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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I been riding a trail I built behind my house in the woods and I've got a bike,technique question.
I have a nice straight section that has a turn that goes to the right.Not quite a switchback but close.I can come down the straight flying on my fs bike give it a little brake and lean into it and up the turn I go.If I come down the same trail with my old rigid mtb I give it a little brake,lean into,then the front wheel goes berserk and down I go.
The trail is hard packed dirt.I have a Continental slash 2.1 on the front of the fs and a Hutchinson python on the front of the rigid.It doesn't feel like i lose traction though.Is it me?the rigid?the tire?
It's really bugging me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I haven't tried it on my hardtail yet.I'm really new to the tech trail riding and I'm wanting to improve.It's not easy to explain but I am consistent with my technique.When I make the turn on the fs I can feel the the bike take the energy in it's suspension.Is riding the rigid with the same approach as riding the fs what is making me crash?
 

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You're comparing two rather different tires, youve got a fast xc tire (ideal in dry conditions if i remember right) with a slightly more agressive tire suited better to wetter riding.
That might make an awful lot of difference to start off with.

You could always try running the Slash on the front of the hardtail and see'ing how that works out.
Different tires work best in different conditions - some are better suited to leaning hard into turns, some are better not leaned so much, etc.


Theres lots of things that can cause the problem you're having - it can be technique, it can be tires, it can be handling traits (stem-too-short/bars-too-narrow for the bike give twitchier handling, which in some situations may make things more difficult than they need to be).

Trying the hardtail with the tire you're having success with would be a good first step in determining where your problems are coming from - you might still have problems, but atleast then you've got more things constant and it leaves one less possible cause and youre closer to finding your answer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
EnglishT said:
You're comparing two rather different tires, youve got a fast xc tire (ideal in dry conditions if i remember right) with a slightly more agressive tire suited better to wetter riding.
That might make an awful lot of difference to start off with.

You could always try running the Slash on the front of the hardtail and see'ing how that works out.
Different tires work best in different conditions - some are better suited to leaning hard into turns, some are better not leaned so much, etc.

Theres lots of things that can cause the problem you're having - it can be technique, it can be tires, it can be handling traits (stem-too-short/bars-too-narrow for the bike give twitchier handling, which in some situations may make things more difficult than they need to be).

Trying the hardtail with the tire you're having success with would be a good first step in determining where your problems are coming from - you might still have problems, but atleast then you've got more things constant and it leaves one less possible cause and youre closer to finding your answer.
I'm sorry if I confused you but,I can accomplish the turn with the FS and the slash.I cannot do it as fast with the rigid(no frnt or rear suspension)and the python..I haven't tried it on the hardtail yet.
After I posted this I switched the wheels,and tried both bikes again.With the FS and the python I can do it,with the rigid and slash I cannot.I think it was even worse with the more aggressive tire.I did notice that I sit further back on the rigid and the steering is touchy.I don't plan on riding the rigid much at all but it still bugs me that I cannot make the turn fast.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
ChrisStenger said:
I had issues under braking in turns with my Hutchinson front tire. Switched to Fire XC's and it made a world of difference
I haven't tried the fire xc yet.I've read a lot of good things about them.I never did like that python tire,I ended up replacing it.The rigid it's where all my old parts end up.It's the bike I lend out to people when they want to go ride.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
gmcttr said:
If your position on the rigid is farther back, you may need to weight the front tire more in the turn.
I need to spend some time riding with more experienced riders.It's a shame there really isn't many in my area.(that I've met)A bunch of road cyclist though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Razorfish said:
I take the corner at 80 when it's dry with no problem, but if I take the corner at 80 when it's wet I crash. What's the problem?
I don't get what you are asking.or are you being a tool?

Anyhow,
been outside trying different positions on the bike and I've gotten better at it.Just wanted to learn what I was doing wrong.I wasn't blessed enough to have that natural pro level talent some people posses.
 

