Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
625 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I went riding with a buddy the other night (tibiker) and he got a chance to try out my jones..It was neat to see it from a different perspective (not riding it) as he hopped around on it and rode it. As I was following him on the downs I really noticed how active the rear of this bike is..He commented that it felt like a full suspension "Rigid"..Sounds like an oxymoron, but tibikers logged more time on rigid 29ers than me, and knows the feel of his 2 ti blacksheeps...
So I decided yesterday to try and capture this "passive suspension" with my go pro 2 camera..I strapped it to various places on the bike..First the seatpost..Its alu, not ti or carbon, so its not forgiving..The flex you see is in the frame, not the post, yo ucan see the back tire move VERTICLY about an inch, notice how theres no side to side movement...Another thing I noticed about this frame that I hadnt noticed before until I was holding it, is the seatstays are flattened out like on a dos niner to allow more verticle movement as well..

https://s284.photobucket.com/albums/ll21/jagardne/?action=view&current=PICT0170.flv

The second and third videos focus on the front end of the bike and show how stable and stiff the front fork and the headtube connection are. Another pet peeve of mine on ti bikes especially are the moving front end especially during rock sections and braking..Feels like your trying to lassow in a cow..

https://s284.photobucket.com/albums/ll21/jagardne/?action=view&current=PICT0171.flv

https://s284.photobucket.com/albums/ll21/jagardne/?action=view&current=PICT0173.flv

I just thought this might help explain the Mysterious feel of this bike..Theres a lot more that goes into it than just geometry or ti..
 

·
Occasionally engaged…
Joined
·
1,779 Posts
dosboy said:
The flex you see is in the frame, not the post, yo ucan see the back tire move VERTICLY about an inch, notice how theres no side to side movement...
I'm glad you like your bike and I'm sure it rides like a dream -- but I see nothing in your videos that I would attribute to vertical flex, let alone an inch...

With respect to the front fork -- I have two Ti frames, one with a steel fork and the other with a Ti fork (both unicrown -- not trusses). There are some subtle differences between the frames (half-inch deeper bb drop on one and half-inch longer chainstays on one), but I attribute the better performance of the steel fork equipped bike in rock gardens to the more resilient nature of the steel fork as compared to the Ti fork -- even though the Ti fork is pretty burly by Ti standards. There's less "sproinging" off rock with the steel fork -- it's still compliant, but the increase in stability when bashing into rocks ultimately means more control. Where the Ti fork shines is on terrain where there's a lot of chatter, less true impacts -- that's where the compliance is at it's best...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
465 Posts
The truss fork isn't meant to be compliant, but very stiff.

I agree- it's impossible to see if the rear end is flexing up and down in that video. Maybe - if you had a rear view showing the wheel, seatpost, chainstays and ground, you'd be able to distinguish flex from bumps in the ground.

From the thread here: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=4588318&page=3 looks like a thomson layback seatpost.
 

·
On your left.
Joined
·
1,188 Posts
The most important aspect of compliance is damping. That is where the control comes in. For small travel, tires perform much of the damping, but beyond that some sort of damper is significantly beneficial. Of course our arms and legs provide damping too.

But, I do agree that flexure based rear "suspsension" is great for a 29er. The next trick is to include damping in the tubing instead of from a traditional damper. Something like the Specialized vibration absorption system would be very interesting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
356 Posts
First, Dos are you not giving me credit for pointing out the flattened CS and SS to give it the flex? I see how you are.

As for the flex and the video I thought it was hard to see from that camera angle. I believe what we need to do is mount a helmet cam on the rider behind you, preferably he/she would be riding a full boinger so as to isolate as much trail chatter from the camera and then you'd definitely see the flex. I saw it as we headed down the trail for home and I was following you the other night Dos. It is very easy to see the tire moving up and down because the seat tube is directly in front of it and the black on silver (ti) color shows the flex really well.

My initial ride impressions were as follows:
-I really would have liked to ride the H bar and gotten used to that on another bike before I rode the bike. The different ride qualities of the bike were kind of hard for me to quantify because the bar felt so new to my senses. It felt more natural to climb with the H bar than descend because it seemed too close to my knees when I was going down. (I am 6'2" to Dosboys 6' even, so I know that the bike setup probably was more to blame than the bar)

-This bike almost felt like the reverse of a HT bike. What I mean is that on a HT bike, the rear is stiff and the front is cushy. On the Jones, it felt like the rear was cushy and the front was pretty stiff. Is anyone running a susp fork on their space frame? I bet it'd feel like a dually. I don't know if the geometry lends itself to a susp fork or not, anyone??

