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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I did this ride for the first time yesterday. I always figured it was kind of a easier ride, looking at the elevation profile on singletracks.com, even though it is longer than others in the area at 17 miles.
Well, it wore me out pretty good. I never felt like I was doing major climbing, but all the medium sized ups and downs add up.

I checked the climbing analysis on Topofusion, (using the elevations corrected by the programs digital elevation model), and it turns out to be 3600 feet of climbing, compared to the 2100 ft of the Buck Gulch/Charlies/Homestead/Strawberry ride, or 2200 ft of the 543/ Baldy/Charlies/Homestead/Sandy ride.

Surprising.

Anyway, I did the loop part counterclockwise, and that seemed like a fun way to do it, with the windy downhill part at the end. Anyone prefer the other way?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I've only ridden it the same direction as you. Really enjoyed it. It didn't feel like 3600 ft though.

My GPS batteries died at the 9.78 mark. It showed 1400' of gain and 1200' of loss at that point. You can see it here.
Buffalo Cr Colo TR to Green Mountain Loop by curtis9925 at Garmin Connect - Details

Great photos
Well, I know GPS's and topo programs are all over the place when it comes to climbing analysis (total elevation gain). It depends a lot on the distance between points used, time between, averaging of points, disregarding outlyers, disregarding elevation changes under or over x feet, etc. Topofusion gives you a bunch of options for how to calculate it. I normally use the default Topofusion calculation with the DEM (digital elevation model)values replacing my GPS altitude values. Sometimes my GPS is close to the DEM, but since my GPS's don't have barimetric altimeter, they are inherently inaccurate.
I use a Garmin Etrex Legend but lately have been using Backcountry Navigator on my droid.
The droid told me climbing for the trip was 6500, which sounds outrageous, but not unusual for GPS calculated climbing, based on what I have seen on .gpx files submitted on Singletracks.com

Anyway, whatever the actual number is, I think the comparison to the other rides I mentioned is valid, since they were all calculated in the same way, and the Green Mountain ride looks to be about 50% more climbing than those.
 

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i think i did it clockwise, it was while ago when i camped at wellington lake. there was one rather short steeper climb just before rock outcropping near the top. was fun this direction too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

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3 Legged Big Top
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Looking at my profile it shows the Scraggy TH at 7884' . Does anyone know if that is accurate?

Can you link or post your elevation profile for the ride?

My GPS had acted up in route to this ride and the battery was low for the entire time it was on so my data may be really screwed up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Looking at my profile it shows the Scraggy TH at 7884' . Does anyone know if that is accurate?

Can you link or post your elevation profile for the ride?

My GPS had acted up in route to this ride and the battery was low for the entire time it was on so my data may be really screwed up.
Looking on the Topo map, it looks like around 7840. I started on the road about a quarter mile down from the lot, so I don't have that value on my track. (Saved the 5 bucks).

The first peak in your profile shows elevation 8057. My peak shows 8045. Close.

Your second peak at 8177 compares to mine at 8100 even.

I can download my track to everytrail.com later this evening.

It's too bad Garmin connect gives you the satellite or road map options but not a topo option so you could compare your track values with the map.
 

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I ride it from the western terminus at the campground, which means I do the loop counter-clockwise. Actually, what's fun is to ride up from the ranger station, all the way to the campground. Then, from the top of GM, you can ride back down to the road, crossing the CO Trail, and get on Baldy for a big loop or Shingle/Miller for a shorter loop. Personally, I kind of like having stretches of dirt road in between to provide a little rest.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Some more information on Climbing analysis. Topofusion shows the following options (different ways of calculating climbing:

Topofusion =3606 (throws out gains that occurred when GPS is not moving (noise))
Maptech = 1499 (disregards gains of less than 10 meters)
TopoUSA = 3704 (subdivides track into 20 M segments for better capture of small changes)
Training Center = 2481 (Uses a box filter set at 5 to smooth the data which eliminates small changes that are usually noise or GPS innacuracy)

I also loaded the track onto everytrail.com, which calculates the climbing at 3051.

