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Dammed spring won't stay put!

621 Views 13 Replies 8 Participants Last post by Roy, Jul 16, 2004

Bikezilla

Discussion Starter · Jul 12, 2004

I've been testing a stiffer spring but because it requires less preload, the preload ring unwinds during rides. When it does the spring shifts a bit when compressed and creaks. The only way seems to be cranking the PLC enough so that spring tension holds it in place. That reduces my sag though.

Any thoughts?
Some kind of light, reuseable threadlocker? Teflon tape on the threads? Zip-tie on the threads just above the preload collar?

Also, is there some magic substance to elimnate the creaking when the spring does shift? Grease doses not seem to do the trick.
TIA

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Dirdir

· #2 · Jul 12, 2004

Can't comment on the unwinding problem, but my Romic squeeks too when compressing, so I was hoping someone could help with this very minor issue. I hate bike noise.

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CrashTheDOG

· #3 · Jul 12, 2004

Bikezilla said:
Any thoughts?

Hmmm.... the only thing that I can think of that you probably already have covered is to make sure that the joint at the top of the spring that is created by the coil terminating into itself is NOT positioned in the gap on upper retainer ring. If it was I'm not sure this would contribute to the rotation anyway, but it would the noise.

As far as the rotation goes I think you're on track with the thread locker. I'd get the sag set where you want it and then place 3-4 drops of BLUE Loctite on the threads right above adjustable retainer ring and let gravity draw it down into the threads, as you rotate the ring back and forth a couple of time. If that doesn't stop it try RED, it'll be a b!tch to adjust but I doubt it'll move.

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jncarpenter

· #4 · Jul 12, 2004

Bikezilla said:
I've been testing a stiffer spring but because it requires less preload, the preload ring unwinds during rides. When it does the spring shifts a bit when compressed and creaks. The only way seems to be cranking the PLC enough so that spring tension holds it in place. That reduces my sag though.

Any thoughts?
Some kind of light, reuseable threadlocker? Teflon tape on the threads? Zip-tie on the threads just above the preload collar?

Also, is there some magic substance to elimnate the creaking when the spring does shift? Grease doses not seem to do the trick.
TIA

....my spring is actually a little lighter than I need & it still creaks like a MOFO!!!!!!!!!

......my suggestion (as well as my solution)....Fox DHX 5.0.....!!!

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Blue Shorts

· #5 · Jul 12, 2004

Bikezilla said:
I've been testing a stiffer spring but because it requires less preload, the preload ring unwinds during rides. When it does the spring shifts a bit when compressed and creaks. The only way seems to be cranking the PLC enough so that spring tension holds it in place. That reduces my sag though.

Any thoughts?
Some kind of light, reuseable threadlocker? Teflon tape on the threads? Zip-tie on the threads just above the preload collar?

Also, is there some magic substance to elimnate the creaking when the spring does shift? Grease doses not seem to do the trick.
TIA

Hey Zilla,

Where's your starting point? ANything less than 1/2 turn is too little based on my experience, and tends to loosen. If you really require less preload than that, I'd suggest going to the next softer rate.

Also, as someone else here suggested, try rotating the spring so that a different part of the spring contacts the upper cap.

You can use loctite as suggested, but I always consider loctite a bandaid, not a fix.

I also wonder if you can get another preload ring and tighten one against the other....like lock nuts

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Roy

· #6 · Jul 12, 2004

You nailed it - I'm sure several wraps of teflon tape would solve your problem.

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Bikezilla

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jul 12, 2004

Another possible solution...

Blue Shorts said:
Where's your starting point? ANything less than 1/2 turn is too little based on my experience, and tends to loosen. If you really require less preload than that, I'd suggest going to the next softer rate.

Also, as someone else here suggested, try rotating the spring so that a different part of the spring contacts the upper cap.

You can use loctite as suggested, but I always consider loctite a bandaid, not a fix.

I also wonder if you can get another preload ring and tighten one against the other....like lock nuts

Heck, with only 1/2 a turn and I can even jiggle it. For me the light preload (~1-1/2 turns) It just won't sit still, at 1 turn I can still shift the spring by hand. Even with the loctite, the spring could still shift and creak.(as JNC points out.)

Here's another idea: I'm going to try and find a sheet of teflon or durlin or some other kind of tough plastic and cut a pair of washers to seat the spring ends on. If the material is ~ 0.5-1.0mm thick it should hold up to the wear and the spring can quietly go about it's little dance.

Blue, good idea about the lockring. Considering Romic charged me $25 bucks for the eyelet reducer lugs I won't bother finding out how much the want for a real part. I might go with the locktite to keep the ring in place...

JnC, Y'know the DHX is on my UGI list, it's competing for #1 with one of those '05 forks.

Roy, I may have other plans for that teflon tape too...Blue your're going to like this one... I'm going to wrap my steerer tube and see if that takes the creak out of my Th0mson stem. Don't worry I'll check it for grip before taking it outside.

Back to the lab...Igor! fire up the generators! <Yesssss Master!>

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jncarpenter

· #8 · Jul 12, 2004 (Edited)

Bikezilla said:
Here's another idea: I'm going to try and find a sheet of teflon or durlin or some other kind of tough plastic and cut a pair of washers to seat the spring ends on. If the material is ~ 0.5-1.0mm thick it should hold up to the wear and the spring can quietly go about it's little dance. <YESSSSS Master!>

....been there, done that......no dice!!!!!!!! I believe the SQUEAAAAK! is coming from the coils rubbing against themselves (why preload is necessary to experience it) somewhere near the ends. I even tried greasing the coils & it only slightly helped....

