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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm looking maybe get a new HT frame to swap parts over. Always wanted a carbon HT with a lifetime warranty. Parts will be moved from another hardtail of mine(Nukeproof Scout 290). Overall, it'll be a a pretty burly 29er build. All-round trail riding. Basically my everyday/daily bike. It'll probably tip the scales at around 28-ish lbs(my Scout now weighs 29.5).

It would have:
11S Shimano XT Drivetrain
XT M8000 Brakes
eThirteen 11S 9-46 Cassette
DT Swiss E1700 Wheelset 29er
WTB Ranger 2.4 F/R
Bikeyoke Revive Dropper

Now fork choice is going to be a 140mm Fox 36 Factory. The Scout had a 130mm fork specced to it. I up-forked it to 140mm with little to no negative repercussions. Fox doesn't sell a 130mm air spring for the 36. As I understand, the Chameleon comes with a 120mm fork for the 29er version. I'm not looking to go 27.5. At all. I have parts, and I'm trying minimize excess cost. And I'm also not even entertaining the idea of getting a new fork. I'm usually in the camp of 'never go more than a 10mm increase in fork travel.'

Would it be wise to up-fork the new Chameleon to 140mm with 29er wheels? I don't want to drastically alter the geometry and give it wonky handling characteristics.

Also, does the carbon Chameleon have the internal routing 'tubes' or 'guides' to aid in cable routing?

Thanks.
 

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What size frame will you be getting? A somewhat common “complaint” with the L and XL Chameleon is the low stack height, which a longer fork will help with. It will still slacken the STA and put you further over the back wheel, but you can also increase your chainstay length via the adjustable dropouts to help in that regard. You could also set your fork up with increased sag to help preserve geometry as well.

For reference, I run a 130mm fork on my L size 27.5+ alloy Chameleon and I don’t think I’d have a problem taking it to 150mm from a geo perspective, which would be similar to 29” / 140mm. I can’t answer your question regarding internal routing on the C frame.

Good choice on the Revive btw, they are such a nice dropper.
 

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SC says 140 mm is fine. I am currently running an aluminum frame with a 140 mm fox 34, 29er dropouts fully forward and 27.5+ wheels. So the angles should be similar to what you are looking at though my bb is a bit lower then yours will be. It rides great, reach gets a little shorter so account for that in sizing. Seat tube gets a little slacker but my seat isn't slammed forward.

You could get a 130mm fox 36 air sleeve and run the 27.5+ droputs which would bring it back to stock angles but with a 10mm higher bottom bracket but i suspect you wont' feel the need.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
What size frame will you be getting? A somewhat common "complaint" with the L and XL Chameleon is the low stack height, which a longer fork will help with. It will still slacken the STA and put you further over the back wheel, but you can also increase your chainstay length via the adjustable dropouts to help in that regard. You could also set your fork up with increased sag to help preserve geometry as well.

For reference, I run a 130mm fork on my L size 27.5+ alloy Chameleon and I don't think I'd have a problem taking it to 150mm from a geo perspective, which would be similar to 29" / 140mm. I can't answer your question regarding internal routing on the C frame.

Good choice on the Revive btw, they are such a nice dropper.
Thanks for the info!

I'd be be getting a Medium. 40mm stem, 20mm rise bars. And since the chainstay length is adjustable, I'd probably leave it maxed out at 430(the Scout has a 440 CS) so I don't have to cut links from my new chain. The Scout has a pretty high stack... about 640 or so with my rudimentary measurement abilities. But the Scout also has a super low 305-ish BB. If my calculations are correct, putting a 140mm fork and 29 inch wheels on the Chameleon will raise the stack to 630-ish, and the BB to 325-ish. The Scout's WB is also 35mm longer then the Chameleon.

With this information, I can safely assume that the Chameleon will offer a better climbing position due to the lower stack, and significantly more nimble handling than the Scout because of the shorter CS and WB and higher BB.

Should be a helluva fun bike!
 

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SS Pusher Man
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I don't know about the carbon Chameleon, but I have been riding an Al Chameleon for a year now. Started off with 130mm Revelation 32, bumped it up to 140mm, and recently replaced it with a 140mm Pike.

