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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
1. Constant clicking/grinding from chain on cassette in every gear after install of new derailleur but doesn't skip or autoshift. Shifting from small to big is good otherwise. Is this a barrel adjustment? (Also installed new chain and cassette.)

2. New Shadow XT doesn't have barrel adjuster at derailleur. Barrel adjuster on shifter is broken. Options?

3. Crank bearings bind/drag when I tighten crank bolt on RF Deus crank. Why?

4. Running two ring set up but can't get the chain to not rub on front derailleur. Either it rubs on the inside of the cage when in the first three cogs when in the middle ring with it adjusted so that the chain is close but not touching the inside of the derailleur cage when in small chain ring/large cog combo....or it rubs on the outside of the cage when in the four smallest cogs. Can't seem to find a cable tension that doesn't rub either place.

I think that's it for now.

Thanks.
 

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Old man on a bike
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1. Constant clicking/grinding from chain on cassette in every gear after install of new derailleur but doesn't skip or autoshift. Shifting from small to big is good otherwise. Is this a barrel adjustment? (Also installed new chain and cassette.)

Stiff link from the chain install? Analyze by watching the pulleys as you backpedal, looking for a hop. Burr on a cog? Otherwise reading further, it just may only be a barrel adjustment.

2. New Shadow XT doesn't have barrel adjuster at derailleur. Barrel adjuster on shifter is broken. Options?

Ouch, careful cable adjustment? New shifters? Repair of old shifter barrel adjuster?

3. Crank bearings bind/drag when I tighten crank bolt on RF Deus crank. Why?


No experience, you sure you're following procedure from the manual?

4. Running two ring set up but can't get the chain to not rub on front derailleur. Either it rubs on the inside of the cage when in the first three cogs when in the middle ring with it adjusted so that the chain is close but not touching the inside of the derailleur cage when in small chain ring/large cog combo....or it rubs on the outside of the cage when in the four smallest cogs. Can't seem to find a cable tension that doesn't rub either place.


Did you adjust your chainline to run two rings? Did you try repositioning your derailleur?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Is it possible to just replace the barrel adjuster on the XT triggers? I have one from an old LX eight speed shifter but I can't see how to remove it. It doesn't seem to just screw out.

On the clicking, I wondered about the chain. I've had one do that when I installed a new shimano chain but didn't get the connector pin pushed in far enough. It doesn't seem to be that. It does it on every stroke and is only noticeable when under a bit of a load. It doesn't do it hardly at all on the stand or when back pedaling. It does it in every gear so don't think it's a bent cog or a spur on a cog but I'll check for that.

I'll have to review the install instructions on the Deus crank. It's been on and off several times with install of a chain guide and trying different ones and it's pretty straightforward. Maybe that messed up/bent washer/bushing on the drive side is causing the problem.

The Chain guide is a Heim so is very thin and doesn't upset the chainline much at all. I have repositioned the derailleur by pulling more cabe through and slackening it. Is that what you mean. Or do you mean moving it on the seat post? I haven't messed with that at all.

Oh, here's the other question I had but maybe it's more for the wheels and tires forum. The freehub goes buzz BUZZ buzz BUZZ buzz Buzz instead of just buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Is it getting ready to go south?
 

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Old man on a bike
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Is it possible to just replace the barrel adjuster on the XT triggers? I have one from an old LX eight speed shifter but I can't see how to remove it. It doesn't seem to just screw out.

I'm not sure which XT triggers you've got, but I've got a variety of XT and XTR stuff and off the top of my head I'm pretty sure the adjusting inserts for both derailleur and brake cabless are replaceable (but then I don't know what's broken on yours and I didn't go look at my stuff).

On the clicking, I wondered about the chain. I've had one do that when I installed a new shimano chain but didn't get the connector pin pushed in far enough. It doesn't seem to be that. It does it on every stroke and is only noticeable when under a bit of a load. It doesn't do it hardly at all on the stand or when back pedaling. It does it in every gear so don't think it's a bent cog or a spur on a cog but I'll check for that.

You mean it happens at the same point in your pedal stroke each time around? That would point towards your crank/bb/pedal. If it does it in every gear combo especially.

I'll have to review the install instructions on the Deus crank. It's been on and off several times with install of a chain guide and trying different ones and it's pretty straightforward. Maybe that messed up/bent washer/bushing on the drive side is causing the problem.

Maybe that messed up/bent washer/bushing might have something to do with it.

The Chain guide is a Heim so is very thin and doesn't upset the chainline much at all. I have repositioned the derailleur by pulling more cabe through and slackening it. Is that what you mean. Or do you mean moving it on the seat post? I haven't messed with that at all.

By adjusting the chainline, I meant that when you changed from 3 chainrings to 2 (I assume) whether or not you moved the chainrings out, the Heim counts a bit depending on your crank setup. What is your crank setup?

