Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Huckin' trails
Joined
·
6,060 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, got my Dart 2 last year during the summer, been riding it all-year long since, even during hard winter conditions. Stanchions are quite scuff everywhere, only cosmetic, and only a notch on the upper part of the right stanchion. Pretty please with it, considering it has gone through the whole winter, dirty city snow, chemicals, rain, mud, etc everyday riding (commute) and it still holds up good.

Only 2 downsides, the stanchions are getting sticky and I think it's time for a full fork service. I've got the Rockshox manual, full instructions, goofy-proof guide, but I still has questions...

They say to use 5wt oil, but since I will be riding in cold weather, could I use a finer oil or something that will keep up better under freezing temp ?

Then, is the 80mm model the same AC length then the 100mm, so that I could manage to trick it into 100mm ?

Then, mine has no rebound adjust, only compression, but could I get a way to plug a rebound adjust damper in the damper leg ?

And is there anyway to get a lockout or something similar in the assembly ?

I don't want to ditch a pricey fork into winter business, so that's why I got that fork.

Thanks,

David
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,725 Posts
Hi, got my Dart 2 last year during the summer, been riding it all-year long since, even during hard winter conditions. Stanchions are quite scuff everywhere, only cosmetic, and only a notch on the upper part of the right stanchion. Pretty please with it, considering it has gone through the whole winter, dirty city snow, chemicals, rain, mud, etc everyday riding (commute) and it still holds up good.

Only 2 downsides, the stanchions are getting sticky and I think it's time for a full fork service. I've got the Rockshox manual, full instructions, goofy-proof guide, but I still has questions...

They say to use 5wt oil, but since I will be riding in cold weather, could I use a finer oil or something that will keep up better under freezing temp ?

You could, but it wont make much of a difference since your fork has no compression damper. It will make a small difference on speeding up the preset rebound though.

Then, is the 80mm model the same AC length then the 100mm, so that I could manage to trick it into 100mm ?

Nope

Then, mine has no rebound adjust, only compression, but could I get a way to plug a rebound adjust damper in the damper leg ?

Your fork doesnt have a compression adjust. The only compression a dart can have is a lock out and you said you dont have one. Your most likely confusing the spring preload adjuster with a compression adjuster.

And is there anyway to get a lockout or something similar in the assembly ?
You could add the TK damper from the dart 3, but it wouldnt be worth the money.

I don't want to ditch a pricey fork into winter business, so that's why I got that fork.

Thanks,

David
:thumbsup:
 

·
Huckin' trails
Joined
·
6,060 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
:thumbsup:
Thanks.

So what oil should I get ? Like 2.5wt ? Is anything like that. Even a small difference will worth the shot.

Then yes, I meant spring preload by saying compression. It's that marketing BS that identify that preload as "compression adjust" that got me again... And a lockout of a Dart 3 should fit ? Because then I check for Dart 3 forks sold for parts only, etc...

Then no rebound adjust can be add ? The newer Dart 2 are having external rebound as standard feature, so it means the lowers have been modified in consequences or is there any conversion I could try ?

Then I've just checked the fork and I feel play between the uppers and lower, so I guess I'll need a bushings kit. Should I also replace seals at the same time, I mean are seals included in a package deal to service the fork or do bushings and seals not sold together ? If I don't have to replace the seals yet, I'll wait, since they don't seems to have any problem yet.

Then, on the crown it says 09, so I guess the crown was manufactured in 2009, but on the lower's axle it say 4 and 8, so it is April 2008 ? I also have the SN sticker still holding up (that sticker is damn good lol).

I guess a bushings kit and seals should be around $30 ? Then installation fees by my lbs. Since I don't have any oil ready, but the manual says that all the oil in in the upper leg, could I remove the lowers to check and clean the seals/bushings without loosing any oil ?

Thanks,

David
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,725 Posts
Thanks.

So what oil should I get ? Like 2.5wt ? Is anything like that. Even a small difference will worth the shot.