So what is right? I think the important thing is that you are consistent with your climbing calculation, and understand you can't compare data from different tracks that were calculated with different programs.

But different climbing calculations can also give you a different result of the relative differences between 2 trails. For example:

Using Topofusion:
Buck gulch = 2119
Green Mountain = 3606

So, Green Mountain has 70% more climbing than Buck Gulch.

Using Training Center
Buck Gulch = 1854
Green Mountain = 2481

In this case, Green Mountain has 34% more climbing than Buck Gulch

Using Everytrail
Buck Gulch = 2047
Green Mountain = 3051

So, Green Mountain has 49% more climbing than Buck Gulch. ????

I should have put this in the GPS forum.
 

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GPS units are notoriously bad at determining elevation, even higher quality ones. You have to get survey/GIS quality units to get really accurate elevation information.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
GPS units are notoriously bad at determining elevation, even higher quality ones. You have to get survey/GIS quality units to get really accurate elevation information.
Well, some GPS's have a barometric altimeter, which are supposed to be very accurate, but I assume you need to calibrate them.
For my data, I used Topofusion to substitute the GPS elevations with the Digital Elevation Model (DEM).

I think that this means it basically looks at the location of each track point and assigns an elevation value it takes off an electronic topo map.

DEM values aren't perfect either, because if the location is off the elevation is off. this is especially true in steep terrain, where the elevation changes quickly if you move a short distance from your actual point.

For me, my GPS's don't have barometric altimeters. When I do an out an back ride for example, the elevation profile should look symetrical out and back, but it doesn't. Sometimes the starting and ending elevations are different on a ride, even if they start and end at the same place. Using the DEM fixes this, and makes the profile symetrical as it should be.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Your first link shows that the out and the back look very close to the same which is a good sign. the high point of the trail on that track is shown as 8098, only 6 feet off of my DEM value of 8104. Elevation correction is turned off on the web page, so apparantly the Garmin 800 values from the barometric altimeter were used and appear very accurate.
the Elevation gain = 2243 (2263 loss) is a lower value even than the training center value estimated by Topofusion. It must just be another variation of how to calculate the total climb.

The second link also shows the high point of the climb to be 8104, the same as my DEM value.

Are you able to check your elevation loss? I usually feel pretty good about data if both gain and loss are similar when starting and ending at the same spot
When the DEM values are used, the gain and loss are almost always identical, which they are in this case.
 

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My fav BC ride is shinglemill-CT-GreenMtn(clockwise)-*******-Gashouse-Charlies-Sandy. The CT kills me more than anything with the constant up and down. I almost always contemplate ending the ride early at that point, but love the climb up ******* so much.

Will have to try GM counterclockwise next time.
 

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3 Legged Big Top
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Heres another that belongs to a friend. He changed the elevation numbers so dont pay attention to those. He intially had a number that didn't look right.
When you look at the elevation profile image you can see a sharp gain thats just not possible(at least for us). That spike was the difference between what should have been normal. We figured that once we started moving his gps locked down a better position and recorded an instant 500' gain.

Rampart Reservoir by bkerk3 at Garmin Connect - Details
 

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There are only 3 ways to quantify the amount of climbing during a ride:

None.
A bunch.
A $hitload.

There are no other quantities of climbing.
Bah! I say the MM trails have "some" climbing. The climb out of the MM parking lot is kind of steep. Then you have the climbing to get to the top of MM. There's a little bit of climbing up Flatirons View, and there is some on Springbrook. Personally, I won't ride up Dowdy because that's just too much climbing, but I'm happy to ride down it.
 

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Bah! I say the MM trails have "some" climbing. The climb out of the MM parking lot is kind of steep. Then you have the climbing to get to the top of MM. There's a little bit of climbing up Flatirons View, and there is some on Springbrook. Personally, I won't ride up Dowdy because that's just too much climbing, but I'm happy to ride down it.
That would be "None"
 
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