CONS of using non-UST(w/ stans) tire on UST rim?
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Grimey said:
- Standard tire casings are not designed for use without tubes
- Standard tires can be difficult to seal/seat
- The beads of standard tires do not hold as well on UST rims as UST tires (UST tire beads are designed to lock onto the bead of the rim
- If you use the DIY rimstrip you are not saving much, if any weight
- With age, the sealant can glue the rim strip to the tire making it very difficult to remove the tire (seen it happen)
- DIY sealants are messy
Works ok for me
I have Continental Vertical Protections (regular) on Crossmax UST rims w/Stans. As I posted in another thread, a little messy upon first tries to get the tire to inflate, but now they're leak free. I'm very impressed by the Stan's system, but make sure to follow his instructions carefully.
At this point I see no reason to use tubes. The low pressure performance is awesome, better traction and just a bit snappier w/less weight.
I have Continental Vertical Protections (regular) on Crossmax UST rims w/Stans. As I posted in another thread, a little messy upon first tries to get the tire to inflate, but now they're leak free. I'm very impressed by the Stan's system, but make sure to follow his instructions carefully.
At this point I see no reason to use tubes. The low pressure performance is awesome, better traction and just a bit snappier w/less weight.
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hello all.
i struck a discount deal with kenda. if you buy ten or more tires from them you received a price brake up to 60 percent. i stumbled on it when i registered for my local mtb club. email kenda for more info.
i received kenda kharisma and bluegrooves and installed them on mavic crossroc ust wheelset with stans sealant and kenda blue groove non-ust tire. i did not use the stan rim tape.
so far to date 3 weeks and many miles. non ust tires are sealed and no issues.
dirt diggler
i struck a discount deal with kenda. if you buy ten or more tires from them you received a price brake up to 60 percent. i stumbled on it when i registered for my local mtb club. email kenda for more info.
i received kenda kharisma and bluegrooves and installed them on mavic crossroc ust wheelset with stans sealant and kenda blue groove non-ust tire. i did not use the stan rim tape.
so far to date 3 weeks and many miles. non ust tires are sealed and no issues.
dirt diggler
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Works great. Been racing some 3.1s(819s) all season with Schwalbe RRalphs, and not one burp, flat, or otherwise problem. Yes ya gotta mess with the sealant, but thats no big deal. The benefits way out weigh the bad stuff. Rolls fast, better traction(less psi), rides better, flat protection, no heavy rimstrips(don't need'm), lighter(no said rimstrips or tubes). The ONLY bad thing is, you better have an air compressor. Makes life much easier.
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I've been using WTB Motoraptor 2.24s with Crossmax SLs and Stan's for about a month. No rim strip is neeeded with these rims. So far no problems. Before I was using the UST Panaracers.Grimey said:
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- Sometimes harder to seal
- Cant run super low pressures due to lack of sidewall stiffness
- Can be messy (Oh I should have taken a pic of last nights session, with stans and Blue Grooves)
- Saves weight though
- Can burp when you hit kerbs or in dips
I still find times when I prefer to be running tubes or normal tubeless tires than non ust and latex.
is it true that most pinch flats happen on the rear tire....and most burping, peeling with stans happens on the front tire...why not run stans in the rear and tube in the front...most of the benifits rolling resistance is in rear as well ...just a thought
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I am interested in this topic as well. Just got a wheelset with Mavic XM819 rims and want to try some non-UST tires like the WTB Weirwolf 2.5, Kenda Blue Groove, and Nevegal. I've been running UST Hutchinson Pythons on my lightweight XC racing bike for years but now I want something burlier for the Maverick I am building. I ordered a pair of UST 2.1 Weirwolfs to start with but am anticipating I will want more tire, especially in front to go with the long-travel DUC32 fork.Grimey said:
I guess there is only one way to find out: try the non-UST tires with Stan's, and if I get a flat or have problems on the trail, throw in a tube. But I would love to hear more from riders who have tried the non-UST tire/Stan's/UST rim option. What tires have you had success with? What pressures do you run? Setup tips? What problems have you encountered? Is it worth the hassle? If you decide to convert back to tubes is it hard to clean the liquid latex from the inside of your tire (I have never used Stan's before)? Any other advice or comments appreciated. Thanks.
weirwolfs may not be the best
to use on a ust rim...they have a weak bead (unless yours' are wire bead not kevlar). I have had great success with Conti Vert Pro 2.3's on UST rims they have awesome tread and a tight bead that pops right in to a UST hoop. Stans is water soluble so clean up isn't that difficult. The point where the tire seals on the rim strip leaves a residue on the tire and the strip that peels off with a fingernail quite easily.
to use on a ust rim...they have a weak bead (unless yours' are wire bead not kevlar). I have had great success with Conti Vert Pro 2.3's on UST rims they have awesome tread and a tight bead that pops right in to a UST hoop. Stans is water soluble so clean up isn't that difficult. The point where the tire seals on the rim strip leaves a residue on the tire and the strip that peels off with a fingernail quite easily.
