[TheRoadNotTaken]

Just got a Vitus Sentier 29, my first actual mountain bike. I'd like to upgrade the wheels, particularly the rear wheel, as I'm pushing 340lbs. I've been reading online and trying to understand what compatibility issues I need to anticipate to avoid wasting money. I'd like to upgrade the drivetrain as well from the 10sp deore as soon as I find a reasonable deal, but I haven't decided on Shimano or Sram. However, it sounds like I need to choose Shimano or Sram for the freehub of any wheel I purchase. And I may need to change the cassette from the stock Sunrace depending on the wheel, which also requires knowing at least what speed I want for the future groupset.

Basically, I just want to understand whether it's as simple as matching # of gears on the cassette with # of gears in groupset? Then maybe I could just decide how many speeds I'm likely to want someday and choose an appropriate cassette now with the wheel. Or, is it more involved than that and I have more to learn.

Thanks.

 

[resination]

The three freehub standards you're looking at are HG, XD, and Microspline. XD is SRAM specific, and allows for 12spd with 10t smallest cog. Microspline is Shimano specific, and allows for 12spd with 10t smallest cog. You currently have HG, which can do up to 12spd, but with 11t smallest cog. SRAM makes a 12spd cassette for HG, but Shimano does not.

Changing the number of gears will typically require changing the cassette, derailleur, shifter, and often times chain and chainring. While you can sometimes mix and match brands for specific items, the items usually have to be for the same number of speeds. You wouldn't use a 12spd shifter with a 10speed cassette or derailleur.

Going with XD or Microspline, you're looking at also needing to buy a full 12spd drivetrain to match the 12spd cassette you'd have to use. (I don't think anyone makes 10spd cassettes for XD or Microspline) If you want a new wheel that works with your current drivetrain, stick with HG. That will allow to use lower end SRAM SX/NX 12spd cassettes, or Shimano 11spd cassettes. 12 speeds is nice, but it's really the range that matters, IMO. 10-51t Shimano 12spd isn't that much different from 11-51t Shimano 11spd.

 

[TheRoadNotTaken]

The three freehub standards you're looking at are HG, XD, and Microspline. XD is SRAM specific, and allows for 12spd with 10t smallest cog. Microspline is Shimano specific, and allows for 12spd with 10t smallest cog. You currently have HG, which can do up to 12spd, but with 11t smallest cog. SRAM makes a 12spd cassette for HG, but Shimano does not.

Changing the number of gears will typically require changing the cassette, derailleur, shifter, and often times chain and chainring. While you can sometimes mix and match brands for specific items, the items usually have to be for the same number of speeds. You wouldn't use a 12spd shifter with a 10speed cassette or derailleur.

Going with XD or Microspline, you're looking at also needing to buy a full 12spd drivetrain to match the 12spd cassette you'd have to use. (I don't think anyone makes 10spd cassettes for XD or Microspline) If you want a new wheel that works with your current drivetrain, stick with HG. That will allow to use lower end SRAM SX/NX 12spd cassettes, or Shimano 11spd cassettes. 12 speeds is nice, but it's really the range that matters, IMO. 10-51t Shimano 12spd isn't that much different from 11-51t Shimano 11spd.

Thanks for that detailed info. It helps.

Sounds like if I want to make an investment in a decent wheel, with a XD or microspline freehub, I'll need to upgrade the cassette and groupset at the same time. I knew I'd seen 10sp, 11sp, and 12sp drivetrains around, however, didn't realize there was a dominant one, sounds like the 12sp. I had read that the Sram 12sp (NX or GX?) was pretty robust for the money, but was also looking at the SLX or XT from Shimano. It sounds like it would be a waste to spend much money on a wheel to match the stock HG setup.

It's brand new. I'll undoubtedly destroy the wheels, but hopefully not for a few weeks, time enough to search for some good deals on a 12sp setup, then choose the wheels.

Thanks again.

 

[resination]

Another option is finding a hub with and interchangeable freehub body that would allow you to use HG now, and swap to XD/Microspline in the future without replacing the entire hub. For example: Nukeproof Neutron V2 Microspline Conversion Kit

 

[bitflogger]

The three freehub standards you're looking at are HG, XD, and Microspline. XD is SRAM specific, and allows for 12spd with 10t smallest cog. Microspline is Shimano specific, and allows for 12spd with 10t smallest cog. You currently have HG, which can do up to 12spd, but with 11t smallest cog. SRAM makes a 12spd cassette for HG, but Shimano does not.

Changing the number of gears will typically require changing the cassette, derailleur, shifter, and often times chain and chainring. While you can sometimes mix and match brands for specific items, the items usually have to be for the same number of speeds. You wouldn't use a 12spd shifter with a 10speed cassette or derailleur.

Going with XD or Microspline, you're looking at also needing to buy a full 12spd drivetrain to match the 12spd cassette you'd have to use. (I don't think anyone makes 10spd cassettes for XD or Microspline) If you want a new wheel that works with your current drivetrain, stick with HG. That will allow to use lower end SRAM SX/NX 12spd cassettes, or Shimano 11spd cassettes. 12 speeds is nice, but it's really the range that matters, IMO. 10-51t Shimano 12spd isn't that much different from 11-51t Shimano 11spd.

That's a great summary of my understanding having just done a new custom bike and also going through current supply shortages.

