curious
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Well first off i really don't think a mountain biking forum is the best place ot discuss this. But with that disclaimer said, i'll voice my opinion.
Remember before you were born? no? well thats what its like to be dead. Exactly the same as before you were born. Nothingness. this life is just a random blip, nothing more, nothing less. So make the best of it.
Is that what i feel? maybe, maybe not. I'll be the first to admit that i'm confused and don't know where my religous beliefs lie. I'm not going to say i'm athestic or thestic, just confused. But the above paragraph is what the common athest view is.
PS: if you ever want to take this ocnverstion farther, we can e-mail or aim anytime.
Remember before you were born? no? well thats what its like to be dead. Exactly the same as before you were born. Nothingness. this life is just a random blip, nothing more, nothing less. So make the best of it.
Is that what i feel? maybe, maybe not. I'll be the first to admit that i'm confused and don't know where my religous beliefs lie. I'm not going to say i'm athestic or thestic, just confused. But the above paragraph is what the common athest view is.
PS: if you ever want to take this ocnverstion farther, we can e-mail or aim anytime.
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Maybe the moderators can move this to the correct forum.
Took me a couple of years to become comfortable with the idea that no god exists, and now I'm fine with it. I happen to think that many (not all!) people who believe in God, are just afraid NOT to.
Sure, there's a lot of mystery to life, like why was I born into this body and situation? What is the universe all about? But I sure don't think it was one supreme being responsible for it all.
The concept of God gives people comfort and strength, which is fine. I just replaced the concept with that of faith in myself and my resources.
Took me a couple of years to become comfortable with the idea that no god exists, and now I'm fine with it. I happen to think that many (not all!) people who believe in God, are just afraid NOT to.
Sure, there's a lot of mystery to life, like why was I born into this body and situation? What is the universe all about? But I sure don't think it was one supreme being responsible for it all.
The concept of God gives people comfort and strength, which is fine. I just replaced the concept with that of faith in myself and my resources.
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Thought the X-ian biker thing would be moved to the other forum too, but it hasn't. A question to those that believe in a god/gods---what leads you to believe they exist? And where did the god/gods come from? Do they in turn have their own gods, etc. etc.?
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other questions
Do you really think EVERYbody's going to Heaven?
Why would I continue to worship a God who's only going to refuse me admittance to Heaven for having premarital sex/using contraception, when everything else I do is good and moral?
People think it's like branding themselves, when they say they're Catholic. As if that alone makes them better people.
Do you really think EVERYbody's going to Heaven?
Why would I continue to worship a God who's only going to refuse me admittance to Heaven for having premarital sex/using contraception, when everything else I do is good and moral?
People think it's like branding themselves, when they say they're Catholic. As if that alone makes them better people.
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People like you "scare" me. I wonder if many that share your belief feel they can violate society's norms--because--well -. hey---it really is not going to matter at the end. It really is just all about me and there will be no one to answer to or even a me to be judged.
Oh no matter---I believe ALL will be "saved" from the eternal damnation of hell anyway. Now for the non-creator/savior type of thinking folk maybe there really will be nothingness---just especially for them though. An utter ultimate destruction without pain or suffering.
Oh no matter---I believe ALL will be "saved" from the eternal damnation of hell anyway. Now for the non-creator/savior type of thinking folk maybe there really will be nothingness---just especially for them though. An utter ultimate destruction without pain or suffering.
Christine said:
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Or having a friendly relationship with someone of the opposite sex while married?
Yeah everyone who believes I think will be saved---those that don't I think will really just cease to exist spiritually.
Well, I was raised catholic and went to such a grade school---now that is what wore me out on going to church. In fact 10 of my 18 years of formal education was received at Catholic institutions.
I wonder if people that are atheist ever had the chance to even go to church. Maybe a class ought to be mandatory in high school and colleges; taught from differing viewpoints so at least those that never met God could at least make a decision after having at least some background.
Yeah everyone who believes I think will be saved---those that don't I think will really just cease to exist spiritually.
Well, I was raised catholic and went to such a grade school---now that is what wore me out on going to church. In fact 10 of my 18 years of formal education was received at Catholic institutions.
I wonder if people that are atheist ever had the chance to even go to church. Maybe a class ought to be mandatory in high school and colleges; taught from differing viewpoints so at least those that never met God could at least make a decision after having at least some background.