-I was not expecting the bike to climb well, but I was pleasantly surprised. Climbing up a steep switchback the front end didn't wander like I thought it would.

-It seemed lighter than I thought it'd be, did you ever weigh it Dos?

-Is there any place to mount a 2nd water bottle?

-If I ever ordered one, it'd be the larger size and/or a longer stem.

Very nice bike and thanks to Dos for allowing me to ride it on the trail and test it out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
200 Posts
dosboy said:
Its pretty easy for me to see the rear tire moving up and down, maybey I need to take some video from that view going off a 4-5 ft drop..Time to go to moab!!!
NICE...yeah i can see the tire move up on the smaller bumps and the camera doesn't move. The larger bumps both tire and camera move.
 

·
Expert Crasher
Joined
·
6,359 Posts
fwiw - I get some flex from my Thomson setback 27.2x410mm - not a lot, but enough to discount the notion that an Al seatpost won't flex.

I don't doubt that there is vertical rear compliance though, heck, I noticed that the first time I rode the Monocog Flight when comparing it to my old Astrix Rook.

I like the Jones bike theory but the Space frame aesthetic just isn't there for me, I like his other one better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
434 Posts
-Is there any place to mount a 2nd water bottle?

Yes you can have one on the underneath of the down tube.
I wouldn't use round here in the mud in the winter, as it would get covered in mud.
 

·
Harmonius Wrench
Joined
·
8,254 Posts
What! What did you say?

tibiker325 said:
........ Is anyone running a susp fork on their space frame? I bet it'd feel like a dually. I don't know if the geometry lends itself to a susp fork or not, anyone??

.
The Jones "homers" will have you drawn a quartered for such a suggestion! :D ;) :p

The videos do nothing for the point here. (I will say that the sound is something akin to a fingernail scratching a mic sheild through a PA system. You really should have warned us about that. ;) :D )

Anyway, I have seen Jeff Jones demonstrate his frames at Interbike and there is some nominal amount of vertical compliance there. Obviously, a nice tubeless tire would only add to the effect, but at any rate, I've seen how the frame does work.

Motivated brings up a great point here. These forks (Willits WOW) and frames (Jeff Jones) that claim vertical compliance are undamped. This isn't a good thing in certain situations, but for general trail riding, (much like that shown in the videos) I would think that this frame and fork would be a beneficial and desirable thing to have. Start throwing in gnarly stuff like rock gradens, small drops, and the like, especially at speed, and you will run into the problems with undamped "spring return". That's where a suspension bike will end up being faster and more controllable.

For the rigid purists though, I can see where the Jones is the pinnacle of performance. Certainly it is a visual statement without peer, and that only adds to the overall experience.

Nice bike, by the way, dosboy. I hope you enjoy it for many years. :thumbsup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
625 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
John Jencks said:
-Is there any place to mount a 2nd water bottle?

Yes you can have one on the underneath of the down tube.
I wouldn't use round here in the mud in the winter, as it would get covered in mud.
Or you could do this ;) Jones personal ride ready to go on an epic..

Guitar ted- Your definitely right, this bike is the creme de la creme of rigids, but rigid is after all rigid, any rock garden at high speed (say like porcupine rim in moab) will quickly remind you of that fact...
 

Attachments

·
Brass Nipples!
Joined
·
2,006 Posts
Guitar Ted said:
Motivated brings up a great point here. These forks (Willits WOW) and frames (Jeff Jones) that claim vertical compliance are undamped. This isn't a good thing in certain situations, but for general trail riding, (much like that shown in the videos) I would think that this frame and fork would be a beneficial and desirable thing to have. Start throwing in gnarly stuff like rock gradens, small drops, and the like, especially at speed, and you will run into the problems with undamped "spring return". That's where a suspension bike will end up being faster and more controllable.
I raced a litespeed Tsali with an inch of flex in the rear (Moots YBB like) for quite a while. It was good for chatter, but tended to rebound harshly off of bigger hits: no damping. After I got a Turner with better controlled suspensiion, I found I was using the Tsali less and less.

Anyone ridden the Spaceframe and a Moots 29er YBB? If so, how did they compare ride-quality wise?
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top