Then yes, I meant spring preload by saying compression. It's that marketing BS that identify that preload as "compression adjust" that got me again... And a lockout of a Dart 3 should fit ? Because then I check for Dart 3 forks sold for parts only, etc...

Then no rebound adjust can be add ? The newer Dart 2 are having external rebound as standard feature, so it means the lowers have been modified in consequences or is there any conversion I could try ?

Then I've just checked the fork and I feel play between the uppers and lower, so I guess I'll need a bushings kit. Should I also replace seals at the same time, I mean are seals included in a package deal to service the fork or do bushings and seals not sold together ? If I don't have to replace the seals yet, I'll wait, since they don't seems to have any problem yet.

Then, on the crown it says 09, so I guess the crown was manufactured in 2009, but on the lower's axle it say 4 and 8, so it is April 2008 ? I also have the SN sticker still holding up (that sticker is damn good lol).

I guess a bushings kit and seals should be around $30 ? Then installation fees by my lbs. Since I don't have any oil ready, but the manual says that all the oil in in the upper leg, could I remove the lowers to check and clean the seals/bushings without loosing any oil ?

Thanks,

David
You may not be feeling play in between the uppers and lowers. The Dart series of forks are very flexy, even out of the box. I dont think the bushing in Darts are replaceable anyway. They are not replaceable in the Tora line of forks which is a step up from the Dart, So I would be very surprised if they are. I also wouldnt replace the seals unless they are allow bath oil to slip by them(do darts have bath oil? they may have grease instead)

As for the damper, anything from a dart 3 Should transfer over to your dart 2. That includes rebound damper and compression damper.

For oil, they are not all created equal. Some brands of 5wt oil are the same viscosity as 2.5wt, while some 2.5wt is the same at 7.5wt. If you do a google search, there is a chart that has all that information for you.
 

·
Huckin' trails
Joined
·
6,060 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Bad news...Dart forks do not have serviceable bushings.

If you have developed bushing slop, you have to replace the entire lowers.
Really ?

Then what about the seals ? I mean, that fork is just a bit older then 1 year, I got it new in end of July last year, and has about 1 000km and 100 hours... So I guess it's time to service it, but really, the bushings being shot ?

I had a already used set of v-brake pads on it when I got it and they still have some life left... and the bushings of the fork being dead is kind of weird... Those pads have went through everything the fork has and they are ok... I didn't even touch them since I installed the fork, so they were perfectly set-up...

But can I remove the lowers without spilling any oil ? Then I could get a good look at the internal condition...

Thanks,

David
 

·
Huckin' trails
Joined
·
6,060 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Suspension Fluid - Pvdwiki

About 2/3 of the way down the page is a chart showing the [email protected], the lower the number the thinner the oil.
Now you just got me so much tangled into that thing... damn. I guess I will stick with RockShox oil and get a 2.5wt... or take a few hours and see what can I mix up...

But maybe it's only the flex of the fork too... I'm really new to playing around with suspension fork and damping system, so I'm learning here... It seems all simple and so complicated at the same time... pretty much like anything else on a bike :p

Ok... So what about the lowers removal ?

Thanks,

David
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,725 Posts
Now you just got me so much tangled into that thing... damn. I guess I will stick with RockShox oil and get a 2.5wt... or take a few hours and see what can I mix up...

But maybe it's only the flex of the fork too... I'm really new to playing around with suspension fork and damping system, so I'm learning here... It seems all simple and so complicated at the same time... pretty much like anything else on a bike :p

Ok... So what about the lowers removal ?

Thanks,

David
To remove the lowers, just take the wheel and brakes off, unbolt the lowers half way. Give the bolts(while still partially threaded in still) a small tap with a hammer to unseat the spring and damper shafts. remove the bolts and the lowers will slide right off. If they use semi bath oil, a very small amount of oil may come out, but only a few cc's.