By repositioning the derailleur I did mean by changing it's height on the seat tube. How did you set up the derailleur for 2 rings? Aside from cable tension, what about the limit screw?

Oh, here's the other question I had but maybe it's more for the wheels and tires forum. The freehub goes buzz BUZZ buzz BUZZ buzz Buzz instead of just buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Is it getting ready to go south?

Some freehubs make that sound when completely happy, what hub do you have?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the responses BF. I know it's hard to diagnose a problem over the internet but I really appreciate your insight.

I may not have described the sound very well but it is definitely a chain on cogs rattle. When easy spinning that sound is a constant, quarter-way-between-gears sound. Then when I'm applying some force on the cranks when climbing, another grinding/binding sound starts up as well on every power stroke (left and right)...kinda like the sound your chain makes when it is too tight or super dry.

On the XT trigger that is broken the barrel shaft is sheared clean through right where it enters the shifter. The barrell turns but nothing happens inside. I'll see if I can disassemble the old LX trigger and get the barrel adjuster out.

When I went from three ring to two ring I did not move the chain rings out except for what the Heim chain guide did (1 mm). What would adjusting the derailleur down on the seat post do? I don't think there's a lot of room to move it down much.

After rereading the RF installation instructions I'm obviously not bottoming out the drive side crank bolt before it starts to bind. Another spacer on drive side? and replace the bushing/washer thing of course.

My hub is a Hugi FR and it didn't used to do that.... that's why I was wondering.
 

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KRob said:
On the XT trigger that is broken the barrel shaft is sheared clean through right where it enters the shifter. The barrell turns but nothing happens inside. I'll see if I can disassemble the old LX trigger and get the barrel adjuster out.
Try an inline barrel adjuster like the ones that come on some road bikes. I can send you one if you would like to give it a whirl.

KRob said:
When I went from three ring to two ring I did not move the chain rings out except for what the Heim chain guide did (1 mm). What would adjusting the derailleur down on the seat post do? I don't think there's a lot of room to move it down much.
The derailleur must be approximately 95mm high (from the edge of the outer cage to the center of the crank BB spindle) to function properly. Check that out first. If you didn't move it, though, it should be fine. Front derailleur adjustment on MTBs is a tricky thing... it might take you a few tries to get it dialed. Typically, I find that if you give enough cable tension to make a very snappy shift from small ring to large, the chain will drag when in the 32/32 combo. Try backing off the derailleur cable tension until it just barely shifts into the bigger ring. This should fix the rubbing in your large ring combos. Your small ring/small cog combos may still be problematic. If you are still having troubles, seek a Front Derailleur Ninja. It's one of the few components left on a bike that can still require some "magic" to adjust properly.

JMH
 

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Old man on a bike
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Thanks for the responses BF. I know it's hard to diagnose a problem over the internet but I really appreciate your insight.

Glad to try and help, just consider the source :rolleyes:

I may not have described the sound very well but it is definitely a chain on cogs rattle. When easy spinning that sound is a constant, quarter-way-between-gears sound. Then when I'm applying some force on the cranks when climbing, another grinding/binding sound starts up as well on every power stroke (left and right)...kinda like the sound your chain makes when it is too tight or super dry.

I'm thinking that when you have some way of fine tuning your cable tension with a functioning barrel adjuster or an inline adjuster like JMH is talking about, you'll solve that issue.

On the XT trigger that is broken the barrel shaft is sheared clean through right where it enters the shifter. The barrell turns but nothing happens inside. I'll see if I can disassemble the old LX trigger and get the barrel adjuster out.

That might be a solution, too.

When I went from three ring to two ring I did not move the chain rings out except for what the Heim chain guide did (1 mm). What would adjusting the derailleur down on the seat post do? I don't think there's a lot of room to move it down much.

Moving the chainrings out a bit would improve your chainline in most cases and give you better shifting. Likewise moving and readjusting the front derailleur for the new "big" ring.
Try this for an adjusting procedure http://parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=75

After rereading the RF installation instructions I'm obviously not bottoming out the drive side crank bolt before it starts to bind. Another spacer on drive side? and replace the bushing/washer thing of course.

I haven't used a RF crank, but that sounds like something I've read before as part of the procedure. Another spacer on the drive side would push the chainrings out a bit, but make sure that won't cause any issues on it's own, I'm just not sure with those cranks.

My hub is a Hugi FR and it didn't used to do that.... that's why I was wondering.

Is that the same as a 440 Freeride hub? I think that still uses the DT/Hugi star ratchet system and if so those hubs pull apart fairly easily for you to check and lube. The variation in sound might be an indicator of needing some lube. The dtswiss.com site has manuals so you can check out your hub innards...
 