BZ.........ride that 'zocchi some more & cure your romic ailment!

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rr

· #9 · Jul 12, 2004

Mine creaked like a mofo on my Truth, my 2 riding buddies with 5 Spots don't have any issues though?? Romic told me to just clean/lube the coil ends, but it only worked for a few rides-very annoying noise!

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Bikezilla

Discussion Starter · #10 · Jul 12, 2004

rroeder said:
Mine creaked like a mofo on my Truth, my 2 riding buddies with 5 Spots don't have any issues though?? Romic told me to just clean/lube the coil ends, but it only worked for a few rides-very annoying noise!

Like the shocks, the Romic springs seem to be a hit-n-miss success story. My other spring never made a peep. Still, I love how the shock works...this DHX better be real good!

Jncarpenter said:
...I believe the SQUEAAAAK! is coming from the coils rubbing against themselves

That seems reasonable. Hmm maybe I can wedge a ~0.5mm thick strip of teflon between the coil ends? If that works I can take what I learned to fix the squeak in my bed...but that's another story

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Monte

· #11 · Jul 13, 2004

CrashTheDOG said:
Hmmm.... the only thing that I can think of that you probably already have covered is to make sure that the joint at the top of the spring that is created by the coil terminating into itself is NOT positioned in the gap on upper retainer ring. If it was I'm not sure this would contribute to the rotation anyway, but it would the noise.

As far as the rotation goes I think you're on track with the thread locker. I'd get the sag set where you want it and then place 3-4 drops of BLUE Loctite on the threads right above adjustable retainer ring and let gravity draw it down into the threads, as you rotate the ring back and forth a couple of time. If that doesn't stop it try RED, it'll be a b!tch to adjust but I doubt it'll move.

Or try the Purple first, it's below Blue in strength, but the diameter of the retaining ring helps with that.

Blue would be a *****, I wouldn't even think about Red, you need heat to remove it.

Monte

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Roy

· #12 · Jul 16, 2004

Creaking

jncarpenter said:
....been there, done that......no dice!!!!!!!! I believe the SQUEAAAAK! is coming from the coils rubbing against themselves (why preload is necessary to experience it) somewhere near the ends. I even tried greasing the coils & it only slightly helped....

BZ.........ride that 'zocchi some more & cure your romic ailment!

I've had nasty creaks show up in my Fox Vanilla RC and in my Romic - in both cases it was dirt/grit getting into the top mount bushings in the shock. This shows up periodically and when it does, all I do is pop out the bushings, clean, and apply a tiny amount of a very light lube - my personal preference is Slick Honey, my friend prefers to use anti-seize (yes, anti-seize) as the lube.
Outside of that, neither shock has ever creaked on me (knock on wood).

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Bikezilla

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jul 16, 2004

Roy said:
I've had nasty creaks show up in my Fox Vanilla RC and in my Romic - in both cases it was dirt/grit getting into the top mount bushings in the shock. This shows up periodically and when it does, all I do is pop out the bushings, clean, and apply a tiny amount of a very light lube ...

Thanks for the insight.

Definately not the case for me. I check my shock eyelets every time I pull it off to grease the Zerks...Never had dirt in there. Also, only one of my springs squeak.

BTW the Romic manual says you should not grease any part of the shock mounting hardware. The eyelet sleeve is self lubricating due to the material it's made of. The Reducers are supposed to bind against each other and the rocker arms to form a single unit, which rotates within the eyelet....that said considering how fast the eyelet hardware wears out, I doubt a little Slick Honey or Prep-M would hurt.

That said, I cut some mylar rings and placed them on top and beneath the spring, it's been very quitet on the one ride It's been on. I used a Troy-Lee glove bag for the material. I wonder if the mylar will outlast the whimpy (but oh-so cool looking) GT gloves....I ripped through two pair in half a season. Not on the ground but adjusting the velcro straps on my pads. I now use "leather" mechanic's gloves....tough as nails not noticeably hotter.

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Roy

· #14 · Jul 16, 2004

Bikezilla said:
Thanks for the insight.
Definately not the case for me. I check my shock eyelets every time I pull it off to grease the Zerks...Never had dirt in there. Also, only one of my springs squeak.

Although I don't think it's your problem, sometimes the bushings wear to a point that they start to squeak. I would lube them lightly to remove them as a possible squeak source (again it sounds like in your case it is indeed your spring).

BTW the Romic manual says you should not grease any part of the shock mounting hardware. The eyelet sleeve is self lubricating due to the material it's made of. The Reducers are supposed to bind against each other and the rocker arms to form a single unit, which rotates within the eyelet....that said considering how fast the eyelet hardware wears out, I doubt a little Slick Honey or Prep-M would hurt.

This I was not aware of, however I can't take credit for the lightly lube idea - DGC taught me that one a long long time ago. The man knows all. I bought Slick Honey back then solely for this and at the rate I'm going thru it, the one jar is going to last into the year 3050. Even if the Romic manual says you shouldn't, I would as it should also slow the wear out problem of eyelet hardware. Because of the bolt acting as an axle through both bushings, one side should never rotate more than another even if they aren't bound. There's no opposing torque on each side of the mount.

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