Christine said:
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People like you scare me.ArmySlowRdr said:
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Another pointless opinion....
I spent all 12 years of my grade school and high school education in Catholic schools, all of my family is Catholic as well. I came out of all of this with no reason to be a religious person. I don't think it is a matter of most athiests not having the exposure to a religion, most have likely weighed both sides and made an educated decision on how they will live their lives. Just because they have decided to not follow a religion doesn't mean they will be bad people or that they have never had to opportunity to get into a religion.
Personnally I think that major religions start with good intentions to give people support and a good set of morals and values to live by but most have become pretty corrupt and are responsible for a big part of the violence, prejudice and war that we see in the world today. I don't think it is necessarily intentional but many religions tend to teach a country club kind of elitist attitudes where a person of that religion thinks better of themselves and their destiny than the non-members.
Bottom line, I hold nothing against someone if they choose to follow a religion or not, it doesn't mean they are better or worse people than I am, they just believe something different than myself. I have come to feel that how you live life and the morals you live by are MUCH more important than who or what you worship. I think it's a total joke to think that there is a god out there that will allow horrible people into heaven or wherever because they went to church and belived in a god but those that make the most of their lives and treat those around them with the utmost respect all the way til the end get left behind. Would any god really be that unjust? If that's really the way it is, then afterlife or not, I'll do my own thing and suffer the consequences.
FWIW, I hope there is a god and that we all get to happily live forever, I bet heaven looks something like Fruita or Moab!
I spent all 12 years of my grade school and high school education in Catholic schools, all of my family is Catholic as well. I came out of all of this with no reason to be a religious person. I don't think it is a matter of most athiests not having the exposure to a religion, most have likely weighed both sides and made an educated decision on how they will live their lives. Just because they have decided to not follow a religion doesn't mean they will be bad people or that they have never had to opportunity to get into a religion.
Personnally I think that major religions start with good intentions to give people support and a good set of morals and values to live by but most have become pretty corrupt and are responsible for a big part of the violence, prejudice and war that we see in the world today. I don't think it is necessarily intentional but many religions tend to teach a country club kind of elitist attitudes where a person of that religion thinks better of themselves and their destiny than the non-members.
Bottom line, I hold nothing against someone if they choose to follow a religion or not, it doesn't mean they are better or worse people than I am, they just believe something different than myself. I have come to feel that how you live life and the morals you live by are MUCH more important than who or what you worship. I think it's a total joke to think that there is a god out there that will allow horrible people into heaven or wherever because they went to church and belived in a god but those that make the most of their lives and treat those around them with the utmost respect all the way til the end get left behind. Would any god really be that unjust? If that's really the way it is, then afterlife or not, I'll do my own thing and suffer the consequences.
FWIW, I hope there is a god and that we all get to happily live forever, I bet heaven looks something like Fruita or Moab!
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I'm gonna say that that's probably not what Christine meant. Not all people stay within society's norms just because they fear punishment in the afterlife. Many are good people because they feel that they owe it to themselves and others around them to be good people. I have no problem with religious people, but those who judge others because of their religious beliefs are no different from racists or sexists.ArmySlowRdr said:
Maybe a class should be mandatory in church so that those who have gone to church because of their parents can see the other side and make their own decision?
no, probably not the correct forum for this topic. i should probably take a philosophy class. feel free to not comment and move on.
so then, if there is no God, the incredible complexity of the infinite universe is just a random happening. impossible for me to grasp the concept of the universe just going on and on (infinity). if it in fact does. also impossible for me to imagine that the universe is random. nothing giving direction. dna random, i think not.
so, if there is nothing more beyond this life. what drives an atheist to try to be a good person and have value for their life and others? the definite limits of this life? why not just take, take, take. damn the consequences, there are none. jail, if you get caught i suppose. no, there is some internal thing called a conscience. learned or born with?
so then, if there is no God, the incredible complexity of the infinite universe is just a random happening. impossible for me to grasp the concept of the universe just going on and on (infinity). if it in fact does. also impossible for me to imagine that the universe is random. nothing giving direction. dna random, i think not.
so, if there is nothing more beyond this life. what drives an atheist to try to be a good person and have value for their life and others? the definite limits of this life? why not just take, take, take. damn the consequences, there are none. jail, if you get caught i suppose. no, there is some internal thing called a conscience. learned or born with?