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KRob said:
I may not have described the sound very well but it is definitely a chain on cogs rattle. When easy spinning that sound is a constant, quarter-way-between-gears sound. Then when I'm applying some force on the cranks when climbing, another grinding/binding sound starts up as well on every power stroke (left and right)...kinda like the sound your chain makes when it is too tight or super dry.
Is the chain routed correctly around the derailleur pulleys?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
gmcttr said:
Is the chain routed correctly around the derailleur pulleys?
Hmm. There's a thought. I think it is but I did have a question about which side of the little plate between pulleys the chain is supposed to go. The side I chose (behind) seemed to make the most sense but I haven't looked at that as a solution to the current noise.

I'll check that out. Thanks.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I'm going to do some more fiddling tomorrow and I'll get back to you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Ok. I got a new barrel adjuster from the local bike shop and put it on and everything shifts perfect ....... except I still have that cotton pickin' noise. I got the cable all retentioned and then rode it with the new barrel adjuster. I turned it several clicks (one or two at a time) in either direction until shifting started to be affected and the chain started to skip or climb up onto the next cog and the noise did not change.:madman: Maybe it's just the Shadow finickiness everyone talks about.

The chain is routed correctly through the derailleur. (In front of the top jocky wheel, behind that little plate in between the two sides of the cage and then behind the bottom jockey wheel..... right?) It doesn't drag on anything in the cage.

Could a slightly tweaked derailleur hanger cause this type of noise?

I'm starting to wonder if this is a bb sound afterall like BF suggested. It didn't appear until I put the new chain, cassette, and rear derailleur on though. Hmm. When the chain is off, the cranks spin free and quiet with no load. I can't feel any side to side play when I line the crank up with the down tube and try and pull/squeeze the two together.

BTW. This is an XT octalink bb and crank on this bike. The BB is 6.5 years old but has always been ridden in a dry climate and has never been subjected to pressure washes. (The RF Deus crank issue I asked about is on a different bike. I should've mentioned that to begin with.)

The funny BUZZ, buzz, buzz, BUZZ, buzz, buzz hub sound is also on this other bike with the RF Deus crank.... not the one with the new derailleur noise. I'll check the lubrication on the rear hub (I believe the Hugi FR is an older model of the DTSwiss 440FR). That makes sense. I recently had it apart to install a 10mm through bolt conversion kit and the free hub body does slip right off. I pulled it out aways but was afraid to pull it clear off for fear that gears and springs would fly everywhere.

Any additional thoughts would be geatly appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ok, I got a new theory. What do you think?

When I replaced the old LX cassette it was a bit locked onto the freehub body and when I finally got it off I found that the splines on the freehub body where notched by the steel LX cassette.

The new XT cassette slipped on OK but maybe a bit sticky. My bike-mechanic brother thinks the sound may have to do with the new cassette on notched freehub body not lining up perfectly well. Possible?
 

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Take that out of the equation by filing the freehub body notches down. Apply grease on the freehub body before reinstalling the cassette, make sure you're using proper torque on the cassette lockring, too. A bike-mechanic brother that won't come over and help? Or one that lives too far away?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Bikinfoolferlife said:
Take that out of the equation by filing the freehub body notches down. Apply grease on the freehub body before reinstalling the cassette, make sure you're using proper torque on the cassette lockring, too. A bike-mechanic brother that won't come over and help? Or one that lives too far away?
Yeah, he lives across the country but was out briefly for the fourth of July. He rode it and agreed that it didn't sound like a derailleur adjustment problem or a BB noise. We didn't have time to really dig into it because I had like 30 people at my house BBQing and doing the family thing and I didn't want to impose (or get chewed out by our wives after we disappeared for two hours into the garage:D ).

I have another wheel I could throw on there but I'll have to change the tire and readjust the brakes so it'll be kind of a hassle. I'll try deburring and lubing the freehub body splines first.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Bikinfoolferlife said:
Changing to another wheel might be interesting...aren't noises fun?
Voila'!!! We have success. I switched my wheel over from my other bike and the noise went away. So I worked on the notches on the freehub body with a file and lubed it up with some bearing grease and it's better but still has some grind on power strokes. Do I dare file more on the freehub body or do I risk ruining it all together?

I think a new freehub body is like $100 from American Classic. D'Oh. I knew about the problem with the steel LX cassette on this hub from a previous post but delayed changing it out while I waited to find a good sale price on an XT.
 

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Congrats. Just file the notches down to the level of the freehub body splines so they don't stick up above the splines, you shouldn't need to worry about removing that material. My XT does the same thing to my aluminum freehub bodies (on Kings), and any cassette that isn't completely on a carrier will have loose cogs that will do that, but the only thing it does is sometimes make the loose cogs on the cassette harder to remove without an occasional filing down. Make sure your quick release isn't contributing to the noise, too (at the moment am too lazy to see if you already mentioned your having done that).
 
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