For servicing the lowers, I poor some isopropyl rubbing alcohol in them and poor it back out a few times to clean everything out. wipe the seals off and put some good grease on them. Once all the alcohol is dry, Slide them back on half way and inject 5-8 cc's of oil through each bolt hole. Slide the lowers on all the way and tighten them up and the fork will feel much smoother.
 

·
Class Clown
Joined
·
3,773 Posts
You could remove them without spilling oil I suppose but there's not a ton in the lowers to begin with and it would be good to replace it anyway. If you really want you could flip the fork when you undo and tap the bolts and then plug the bolt holes with something, flip the fork right-side up and remove the lowers.

If you PM me your e-mail I can send you a few PDFs I've gathered related to Rockshox forks and specifically the Dart.

You probably don't even need new seals, they are easy enough to replace if you do. As for bushings I'm no expert but wouldn't you be able to feel the play by grabbing the uppers with 1 hand lowers with the other hand and seeing if there is any? Anything else you notice while riding is probably just flex from the skinny stanchions.
 

·
Huckin' trails
Joined
·
6,060 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
To remove the lowers, just take the wheel and brakes off, unbolt the lowers half way. Give the bolts(while still partially threaded in still) a small tap with a hammer to unseat the spring and damper shafts. remove the bolts and the lowers will slide right off. If they use semi bath oil, a very small amount of oil may come out, but only a few cc's.

For servicing the lowers, I poor some isopropyl rubbing alcohol in them and poor it back out a few times to clean everything out. wipe the seals off and put some good grease on them. Once all the alcohol is dry, Slide them back on half way and inject 5-8 cc's of oil through each bolt hole. Slide the lowers on all the way and tighten them up and the fork will feel much smoother.
Well, I knew about that part. But the RockShox manual didn't said to add any oil in the lowers, but I will change the travel in a just newly serviced Judy, and my mech had put a bit more oil into it, to ensure I still has enough of it if I loose some while opening the fork. So I'll get the remaining of that oil after I'm done with it and use it to lube the lowers.

And I actually have 2 type of greases... A white lithium grease and some nice thick dark bearing grease... which one should I use to lube the bushings ? And how much ? Just a bit like I would do on a shock bolt or kinda more ?

And thanks for the offer dundun :)

Thanks.

David
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Are you sure that you don't have rebound? Maybe just the adjuster on the bottom of the right leg fell off. Try putting long side of 2.5 Allen key (without the ball end) into the hole on the bottom of the right leg and turn left and right. On the Dart you should have only about half of turn for adjusting rebound.
 

·
Huckin' trails
Joined
·
6,060 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Are you sure that you don't have rebound? Maybe just the adjuster on the bottom of the right leg fell off. Try putting long side of 2.5 Allen key (without the ball end) into the hole on the bottom of the right leg and turn left and right. On the Dart you should have only about half of turn for adjusting rebound.
Well, I don't think so, since both bolts have 5mm head and no holes in it, but I know what you are talking about. I'll check anyway.

Thanks,

David
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,725 Posts
Are you sure that you don't have rebound? Maybe just the adjuster on the bottom of the right leg fell off. Try putting long side of 2.5 Allen key (without the ball end) into the hole on the bottom of the right leg and turn left and right. On the Dart you should have only about half of turn for adjusting rebound.
A lot of older Dart 2 forks come with preset rebound, some OEM versions still do.

Out of your greases, I would go with the lithium grease because its less likely to turn sticky over time.
 

·
Huckin' trails
Joined
·
6,060 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
A lot of older Dart 2 forks come with preset rebound, some OEM versions still do.

Out of your greases, I would go with the lithium grease because its less likely to turn sticky over time.
Ok. But mine was not specified as having the rebound feature when I purchase it. I was aware of the Dart 2 having rebound, but maybe be I could find some parts to do so... I would be more interested in a lockout first.

And thanks for the grease.

David
 

·
Huckin' trails
Joined
·
6,060 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Ok.

So I've open it up, clean everything and put it back together...