I have run mine exclusively as a SS since day one, with the 29 dropouts. I haven't had an ill effects running a fork that long climbing. Don't find that it kicks the STA back much....at least not enough to make a noticable difference.

I tend to run my dropouts as short as possible, but my gearing choice puts them out about 25%.

Santa Cruz says:

"What size fork should I use?
Our recommended setup is 120mm for 29er and 130mm for 27+ bikes. This makes for similar angles and BB height between wheel sizes. Feel free to mix-and-match or put longer on there if you wish. We'd suggest a max travel of 140mm for optimal handling"

Great bike....just ordered a Al Lizard for my wife.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the insight! I'm getting closer and closer to pulling the trigger!

Buuuut Competitive is out of stock until October in Medium. I'd buy local, but I hate paying sales tax. Plus chances are, they don't have that frame in stock anyway. And would need to place an order that would also probably arrive in October.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Competitive Cyclist charges sales tax.
Not to me they don't. I live in Missouri. Sales tax is normally charged online if you're in the same state that the online retailer has a presence in. However, specific states WILL charge sales tax on online purchases for big, big online stores. I'm sure the state has a list of which sites they charge tax on. Amazon comes to mind. Amazon charges me state sales tax only, but not local. Competitive Cyclist's presence isn't large enough for Missouri to charge sales tax on their orders. So I'm spared from it. Tax laws are weird and convoluted, but I do what I can to avoid paying more than I have to. Some states charge sales tax on all online purchases. Some do not at all. And some states only charge sales tax on some online retailers.

Sorry your state charges sales tax on your orders from Competitive :D.
 

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Also, does the carbon Chameleon have the internal routing 'tubes' or 'guides' to aid in cable routing?

Thanks.
No it has not tubes.
I had to do some work on the removable ports in/out of the frame so they did't clamp the cables. Not certain this goes for all, i have not heard or read of any other that had to do this... might be me ?

It's an amazing bike, really fun and solid build frame.
I have the SC34 fork on it now, but is tempted to go 140mm, as you are.
 

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Not to me they don't. I live in Missouri. Sales tax is normally charged online if you're in the same state that the online retailer has a presence in. However, specific states WILL charge sales tax on online purchases for big, big online stores. I'm sure the state has a list of which sites they charge tax on. Amazon comes to mind. Amazon charges me state sales tax only, but not local. Competitive Cyclist's presence isn't large enough for Missouri to charge sales tax on their orders. So I'm spared from it. Tax laws are weird and convoluted, but I do what I can to avoid paying more than I have to. Some states charge sales tax on all online purchases. Some do not at all. And some states only charge sales tax on some online retailers.

Sorry your state charges sales tax on your orders from Competitive :D.
Interesting, I'm in New York and in 2017 when I was shopping for my SC 5010, Competitive Cyclist quoted me a price requiring sales tax. I ended up buying from Colorado Cyclist tax free. Tax laws are crazy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Interesting, I'm in New York and in 2017 when I was shopping for my SC 5010, Competitive Cyclist quoted me a price requiring sales tax. I ended up buying from Colorado Cyclist tax free. Tax laws are crazy.
Now that I think about it, Competitive and Back Country are one and the same. And they have a huge presence nationwide, especially when it comes to warehouses and distribution centers.

Here's a list of what states they charge sales tax to:

Help Center Home

41 states.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
No it has not tubes.
I had to do some work on the removable ports in/out of the frame so they did't clamp the cables. Not certain this goes for all, i have not heard or read of any other that had to do this... might be me ?

It's an amazing bike, really fun and solid build frame.
I have the SC34 fork on it now, but is tempted to go 140mm, as you are.
I wish SC would have just used external routing for the rear brake and shifter cable. I hate fishing out cables. But I probably should just buy the overpriced internal routing tool instead of cursing at myself for not having it when fishing cables through my own frames.
 

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SS Pusher Man
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I wish SC would have just used external routing for the rear brake and shifter cable. I hate fishing out cables. But I probably should just buy the overpriced internal routing tool instead of cursing at myself for not having it when fishing cables through my own frames.
The internal routing is not an issue....take your time, don't just jam it in there.
 