Something I noticed in getting the wheels is what might be a trend of newer products accommodating the cassette standards also being center lock type for brakes. There are 6 bold adapters available and the big point here a slight difference with SRAM and Shimano rotor thickness. If you want to swap wheels without much or any work ones should consider the rotors too.

I went with and am very pleased with 2021 Bontrager wheels where the newest in their line seem to have all the common standards in mind. The respected and experienced dealer pointed out parts availability and warranty I suggest considering too. After so many years of riding it's repeated where some great looking products have crappy post-sale support.

 

[Cary]

The wheels should last much longer than a few weeks unless you abuse them. I would ride them for a few months and see where you are and how the bike is working. You may decide in that you are happy with the bike and leave it, want to upgrade, or want an entirely different bike (i.e. full suspension).

 

[Shark]

The wheels should last much longer than a few weeks unless you abuse them. I would ride them for a few months and see where you are and how the bike is working. You may decide in that you are happy with the bike and leave it, want to upgrade, or want an entirely different bike (i.e. full suspension).

Agreed.

After some time riding, you will have a better idea of what you need/want, and then it can all be done together so you aren't running into parts compatibility issues.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[TheRoadNotTaken]

Thanks for those replies.

I do more or less know what I'd like to have, which is a bike that can take some moderate abuse from a 340lb guy who crushed 4 vertebrae when he was 21. Pretty simple. So in the last few days I've upgraded the head set, put a 140mm Z1 fork on and left the steerer long (60mm under the stem, 3x 20mm spacers), and upgraded the brakes to 4 piston G2 Rs. I also have a Cloud 9 seat (don't laugh). Combined with the already greater stack of the Sentier, it's just the right amount of upright position for me.

I'll give the stock WTB wheels a chance, however, I know..with absolute certainty, that I'm going to deform them, and probably snap spokes, at some point. I've been slowly destroying a Giant Sedona DX with 26" wheels for a year and a half, and replaced several spokes personally. I'm heavy, run a higher pressure than most to keep the bike rolling, spend too much time on my biscuit, and without a doubt ride improperly. But, I love it.

So I need to start planning for wheels. I've been looking at some custom builders who say their lead times were ~4-6 weeks, I believe, pre-pandemic. I don't know if I need hand-built wheels, but I sure would feel better having bulletproof wheels with 32-36 thick stainless spokes, brass nipples, and the like. If I could get a set for 500-700, it might be worth it. Of course I'll look at cheaper, but quality factory built too.

For wheels and drivetrain, I don't need high end with fancy options. But I'd like to be in the sweet spot of most bang for the buck durability-wise.

 

[mikesee]

Look hard at the DT 350 Hybrid hubs. Strong enough for a clyde, easily.

They're also convertible to work with any drivetrain -- XD, HG, or MS freehubs can be swapped off/on without need for tools.

I keep these in stock at all times, and my lead times have been less than a week of late.

 

[chucko58]

I can vouch for @mikesee's quick turnaround - when parts are in stock. I sent in his web form on a Sunday night/Monday morning (Memorial Day no less). We traded email about the build spec for a day, I sent payment Monday night, he had the wheels built and shipped by Wednesday. I got to ride them on Saturday.

 

[Sidewalk]

XD and HG cassettes are widely available and will be long into the future. Sram has an open license on using XD so anyone can use it for free.

As for future compatibility, I wouldn't worry about it. People make a big deal about changing standards, but it is over blown.

 

[Cary]

I would second going to Mikesee or other quality wheel builder (and by this I don't mean your local bike shop that builds two sets of wheels a month). For your given use, there is little off the shelf that is going to work well. Once you get to the $500+ pricepoint, there is a lot of value to a custom builder, and the cost is little, if any more, than you would pay for the parts alone if building yourself. The big advantage is you get is the knowledge that comes with building thousands of wheels, what combos work, what doesn't and the tradeoffs at any given price point.

Just as a point of reference, it is a common misconception among amateur (and even many bike shop) wheel builders that thick non-butted spokes are less likely to break than butted spokes, when in fact it is the opposite (spokes break at the ends and non-butted spokes stretch less and transmit more stress to ends where breaks occur). Now whether a DT Swiss Competition, Sapim Race, or Pillar PSR1422 is a better choice for your use is where an enthusiast like me has no field experience to make a recommendation, but someone like Mikesee has considerable experience with different options and what has and hasn't worked.

 

[Mudguard]

Pretty simple. So in the last few days I've upgraded the head set, put a 140mm Z1 fork on and left the steerer long (60mm under the stem, 3x 20mm spacers),

That's a lot of uncut steerer and a lot of extra leverage. I'd be cutting it down straight away, maybe leave room for a single spacer.

 

[TheRoadNotTaken]

That's a lot of uncut steerer and a lot of extra leverage. I'd be cutting it down straight away, maybe leave room for a single spacer.

It was intentional to make it more upright. I have considered the added leverage you suggest. It's a concern, mostly b/c I'm thinking about ovaling the headtube, however, the upright position is also very important due to back issues. Most of the force should be directed axially, with a much lesser component perpendicular to the steerer in the forward direction. Ovaling potential should be minimal. But let me know if there's something I'm unaware of, such as examples of longer steerers messing up head sets/tubes. It actually feels pretty solid. I'm not sure what the advantage of using a riser bar and short steerer would be.