[GiantMartin]

Going up to Durham Forest on Monday, remember hearing something about Dagmar being closed last year is this true?

 

[djdirty]

Yes

 

[Swerny]

Dagmar's been closed for years now

 

[Ricksom]

Yes, and 75% already completely vanished

Not only closed, but the trails have grown over. I did a scout there last year, and could only find about 25% of the trails (singletrack), and even then I stumbled only on heavily eroded sections that started and ended to nothing.

For the record, this is a great scientific study of mountain bike trails, and proves, once and for all, that mountain bikers DO NOT create permanent damage to forests. It only took 4 years for most of the trails to disappear. After 10 years I doubt you will find anything.

 

[jmurray]

For the record, this is a great scientific study of mountain bike trails, and proves, once and for all, that mountain bikers DO NOT create permanent damage to forests. It only took 4 years for most of the trails to disappear. After 10 years I doubt you will find anything.

I wouldn't go that far Riksom. It certainly is not scientific. It is the epitome of anecdotal. But since it is on the TRCA land it should have some weight to it. And while the trails have grown over you did say you had no trouble finding the eroded sections. The top soil that was on those eroded sections is gone, for a long time. If the trails had been built sustainably this erosion could have been minimized.

The TRCA is still exploring options to gain access to that property. The problem is that it is "land locked" with no easy access to it. All the access points that do touch roads have other problems with them. You pretty much have to cross private property. And that owner is not interested. The current idea is a land swap of some kind.

Join the DMBA is you want to support efforts such as this. Or at least be kept up to date on what is happening in the Durham Region.

 

[Ricksom]

Yes, yes, yes. The worries of this world over erosion. Bet you didn't know that the south-west corner of the Glenn Major tract was the Timber Brothers Gravel Pit 30 years ago (ever wonder why it is in the shape of a "pit").
Pretty hard to see bare rock in there now. Even old asphalt highway starts eroding away after 50 years in our forests. I will go out on a limp and say that "permanent erosion damage" is an emotionally conceived misnomer.

 

[jmurray]

Yes, yes, yes. The worries of this world over erosion. Bet you didn't know that the south-west corner of the Glenn Major tract was the Timber Brothers Gravel Pit 30 years ago (ever wonder why it is in the shape of a "pit").
Pretty hard to see bare rock in there now. Even old asphalt highway starts eroding away after 50 years in our forests. I will go out on a limp and say that "permanent erosion damage" is an emotionally conceived misnomer.

Come on Rick. Of course I know that after all I'm on the stewardship committee for the property. But, the regeneration that you see there is not natural, it has been as a result of a major effort from the TRCA and locals that was made possible by numerous sources of funding.

You can go out on a limb. After all there is where the fruit is. But there are quite a number of environmental scientists who wouldn't agree with you. Once the top soil is gone it takes upwards of 50 years for it to regenerate. So not permanent, but long term at least frrom the lifespan of a human.

And of course you have to consider where the top soil is eroding to. Some will actually be used downslope, but a lot will get washed into "sand puddles" or streams causing siltation in the water.

 

[Ricksom]

Good, just testing you........
Me, as I get older, I find more than 150 years to be old and long term......if things don't change after that long......well, that would be permanent. Heck, look at Algonquin Park. That was a clear cut, burned down, wasteland just over 140 years ago. Now people are fighting over each other to preserve this "natural" and ecological "nature reserve" (Hmmm, sounds a lot like Glenn Major....you think).
Nice to see you're paying attention.