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... But I probably should just buy the overpriced internal routing tool instead of cursing at myself for not having it when fishing cables through my own frames.
Usually it's not needed. New frames almost always come with routed cable liner or strings that are used to guide the installation of the actual hoses and cables. And, when it's time to replace a hose or cable, the existing one can almost always be used to guide the replacement.

That said, there were times when I did something boneheaded or something came up where having the Park internal routing set came in very handy.

I build my TB3, which does have internal hard guide tubes and of course it was super easy to run the cables ...even easier to run the brake hose which is external. Personally, I'd rather not have the internal guide tubes, and external routing would be fine as well, especially if the brake hose is external anyway.
 

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The sram reverb STEALTH BARB CONNECTOR is a great, cheaper tool that you can use to thread two ends of housing together and maybe save a few swears. The park tool ones are nice if you have them at a shop, but most of us probably had a reverb once and should have that tool if you come across it. (Competitive cyclist has it for $4).
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Can anyone confirm that the dropper post cable is routed through the down tube and up the seat tube? I'm looking at pictures and it appears that the dropper cable is routed through the top tube by the way it enters the frame.
 

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Can anyone confirm that the dropper post cable is routed through the down tube and up the seat tube? I'm looking at pictures and it appears that the dropper cable is routed through the top tube by the way it enters the frame.
That is corect.
Remove the down tube protector for easier access to rout the cable housing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
So I'm looking through SC's small part selection and I noticed 2 sets of drop out kits for the Chameleon V7. One is higher priced and has an IS brake mount and the less expensive version is post mount. Besides pricing and brake mount configuration, does anyone know what the difference is between these? Can I use both DO kits interchangeably on the Carbon frame? SC doesn't have any descriptions for these. Links below:

https://shop.santacruzbicycles.com/...ropout-kit-chameleon-7-0-29-142mm-geared.html

https://shop.santacruzbicycles.com/parts-and-tools/by-model/do-kit-swing-148-pm-29.html

I'd like to know which is the 'correct' version to purchase if the time ever comes.

Also, the 29er and 27.5+ frames are identical, correct? The only difference being the DO kit that comes with them? The medium 29er frame has an indefinite waiting period, while the 27.5+ frame is in stock. I was wondering if I could just purchase the 27.5+ frame, and swap the 29er drop outs in.
 

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SS Pusher Man
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So I'm looking through SC's small part selection and I noticed 2 sets of drop out kits for the Chameleon V7. One is higher priced and has an IS brake mount and the less expensive version is post mount. Besides pricing and brake mount configuration, does anyone know what the difference is between these? Can I use both DO kits interchangeably on the Carbon frame? SC doesn't have any descriptions for these. Links below:

https://shop.santacruzbicycles.com/...ropout-kit-chameleon-7-0-29-142mm-geared.html

https://shop.santacruzbicycles.com/parts-and-tools/by-model/do-kit-swing-148-pm-29.html

I'd like to know which is the 'correct' version to purchase if the time ever comes.

Also, the 29er and 27.5+ frames are identical, correct? The only difference being the DO kit that comes with them? The medium 29er frame has an indefinite waiting period, while the 27.5+ frame is in stock. I was wondering if I could just purchase the 27.5+ frame, and swap the 29er drop outs in.
Get which ever dropouts you want.....IS or PM, that is up to you.

The frame is identical. You can run 29er wheel on 27.5+ dropout or vice versa....not sure how much if any, MOST people will be able to tell the difference.

The only dropouts that are different are the 142 SS dropouts.....these do not have derailleur hanger on them. All the 148 dropouts have hangers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks for the clarification. Since I'll be running a 140mm fork with 29 wheels, maybe the geo will be better if I stick the 27.5+ dropouts on it. I'll buy the 29er DO kit just to see if I feel much difference.

Theoretically, with 27.5+ drop outs with 29er wheels and 140mm fork, geo should be closer to the same bike with 27.5+ wheels and a 140mm fork. The 29 wheels will probably give it a slightly higher BB. I'll be stretching the stays as long as they'll go and I won't be running anything larger than a 2.4 or 2.5 tire so clearance won't be an issue.
 
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