to do well at Whistler. And Cam...you think acting like "Jackass" 4 years after that shiz was played on MTV should have sponsors chomping at the bit to give you $$? The reason Schley and the rest of the guys you bag on are making money is because they are great at marketing themselves and their sponsors. That column you had a few months ago about how hard it will be to stay "good" and sponsored and progressive for years when you are blowing your joints out once a year was humble and insightful....I think you've been hangin with the 26" Donkeys too much these days. Being a jackass just isn't that cool anymore. Citation: Viva la Bam. God that **** sucks.
But I digress....My main issue is with Decline: Does deciding not to cover these races help solve anything? The biggest problem is the lack of big time sponsor money. How will shrinking coverage in the only mag with the means and readership to adequately cover gravity racing help gravity racing? How will sponsors feel about supporting their regional racers at Nationals when they know that they won't have any chance of a sick Spomer pan shot or even a mention on a results list? How will this help draw big time sponsors that can help "heal" NORBA racing? These are my biggest questions and I want answers because the tripe in the magazine was not sufficient. HOW WILL NOT COVERING A MAJOR RACE SERIES HELP THAT RACE SERIES IMPROVE? Will they recognize the error of their ways and do eveything they can to attract Scott Hart back to the scene, maybe with nice letter and some FTD flowers? I think not. I think instead that with declining (no pun intended) coverage from people who get their paychecks to care about gravity assisted riding, NORBA will react in-line and devote even fewer resources towards gravity. (Except for Super D..that shiz is gonna blow up next year..mark my words...we might get embarrassed by tough XC guys on 5" bikes). Thats going to hurt the amateurs and growing number of semi pro and pro privateers who are trying to race as much as possible and get good results to make their sponsors happy. Maybe Decline's Socal Pro-dawg clique won't race Nationals, but I have to assume that a couple hundred pros and am will.
I would advocate the opposite. I think Decline should intensify their National race coverage. They should work with NORBA to have someone who knows and cares about gravity racing write copy for their press releases. They should publish results for Experts beyond Jr.s, hell, show top five for sport and beginnner. They aren't doing amateur racers any favors by shunning NORBA. By focusing on Pro dominated events like the US Open and Crankworks (<--with the rest of the bike mag publishing industry..how cutting edge!) they are alienating the roots of the sport. Dedicated midpack Sport and Expert racers focking rule..they are the lifeblood of this sport and deserve some consideration.
I am lucky enough to live in Colorado and I have the most excellent Mountain States Cup Series to race again next summer. I can't wait. I will be psyched to see increased coverage of such a great series of events and give mucho props to Cycle Cyndicate for the vast majority of the coordination of the events. Yet at the same time I think it is dumb and self-destructive to sever ties with NORBA in such a brutal manner, but its not all that suprising considering the bridges burned during the creation of Decline in the first place.
-Rant off.

I know this is a bit heavier than "My new 11.5 foot drop!" but I'd be psyched to hear some thoughts from racers who hit regional and National stuff.
 

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i think it has more to do with polotics than a hatred of racing .
which is why myself and too many others got out of racing in the first place
but lets face it who wants to race against people who will do anything to win-
im not talkin aboot dirty racin im talkin aboot substaces,doping the shizz that they dont have the tests for yet
nuero stimulants (toxins) the next steroid of my generation . i already see the after
efects on the BMX side but thats where i came from.
you roadies and XCers understand if you dont you will
 

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Im gonna sit here and take the time to educate you pal
First off Decline's vow to not cover norba has led to the opening of more than a few peoples eyes onto the poor state of moutnian bike racing. Meetings and marketing talks have been planned to make next years norba season a much better experience than what we had this yeah with scott hart declines editor at the forefront. Its sad it took Decline to open up the eyes of norba officials but at least they have been opened.

You say publishing race results for sports and beginners is a good idea. First, pros bring spectators, which brings sponsors. Sport/beginner results takes space in a magazine, theres only so many pages in a magazine, they should be used to focus on pros. A magazine should show the top level of the sport, no one wants to see a picture of beginner 45 super d.