I had non-UST Weirwolf Race 2.1s (Kevlar bead) on a Mavic Crossmax UST wheels using Stan's, and they worked great. No flats in 7 months of riding.
I switched to Python Air-lights for the summer, but I've had two flats in a six weeks - they are too just too fragile for the kind of riding I do. They would probably be fine on just fire road riding, but stay out of the rock gardens on the Pythons. I'm going back to Weirwolfs.
The only down side to the Weirwolfs compared to the Pythons is the rolling resistance, which is no surprise. But the additional traction and flat resistance that you get from the Weirwolf is well worth a bit more rolling resistance.
I switched to Python Air-lights for the summer, but I've had two flats in a six weeks - they are too just too fragile for the kind of riding I do. They would probably be fine on just fire road riding, but stay out of the rock gardens on the Pythons. I'm going back to Weirwolfs.
The only down side to the Weirwolfs compared to the Pythons is the rolling resistance, which is no surprise. But the additional traction and flat resistance that you get from the Weirwolf is well worth a bit more rolling resistance.
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See my comments above about the 2.24 WTB Motoraptors. The right non-UST tire with a UST rim and Stan's works great.dyg2001 said:
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Blew a Cinder off the front rim...
There's a list of recommended brands on the Stan's site btw, Panaracer is not rec' because of 'weak' beads and I wouldn't run a Panaracer tubeless again. Shame really, in tubeless mode the slightly overweight Cinder starts making sense, with a tube in, it's a little too heavy for my tastes though otherwise a great and very solid tyre. UST Vert Pros work well in the mounting and reliability sense, but I hate their sketchy edge feel. If Panaracer came out with a tubeless Cinder at around the same weight, I'd buy a set tomorrow.
I was was running a 2.25 Panaracer Cinder off the front rim on a steep descent, big bang, latex everywhere, fortunately at low speed so no damage. I wouldn't recommend them run tubeless for that reason. I've successfully run normal Schwalbe Fat Alberts, Big Jims and Racing Ralph 2.5s both on UST rims and normal rims converted with an Eclipse rim kit. Also a Klein Deathgrip.dyg2001 said:
There's a list of recommended brands on the Stan's site btw, Panaracer is not rec' because of 'weak' beads and I wouldn't run a Panaracer tubeless again. Shame really, in tubeless mode the slightly overweight Cinder starts making sense, with a tube in, it's a little too heavy for my tastes though otherwise a great and very solid tyre. UST Vert Pros work well in the mounting and reliability sense, but I hate their sketchy edge feel. If Panaracer came out with a tubeless Cinder at around the same weight, I'd buy a set tomorrow.
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I have been using stans and non UST tires for about 10 months and I have had the best luck with WTB, which Stan does not recommend. I have used both Kenda and Specialized both of which Stan recommends but have found that they drop about 10 psi/week even with extra sealant. The two WTB's I have used (weirwolf and a moto raptor) drop about 1 psi/week.
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Great luck with non-UST tire / UST & Stan's ZTR355 Rim
I have a Maverick ML7 w/ DUC fork (someone above mentioned wanting something burlier for a Maverick) and I have two sets of wheels with the same hubs & rotors.
One set is an x3.1 (819) front and a 317 rear with Stan's rim strips. I have been using non-UST Kenda Kinetics Stick-E 2.3's since November last year. The rear almost has no tread, the front is OK. I use these for 75% of my riding. With the Stan's tubeless setup, run at 35psi, I can climb uglier and more loose trails than with the lighter setup, described below...even though there is only 1mm of tread left in the middle! And going down is more fun, don't have to worry about what I'm gonna hit as much. Air loss is non-existant. I used 2 1/2 scoops of sealant initially and have added 2 1/2 scoops two more times, about 4 months apart. The second time I removed a 1" latex ball that my 3 year old thought was fun to bounce around
The other set are both Stan's XTR355 rims, my lightweight/race setup. Only have had them for 2 months. Front tire is non-UST Kenda Blue Groove 2.1, rear is non-UST Conti Explorer Pro 2.1 (not ProTection). They are noticeably lighter on climbs, they accelerate fast. Only bummer is I have to temper myself when wanting to launch down stuff. I lose ~5 psi a month on the front, and zero on the rear. The Conti went on very well, super easy. Still undecided about the 2.1 BG. For the weight, I'd rather have a Vertical Pro or Explorer Pro which I think grip better.