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sounds to me like you need to make the rigid a commuter .

and you must have not met razorfish yet... hehe he means well ,but he likes to crack a joke here and there.

get some slicks and ride roadie on the rigid and jamm the other two on the dirt,is my advice.im a poor dood so my hardtail is my roadie,x/c,trail/am,freeride/dh do it all rig:thumbsup: (dont have a choice) so make the ht light and your fs heavy and roll on:thumbsup:
 

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It sounds like the FS is following the trail contour better which gives you more traction to make the corner. Depending on how bumpy it is, it may be a simple fact that the FS can make the corner faster than the rigid. The only thing you really can do is soften up your arms and legs while putting a little more weight on the front tire. I think that eventually you will develop the skills to get through it, which will also make you faster on the FS.
 

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To really answer this we need a better explanation of the crash. "Goes Berzerk" is rather useless. My front wheel is almost always doing something frigen wierd as crap, you get use to it. If your wheel is turning in your hands and thus caves in and you fall that is one thing. However if your wheel is doing what you want, then slides out, thats another thing.

If it bounces, and then when it hits ground it goes down.. etc etc.

Anyways, try taking it slower. Good luck
 

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Like has been said, and like razorfish was joking about, all your bikes are different. It is very possible that 2 bikes with different geometries and different uses will not be able to take the same turn at the same speed, even when piloted by a pro rider.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
"To really answer this we need a better explanation of the crash. "Goes Berzerk" is rather useless. My front wheel is almost always doing something frigen wierd as crap, you get use to it. If your wheel is turning in your hands and thus caves in and you fall that is one thing."

sorry,I'm not very descriptive am I?You nailed it though.I'm not sliding from lose of traction,at first.It feels like the front starts to wobble and then it slides out of control.
 

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try to push the front end into the turn and get more weight over the front wheel. Don't go so overboard that you loose all traction in the rear, but I would rather have a firm feel in the front end and let the rear wheel slide a little bit. Since you're on a rigid, you don't have the benefit of the fork pushing the wheel into every dip in the the trail. It'll take a different technique or different speed than the FS.

You say your new to tech trail riding? How new to riding in general? I'm jealous of a new rider having 3 bikes already.
 

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How wide are your bars? The wider the bars the more leverage you have for steering and controlling the front wheel. I notice a huge difference using a 23" bar instead of my 28" bar in how easily my front wheel is deflected my rocks

Another thought: what is the model and how old is your rigid bike? Many older bikes have steeper head angles that are twitchier and less stable at speed over rough terrain
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
emtnate said:
try to push the front end into the turn and get more weight over the front wheel. Don't go so overboard that you loose all traction in the rear, but I would rather have a firm feel in the front end and let the rear wheel slide a little bit. Since you're on a rigid, you don't have the benefit of the fork pushing the wheel into every dip in the the trail. It'll take a different technique or different speed than the FS.

You say your new to tech trail riding? How new to riding in general? I'm jealous of a new rider having 3 bikes already.
Was out till it got dark trying a few different positions on the bike and taking a different line.seems to help.

Razorfish's sarcasm doesn't bother me none.I have read alot of threads here,sarcasm is abundant

I've been riding consistent about 4-5 years now.off and on for 20years.LOL,don't be jealous the bikes I have aren't nothing special.The rigid was my first mtb.It's a Iron horse AT20.it's a old one 95 I think.I've been throwing ebay parts at it for years.Been a good bike.I'm sentimental so I keep it.
I have a 2 FS bikes one is a old Mongoose D60R.My first suspension mtb.It also has been treated to some ebay buys.New wheelset,fork,rear shock,everything just about.
My other FS is a Kona dawg but it's not complete.I'm gonna build it but right now I don't have no skills,so it can wait.
My HT is a Motobecane 700HT I ride it all the time.
My wife's is a kons lisa xc

I would of sold the Iron horse and d60 long ago if I could of made enough to put the kona together.

Thanks for the help,I think it's probably the bike design as someone else has stated.I'm gonna keep at it.
 

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There is a ton of different physics going on here between the two bikes. When you lean into a turn on a FS bike, the suspension is compressing some stretching the wheel base out a bit. With the HT, it's not doing that, it's remaining constant for the most part. That's the most noticeable difference, but there are of course many many other physics factors here.

You will always notice changes in cornering abilities with bikes when you jump platforms. Different suspension set ups require different techniques. When I rode my DH sled I could corner in a very different manner than I could on a XC bike. You just need to learn to adjust between the two.
 
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