I dont understand your stance on the JACKASS situation, Cam has never made an attempt to jump off a roof and sponsors chomped at the bit and paid him off quite well. Me and Zink have the same stance on the older freeride guys, yes they did a lot for the sport, DID. They are no longer doing anything in the means of progressing the sport so why are they taking 1/3 of the time in the biggest vid of the year and taing spots up in a contest while 25 guys fight for 2 spots. If you watched the qualifier at crankworx you would be as fired up as i am. The older crowd did a lot for the sport but they are now just hindering its growth. It happens people get old, im not saying leave the sport and i respect them but im saying take a step back and let the future in. i think they should take example from breeze and fisher and step out of the limelight but stay involved.

Educate yourself before you rant
 

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jazzy jibber said:
You say publishing race results for sports and beginners is a good idea. First, pros bring spectators, which brings sponsors. Sport/beginner results takes space in a magazine, theres only so many pages in a magazine, they should be used to focus on pros. A magazine should show the top level of the sport, no one wants to see a picture of beginner 45 super d.[ Quote ]

You mentioned giving the young up & comming riders the limelight, but you also say it is wasting pages to post there results. These young guys like to show their friends that there name made it in a magazine, that is what helps keep the fire burning for them. Dont forget the kids, posting there results is not wasting papper, its helping them to achive that goal to be a Pro.
 

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dogonfr said:
jazzy jibber said:
You say publishing race results for sports and beginners is a good idea. First, pros bring spectators, which brings sponsors. Sport/beginner results takes space in a magazine, theres only so many pages in a magazine, they should be used to focus on pros. A magazine should show the top level of the sport, no one wants to see a picture of beginner 45 super d.[ Quote ]

You mentioned giving the young up & comming riders the limelight, but you also say it is wasting pages to post there results. These young guys like to show their friends that there name made it in a magazine, that is what helps keep the fire burning for them. Dont forget the kids, posting there results is not wasting papper, its helping them to achive that goal to be a Pro.
I think that giving Jr. x the limelight is one of teh best things decline has done to date, i dont think posting older classes is appropriate for that magazine. If it was an amateur mag like Final Lap the amateur moto mag, im all for it. I am the last to one to forget about the kids i am one of em.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
jazzy jibber said:
Im gonna sit here and take the time to educate you pal
First off Decline's vow to not cover norba has led to the opening of more than a few peoples eyes onto the poor state of moutnian bike racing. Meetings and marketing talks have been planned to make next years norba season a much better experience than what we had this yeah with scott hart declines editor at the forefront. Its sad it took Decline to open up the eyes of norba officials but at least they have been opened.

You say publishing race results for sports and beginners is a good idea. First, pros bring spectators, which brings sponsors. Sport/beginner results takes space in a magazine, theres only so many pages in a magazine, they should be used to focus on pros. A magazine should show the top level of the sport, no one wants to see a picture of beginner 45 super d.

I dont understand your stance on the JACKASS situation, Cam has never made an attempt to jump off a roof and sponsors chomped at the bit and paid him off quite well. Me and Zink have the same stance on the older freeride guys, yes they did a lot for the sport, DID. They are no longer doing anything in the means of progressing the sport so why are they taking 1/3 of the time in the biggest vid of the year and taing spots up in a contest while 25 guys fight for 2 spots. If you watched the qualifier at crankworx you would be as fired up as i am. The older crowd did a lot for the sport but they are now just hindering its growth. It happens people get old, im not saying leave the sport and i respect them but im saying take a step back and let the future in. i think they should take example from breeze and fisher and step out of the limelight but stay involved.