Someone also asked about using regular tubes. I've done that 2 times after ripping the sidewalls on two separate Hutchinson Python Golds. Won't be buying those again for rocky Colo trails. Anyhow the tubes did not stick, and it wasn't even messy. I rode one for about 3 weeks like that, with a Powerbar wrapper inside to prevent the tube from sticking out of the hole and it still did not stick.
Since I don't have a compressor, or a great floor pump, or a garage, I just use a local gas station after soaping the beads with dish soap. I get there, put some water on the beads, put the Stan's solution in, use the presta adapter and voila, snap, aired up and I don't even have to clean up the mess! The environmentalists here in Boulder might not like that, but hey it's easier on the environment than their oil-leaking '83 Subaru wagon! Kidding, actually it's very little mess.
I have a Maverick ML7 w/ DUC fork (someone above mentioned wanting something burlier for a Maverick) and I have two sets of wheels with the same hubs & rotors.
One set is an x3.1 (819) front and a 317 rear with Stan's rim strips. I have been using non-UST Kenda Kinetics Stick-E 2.3's since November last year. The rear almost has no tread, the front is OK. I use these for 75% of my riding. With the Stan's tubeless setup, run at 35psi, I can climb uglier and more loose trails than with the lighter setup, described below...even though there is only 1mm of tread left in the middle! And going down is more fun, don't have to worry about what I'm gonna hit as much. Air loss is non-existant. I used 2 1/2 scoops of sealant initially and have added 2 1/2 scoops two more times, about 4 months apart. The second time I removed a 1" latex ball that my 3 year old thought was fun to bounce around
The other set are both Stan's XTR355 rims, my lightweight/race setup. Only have had them for 2 months. Front tire is non-UST Kenda Blue Groove 2.1, rear is non-UST Conti Explorer Pro 2.1 (not ProTection). They are noticeably lighter on climbs, they accelerate fast. Only bummer is I have to temper myself when wanting to launch down stuff. I lose ~5 psi a month on the front, and zero on the rear. The Conti went on very well, super easy. Still undecided about the 2.1 BG. For the weight, I'd rather have a Vertical Pro or Explorer Pro which I think grip better.
Someone also asked about using regular tubes. I've done that 2 times after ripping the sidewalls on two separate Hutchinson Python Golds. Won't be buying those again for rocky Colo trails. Anyhow the tubes did not stick, and it wasn't even messy. I rode one for about 3 weeks like that, with a Powerbar wrapper inside to prevent the tube from sticking out of the hole and it still did not stick.
Since I don't have a compressor, or a great floor pump, or a garage, I just use a local gas station after soaping the beads with dish soap. I get there, put some water on the beads, put the Stan's solution in, use the presta adapter and voila, snap, aired up and I don't even have to clean up the mess! The environmentalists here in Boulder might not like that, but hey it's easier on the environment than their oil-leaking '83 Subaru wagon! Kidding, actually it's very little mess.
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Give it a shot
Have been riding for a little over a month with a Blue Groove on a Crossmax Enduro w/Stan's. Works like a charm, no problems thus far. Give it a shot, you should know fairly soon if it'll work for you. BTW, waiting on the UST Blue Grooves to come in. Ride and enjoy.........
Kevin
Have been riding for a little over a month with a Blue Groove on a Crossmax Enduro w/Stan's. Works like a charm, no problems thus far. Give it a shot, you should know fairly soon if it'll work for you. BTW, waiting on the UST Blue Grooves to come in. Ride and enjoy.........
Kevin
non UST tires on UST rims
I know that some riders are using non UST tires with UST rims and Stans, but I am afraid that with my 220lb weight, that when I blow through some east coast baby heads while going downhill on my Blur, I am also going to blow the tire casing, or blow the tire off the rim. Any hard riding fanatical Clydes go with the aforementioned set up and with which tires? I've broken many parts and injured myself too many times for me to forego the additional weight of the more traditional UST setup with Stans unless I am sure that I will not crash and burn because of a "weight being more important than strength" issue. I do realize that nothing is guaranteed.
I know that some riders are using non UST tires with UST rims and Stans, but I am afraid that with my 220lb weight, that when I blow through some east coast baby heads while going downhill on my Blur, I am also going to blow the tire casing, or blow the tire off the rim. Any hard riding fanatical Clydes go with the aforementioned set up and with which tires? I've broken many parts and injured myself too many times for me to forego the additional weight of the more traditional UST setup with Stans unless I am sure that I will not crash and burn because of a "weight being more important than strength" issue. I do realize that nothing is guaranteed.
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How Low can you go?
PS - Yor're running w/o a rim strip right?
Howdy, I was just wondering how much air pressure you're running and how much you weigh? I've used the same setup and was wondering how 'low' I could go before possibly burping air out on a ride. Thanks...HTail said:
PS - Yor're running w/o a rim strip right?
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