When I broke loose the shaft bolt for the right leg (damper one), oil start dripping out a bit, then when I started removing the lowers, all the oil got out. I had place an oil pan under, so I got all the oil. The oil was a bit dark, so I wouldn't have reuse it. I was not ready to change oil tonight, as I was hoping the oil to stay in the upper leg, based on the manual that says to fill up the oil in the upper before reinstalling the lowers, so technically, the oil should had been only in the upper, making it a semi-bath ? But since the oil is traveling between the upper and lower, it's a open bath, no ?

So I got everything back up and I will get sone oil tomorrow morning to be able to ride to my class... I've talk to a lbs and they say to get motorcycle fork oil, it's cheaper and performs better. They say they do all their oil changes with moto oil. So I'll check it out.

I'll post pics soon. Maybe tomorrow.

Thanks,

David
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Darts (and Toras) that I serviced so far, always have two type oils in the fork. In the lowers goes only 15wt fork (or 5w40 engine) oil, around 5-15ml in each leg (depending of leg and fork). It is used for lubrication of bushings and stanchions. Most probably, that is that drained from lowers.
In the damper goes RS 5wt fork oil (100-140ml depending on the fork). However, because you don't have any lockout, compresion or rebound damper, I don't think that you need that oil at all.

Search for these videos on youtube (I can't post links on the forum yet)

05 - ROCK SHOX Lower Leg Removal-SRAM.mov

04 - ROCK SHOX Lower Leg Install-SRAM.mov
 

·
Huckin' trails
Joined
·
6,060 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well, I've checked and I believe my fork to be a 2009.

As far as it goes, the oil in the right leg is traveling between the upper and lower, allowing the damping effect. Thicker oil will slow it down and finer oil will speed it up. And since there is no valving, its normal that the oil drained out when I removed the lowers. So since the oil is traveling everywhere in the right leg, I just put back 150ml of 5w fork oil today.

But I think I will get some 10-15wt oil into the left leg, to help lubricating the stanchion and bushings, since there's nothing else then a small amount of grease... Should I put the oil from the shaft bolt hole in the lower or remove the spring assembly and pour the oil in ? Since I put back new oil, I don't wanna drain it again only to add oil to the other leg... I'll figure it out.

Thanks,

David
 

·
Class Clown
Joined
·
3,773 Posts
Dart 3/spacer question

Figured I'd post it here.

I bought a new spring kit for my Dart 3, it's a softer spring. Here's the link:
Amazon.com: RockShox Spring+spacer kit, 07-09 Dart - soft/black: Sports & Outdoors

My question is about the spacer. It comes with 2 different ones. The 1 reviewer stated to use the smaller one (shorter blue one) to get more travel so I did. Seems to work fine.

I'm wondering what difference it would make to use the longer spacer, I don't really know what they do?
 

·
Huckin' trails
Joined
·
6,060 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Figured I'd post it here.

I bought a new spring kit for my Dart 3, it's a softer spring. Here's the link:
Amazon.com: RockShox Spring+spacer kit, 07-09 Dart - soft/black: Sports & Outdoors

My question is about the spacer. It comes with 2 different ones. The 1 reviewer stated to use the smaller one (shorter blue one) to get more travel so I did. Seems to work fine.

I'm wondering what difference it would make to use the longer spacer, I don't really know what they do?
I think it's to prevent the spring from too much bending when compressing... So if you're close to 170#, put the long one to help the spring stay straight, or use the shorter one if closer to 100# to help the spring to compress more by allowing it to bend a bit more...

Just a theory, but sounds plausible... I'm 110, so... But when I service my Dart, I had the black spring with the long gray spacer... Maybe getting the blue spacer will help me to handle better ?

David

P.S. I hate Amazon listing design... when I visit the link you provided for the spring, it has a relative item list in at the bottom, and I find this rebound damper for sell... $26, but the listing is kinda ****edup...

Amazon.com: Rockshox Dart 2/3 Rebound Damper: Sports & Outdoors

I hate Amazon for that...
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top