Educate yourself before you rant
Whats a rant if not a little loose? Anyhow, the whole purpose of my rant was to ask questions and generate some answers...which you did...thanks.
It will be interesting to see what happens with NORBA and Decline next year.
I guess my issue with the *****ing about the "old guys" is that they busted their asses for years to get where they are. What they have now is between them and their sponsors and its been built up over many years. Marketing guys are pretty savvy, smart dudes. If they think that Wade Simmons or Cedric can sell more forks than T-Sage or Cam McZink thats who they will go with. Its up to you and your homies to create a marketable image and pitch it. The old guys have exhibited longevity and stability while youngsters are out there riding passionately and progressively but breaking backs and blowing knees. The old guys know all the shooters and live in close proximity in many cases, or they are trusted travel companions. The shooters know they will get money for getting the old guys on film. So they get the majority of the mag shots and movie segments. You guys are known as dirt jumpers and jibbers. That appeal is not as broad as you'd like it, and frankly DJ segments are notoriously monotonous.
I can barely watch hucking movies these days..I just want to watch race based movies like Earthed and Synopsis.
If you guys want your piece of the pie, you're gonna have to cook it. No ones gonna give it to you, no matter how much you complain.
The JACKASS/skateboard/snowboard sponsorship formula works best when the riders create their own companies, grow and start taking sponsorship risks with young progressive riders. I'm not sure thats feasible in the mtb industry. I agree with you about the Crankworks qualifying issues it sounded pretty lame, but following Hart's logic, you guys should boycott those events...then they'll accept you?
Regarding publishing a broader field of results.....sports and beginners buy product from the sponsors, keeping them stoked is key to building this sport. A results page in the back of the mag would be cool and infinitely more worthwhile than the current Decline standard two page spread of thumbnail pics of drunk freetards and their hussies. "Hey cool! Drunk bike riders in a van in a Wendys drivethru! They are just like me!" Lifestyle pics have a place, but not two full pages in every issue if your gonna get picky about copy and pages and the such.
 

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shabadu said:
you speak to the root of all of the problems...everybody could do that....

Here is a great idea.....

what would you do to improve the norba series??? How do we get more sponsors in it?? How do we get more money for riders?? That the questions we should be trying to answer
 

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Yeah the pros bring fans, but, beginners bring family to the events. The kids are the future of ALL sports, ALL SPORTS.

Talking up bike brands/models, component brands/models & clothing brands used by the riders, especially "winning", not "whinning" riders, during the competitions is what will bring sponsor money to the events & the podiums. The side effect is that it will become the circus that nascar has become, good or bad. No one tells you what derailluer Lopes or Boots is using, or what tires, they just want you to know they are riding in the Paul Mitchell/Jeep King of the Hill series. They even make the pros coverup their sponsor logos & make them wear a PM/Jeep pullover. Biking is so fragmented, xc, dh, freeride, roadies, bmx, ds, 4x...etc. & everyone thinks they are the mack daddy. Everyone of us ride a bike on this earth, we better pull together & act like we care about each other, not cause its Christmas, but, because we love this sport. The bike companies need to be able to get their brand names & logos out there & the event sponsors need to do more than throw up a banner in the back ground of the event. It ain't rocket science, if you can market 8 sec bull rides to the tune of millions & millions of dollars, surely those at the top of the foodchain in the bike world could take a lesson from them.
 

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shabadu said:
Marketing guys are pretty savvy, smart dudes. If they think that Wade Simmons or Cedric can sell more forks than T-Sage or Cam McZink thats who they will go with. Its up to you and your homies to create a marketable image and pitch it.
Hence the public *****ing about the "old guard." Their complaining publicly *is* their marketing strategy, and all this loud talking in forums and in print is part of "creating a marketable image." Hell, I'd never heard of him before he started ranting here and in mags about it, but now people are talking. There's a lot of positive PR value in being an iconoclast, especially in an "outsider" sport like ours...
 

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jazzy jibber said:
Im gonna sit here and take the time to educate you pal
First off Decline's vow to not cover norba has led to the opening of more than a few peoples eyes onto the poor state of moutnian bike racing. Meetings and marketing talks have been planned to make next years norba season a much better experience than what we had this yeah with scott hart declines editor at the forefront. Its sad it took Decline to open up the eyes of norba officials but at least they have been opened.

You say publishing race results for sports and beginners is a good idea. First, pros bring spectators, which brings sponsors. Sport/beginner results takes space in a magazine, theres only so many pages in a magazine, they should be used to focus on pros. A magazine should show the top level of the sport, no one wants to see a picture of beginner 45 super d.