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"so then, if there is no God, the incredible complexity of the infinite universe is just a random happening. impossible for me to grasp the concept of the universe just going on and on (infinity). if it in fact does. also impossible for me to imagine that the universe is random. nothing giving direction. dna random, i think not.
So how does religion assure you that the universe doesn't go on and on? Where did your god originate? You aren't bothered by that?
"so, if there is nothing more beyond this life. what drives an atheist to try to be a good person and have value for their life and others? the definite limits of this life? why not just take, take, take. damn the consequences, there are none. jail, if you get caught i suppose. no, there is some internal thing called a conscience. learned or born with?"
Personally I derive my drive to be a good person by simply respecting others and life in general. Life has a limit; what is so hard about dealing with that? You need to think of yourself as immortal to be a better person? I've seen far more evidence of those using religion as a basis for the take, take, take thing or behaving badly than the other way around. Sounds like church indoctrination to believe that without the church you would succumb to your basest survival instincts to "take, take, take" rather than cooperate rationally with others and share and respect.
So how does religion assure you that the universe doesn't go on and on? Where did your god originate? You aren't bothered by that?
"so, if there is nothing more beyond this life. what drives an atheist to try to be a good person and have value for their life and others? the definite limits of this life? why not just take, take, take. damn the consequences, there are none. jail, if you get caught i suppose. no, there is some internal thing called a conscience. learned or born with?"
Personally I derive my drive to be a good person by simply respecting others and life in general. Life has a limit; what is so hard about dealing with that? You need to think of yourself as immortal to be a better person? I've seen far more evidence of those using religion as a basis for the take, take, take thing or behaving badly than the other way around. Sounds like church indoctrination to believe that without the church you would succumb to your basest survival instincts to "take, take, take" rather than cooperate rationally with others and share and respect.
are you going to whine about the "Is 'Family Guy' back on the air? OT" post and all the other non biking posts as well? its an interesting subject when people can discuss it without slamming each other for the other ones beliefs.rpet said:
the universe thing was a philosophical question not a theological one. i don't know where my God originated. i wonder about it just like i wonder where the end of the universe is.Bikinfoolferlife said:
that tells me what you do not what drives you to do it.Bikinfoolferlife said:
no, it was a question not a challange. i question if i would try to be a better person if eternity were not at stake. or would i say screw you all and do whatever it would take to get whatever i wanted.Bikinfoolferlife said:
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I think you are confused about morals and religion. One does not need the other. They are two totally seperate entities. Freud (Future to an Illusion) and Bertrand Russell are two prolific atheist writers and they both agree that there is a moral way that should be and is generally followed. Specifically Russell in "What I Believe" he says that he believes this and that one doesn't have to be religious to be a moral and overall good person. Freud is more of the person to say that we are moral because it is in civilizations best interest.dirtdonk said:
Although on the flip side of the arguement a theist would say that the morals we are living by are a product of god, even if we don't recognize him. Remember that most religions (specifically christianity) say that one doesn't need to be perfect, we just must strive toward it. And the classical burning in hell theory of damnation is about as dated and Dante Alegheri's Divine Comedy. The more common idea is that the good moral people are saved while the others are left behind. They are necessarily sentenced to be burnign in hell. (just a more up to date christian idea).
Now for burning questions i have for you. Must we say we are christian to be christian? Can i be saved by god, even if i don't recognize him? God damns me for being blind, i think not. So to say that i am damned b/c i don't go to church is about as close minded as one can be. We all seem to forget that religion is a person thing, and we don't need streams and ribbons and church ceremonies and sunday mass to be a good christian. Some of the best christians i know wouldn't step foot in a church because of all the politics that take place. Just a friendly reminder again that i am neither christian, muslim, jewish, or athiest. I haven't found myself, but i have done research to find what suits me best. That is one thing i cannot stand, people saying they are a certain religion while practicing something totally different.
I do urge this discussion to stay civil. There have been alot of generalizations and pointing of fingers thus far and no one has really made good points other than the fact that they are afraid of the others or that they used to be catholic and aren't anymore. So please, make points, don't just spout your own beliefs
**edit**sorry for the typos, i tried to fix most of them. but my fingers type slower than my mind puts it togethor and that makes for a mess sometimes.
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