I dont understand your stance on the JACKASS situation, Cam has never made an attempt to jump off a roof and sponsors chomped at the bit and paid him off quite well. Me and Zink have the same stance on the older freeride guys, yes they did a lot for the sport, DID. They are no longer doing anything in the means of progressing the sport so why are they taking 1/3 of the time in the biggest vid of the year and taing spots up in a contest while 25 guys fight for 2 spots. If you watched the qualifier at crankworx you would be as fired up as i am. The older crowd did a lot for the sport but they are now just hindering its growth. It happens people get old, im not saying leave the sport and i respect them but im saying take a step back and let the future in. i think they should take example from breeze and fisher and step out of the limelight but stay involved.

Educate yourself before you rant
who are some of these 25 young guys....?
 

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Freerider coup d'etat

jake gallows said:
Well I hate to say it but Free riders are taking over. I respect all racers but I have friends that dont race at all that would hand alot of seasoned pros there ass. The courses you race on need more big jumps this will help seperate the men from the boys. But I agree with you no magazine coverage of your events doesnt help. But I will say it again free riding is taking over. Just a opinion but the cold truth!
And there have been posts about how sick to death everyone had gotten re: the North Shore focus that Bike had taken prior to it's recent change in editors. It's cyclical (no pun intended). Today's "King of the Hill" is tomorrow's beaten dog licking his wounds.

Freerider's taking over? Big jumps separating the men from the boys? Sounds more like a rush of testosterone and one person's opinion than fact.

Just my testosterone induced opinion, as always.

Bob
 

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Amazing!

The most interesting and important thing about this post is that it drew a thoughtful and useful response from Taylor. That's a big accomplishment, Shaba :D
 

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Nascar vs. Formula 1?

jake gallows said:
Well I hate to say it but Free riders are taking over. I respect all racers but I have friends that dont race at all that would hand alot of seasoned pros there ass. The courses you race on need more big jumps this will help seperate the men from the boys. But I agree with you no magazine coverage of your events doesnt help. But I will say it again free riding is taking over. Just a opinion but the cold truth!
Maybe I'm off base here, but having made the effort years ago to get OLN to watch mountainbiking events and such, only to see such coverage almost completely dry up, I've come to the conclusion that there is a correlation between the perceptions and interest in events like Nascar and F1 car racing. No one can argue the success of the Nascar recipe when compared to the more technical and cerebral aspects of F1. Except for the really hardcore cyclists, XC racing and DH racing hold little interest for the public at large. There's just not enough action for the uninformed to get excited about, and you can't see enough of the action to get a really good feel for what's happening.

One might wonder then how road racing seems to have garnered at least some recent interest. I think that might have more to do with Lance Armstrong, but if you look at the coverage, there may be a Nascar element at work. Road racing allows a full visual view of the action because it's occuring on pavement where access is possible. The racers, or at least groups of racers, can all be viewed instantaneously by modern technology because of that access. There is a great deal of elbow to elbow action at many points during the event that add suspense. Some of these elements are very Nascar-like.

Freeriding is also very Nascar-like in certain respects. Though you don't have the fender-to-fender proximity of participants, you do have the ability to see the entire course. Though there are not multiple contestants banging handlebars, there is tremendous action with a great deal of suspense as to whether the contestant will make the run without great carnage...which is sometimes hoped for by many types of spectators...just like the frequent, exciting, Nascar pileups. Some of this may also explain the higher interest in mountaincross and similar bike racing venues.

DH is more akin to Formula 1 in that the clock is more a factor than fender-to-fender action. Formula 1 doesn't often lend itself to to really close racing from a visual perspective. And while I find DH coverage fascinating, I dont' think the average person, or maybe even the average biker, makes a passionate connection to the sport.

Generally there may also be a more unfortunate element here at work against DH and bicycle racing events at large. To most people bicycles are not that exciting. I mean just about everyone has ridden a bicycle at some time in their life, so how hard can it be? Obviously that's a false perception, but I think it's there in large numbers. This is where freeriding has made some inroads. Due to the extreme nature of this acitivity and its visual excitement, even couch potatoes get a little buzz seeing some of its hairier events. I recall just this last summer when all of the national TV medias played some excerpts from one of the big freeride events during some of their primetime newscasts...and you could even detect the wow factor in the reaction of the announcers. To some degree we may have to acknowledge that bicycling will always be a niche sport with lots of fragmentation. In light of today's entertainment industry and the types of activities that people can view or be a "safe" participant in, bicycling interest as a media event may continue to dwindle. I know this post was mainly discussing a magazine issue, but I think some of my rambling here is inherent in many of the problems facing bicycle events in terms of coverage, sponsorship, and gereral interest.
 

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I'm def on the safe side

jake gallows said:
I see what your saying but you sound like you might be a little on the more safe side in regards to your riding skills. Just like motocross riders, freeriders are headed for the sky.Think about it people want to see guys ripping but I still like racing. I just went a couple weeks ago to Fontana and rode. The track was to easy gotta make **** more knarly. But racing is where it all began so I cant hate on that.
And I have all the respect in the world for the freeride/DH crowd for the risks they take. I just couldn't resist putting my 2 cents in regarding today's hero being tomorrow's has-been. This is more about the cyclical nature of what is popular in cycling than anything. I have no doubt that people shell out money to see riders attempting difficult feats. To put it in perspective, I would guess more money is generated by a single Tour de France than in the combined yearly events of freeride. This may be an exaggeration, but I think the point is made.

Bob
 

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jazzy jibber said:
Me and Zink have the same stance on the older freeride guys, yes they did a lot for the sport, DID. They are no longer doing anything in the means of progressing the sport so why are they taking 1/3 of the time in the biggest vid of the year and taing spots up in a contest while 25 guys fight for 2 spots. If you watched the qualifier at crankworx you would be as fired up as i am. The older crowd did a lot for the sport but they are now just hindering its growth.
Wow. And I thought you were joking in the decline interview, but apparently not!

So, lets just say I'm an average Mtbr- Thats a fair assesment. Anyways, I don't care about norba or racing. I also don't care about guys doing tailwhips in a skatepark or just dirtjumping all day. I mean, it's cool, congrats you got skills, but does it get ME excited about riding? Sorry, it does not- again, no disrespect.

Now, what about the old-school free-riders?
The magazines publish pictures of them in the woods, sometimes just hanging out. Usually the trail/scenery is more than half of whats cool about the picture. Sorry, a nice set of dirt jumps cannot compete with the north shore mountains when it comes to SCENERY, which is something that happens to get me stoked. Not to mention these guys are constantly getting photographed in exotic locations all over the world, places we'd all like to see, riding trails that we'd love to ride. And killer trail building, the stuff that average joe wants to see even if he won't try to ride it. These types of pictures are a lot more relevant & interesting to the average joe trail riding dude than competitions or what appears to be straight dirt jumping.

The reason the "old guys" rock is that average joes can relate to them- yet they are living our dream lifestyle- heli-biking, long descents in the swiss alps with your bros, worlds best trails in your back yard. That gets people stoked. Most of us don't care about pushing the sport, we just want to ride. Not to mention, seeing older guys shred IS cool, because like you said, we all get old. So it's good to see that we all have a chance of still shredding later in life.

if you want to bump the old guys, you gotta have more to offer than they do. Keep trying, maybe you'll get there in another 10 years.
 

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I agree with TNT. I like to watch World Cup DH racing because it it covered very well. If sponsors want to promote DH then they need to expand their coverage on the mountain.

I think that the new school (including me) if they want to make a large impact and a name for themselves need to develop the sport beyond what is available. The largest contributers to FRing is MotoX and BMX. They still have a one up on us since this is a new scene. All of our style and inspiration comes from them. If the new school really thinks that what they are doing is revolutionary like the what the old school did then I would have to agree, but what they are doing is no different than BMX/MotoX. I think that the future of DH and FR is riding it rustic and un-tamed. That is why I like the first couple of Rampages and DropinTV's, because they are raw and untamed. Our future is in the mountains not in a moto arena or skate park.

North shore riding is a different story. I think that there needs to be more promotion and protection of it because it is fragile and can easily be lost. NS is totally and uniquily ours but if trolls like the people who want to shut it down in BC win out then it will die.
 
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