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kitchenware said:
I'm aware of that, but under the Supergo name, they stock more than just road and XC stuff.
And from what I understand, Supergo does a pretty good job at ins tore merchandising and the like. Kind of like Foley's and Walmart, only the $$ end up at the same place...

Lots of the "big" dept store type front range shops are more than a little scared right now. Supergo's biggest impact will be on customers that want the department store feel - lots of apparel, bright lights, etc. They're slated to be open in a week or two. It will be interesting to see how/if it shapes the local bike biz.
 

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ignazjr said:
And from what I understand, Supergo does a pretty good job at ins tore merchandising and the like. Kind of like Foley's and Walmart, only the $$ end up at the same place...

Lots of the "big" dept store type front range shops are more than a little scared right now. Supergo's biggest impact will be on customers that want the department store feel - lots of apparel, bright lights, etc. They're slated to be open in a week or two. It will be interesting to see how/if it shapes the local bike biz.
I want TOP SHELF PARTS CHEAP. If I can get it cheaper on the internet.
Thats where I will buy them. I dont care if it's JensonUSA, Universal Cycles, Supergo, or whatever.
The walmarts of Bike shops save me money and it's all about me.
I want to support LBS, but I am not made of Retail money.
 

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But what if there were no more LBS?

Ah but think about this: What if you had to mail-order tubes or cables/housing 'cause the LBS is gone? Or try to warranty something at the LBS that you bought mail-order?

I do both. Some stuff I mail-order, other stuff I pay retail - if it's close. Ironically it's SALES TAX that usually drives me to mail-order on the big stuff.

Case in point:

I want a road bike for soggy trail days and when the snow at Eldora sux. I am leaning towards a Salsa Campeon frameset. Louisville Cyclery wants $940, Speedgoat wants $890 shipped. The $50, although substantial, would be worth it to have the service (maybe the thing ships out of alignment, crap paint, carbon stays de-bond, etc) and throw a little coin to a local shop. But wait! SALES TAX will add another $60 to the local deal, making it $110 more than mail-order. Speedgoat will get my business if Louisville Cyclery won't match. And that's when I have no sympathy for the LBS - you can either make SOME money off of me, or none 'cause of your stubborn greed. The LBS is at a disadvantage sometimes due to sales tax that out of state mail-order outfits don't have to contend with.

All I'm sayin' is - if it's close in price, give the LBS your biz or the opportunity to come close. If not, take the mail-order route. That's my 2 cents.

When does Supergo open down there? ;)
 

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36Cycleplane said:
I do both.
I think you've got the right attitude.

I buy most (all here as of late) of my high-end stuff through www.mtnhighcyclery.com Larry seems to always have what I need and at the right price which is very competitive to the internet and it's right there local. Sure my LBS is an hour away, but you can't beat dealing with Larry and the shop is always full of candy. :D

My view on the LBS is, if I go in and feel like I know more than the ppl I'm talking to, I'm leaving. I also learned a long time ago that if I want my bike worked on in a timely fashion, I have to do it myself, and I do now... everything. I'm not saying I'm some high and mighty cyclist, but there are a few shops here in town that need a wake-up call. One of them got it recently and has made some really nice changes since, but I still couldn't pay their prices.

Anyway, I can't speak highly enough of mtnhigh, so I'll quit before it gets sappy...
 

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36Cycleplane said:
....But wait! SALES TAX will add another $60 to the local deal, making it $110 more than mail-order. Speedgoat will get my business if Louisville Cyclery won't match. And that's when I have no sympathy for the LBS - you can either make SOME money off of me, or none 'cause of your stubborn greed. The LBS is at a disadvantage sometimes due to sales tax that out of state mail-order outfits don't have to contend with.

All I'm sayin' is - if it's close in price, give the LBS your biz or the opportunity to come close. If not, take the mail-order route. That's my 2 cents.
Supergo is the Walmart of the bike biz and if you're down with that, more power to you.

I think it's pretty f'n harsh to say that if your bike shop won't match the price it's because of "stubborn greed." To truth of the matter is that depending on their overhead (and overhead in CO is high), then matching the price may well be a negative ecomony for them. It's not that they're only making a little money, it's that they're losing money. Operating at a negative ecomony is something a lot of folks just can't understand.

Look at my biz. It costs me X amount to have my CNC mills running. So if you were to come in and see them sitting idle and say, "hey, since you're not using your machines, how about you make me some rocker plates for my full-squishy for $30 an hour and then you'll at least be making some money."

At this point, I'd explain to you that turning them on, wear and tear on the machine, the electricity, the cost of lubes & fluids, and cutters costs me $40/hr. So in effect, when the plates were done I'd just hand them over and give you a 10-spot out of my wallet and you'd walk out all happy but I'd be poorer for it. And, if I kept operating at a negative economy, I'd soon run out of tens and then I could call you and you'd pay my mortgage for me, right?

I don't have anything against mail order places, but the reason you don't find a lot of high end stuff in many shops is that there's no money in it; a brick & mortar store front has a hard time generating the sales volume to compete with the buying power of a mail order joint unless they turn into one themselves.
 

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Your LBS is important

For some of us, paying someone to work on a bike is unthinkable. Many of the folks on this board are master mechanics, or at least competent journeymen. But even the best of us sometimes runs into a problem we can't easily solve - seized freewheel, snapped off cable stop, bent derailleur hanger, badly dented frame tube, etc. Sooner or later, you won't be able to do the work yourself - and if there's no more LBS, you're out of luck. Do you really want to send your bike to Supergo for repairs? Yeah, didn't think so.

And it's even more important for bike folks who either don't want to or can't work on their own bikes. There are plenty of them out there, but most of them don't frequent the board. With no LBS, many people who are casual/recreational/commuter riders won't have any way to keep their bikes tuned up and in repair - and those people (and their votes) are the ones that get bike lanes built, keep trails open to mountain bikes, and don't drive their cars to work everyday (less traffic and pollution are very good things). I don't know about y'all, but I WANT bikes to be popular, convenient, and easily available. Most casual riders don't buy a bike in the mail - they don't know their size, they aren't familiar with the terminology, and they want someone to talk them through their purchase. This is EASILY worth the price markup for 90% of bicyclists.

Or maybe you're still in high school - and you want to learn to work on bikes, or need to make a little money, or just want to hang around with the oh-so-cool folks at the bike shop. So you get a job as a wrench for minimum wage. Lots of us have done it at some point - but if you've gotta drive 2 hours to the nearest SuperJensoPricePoint.com, you probably won't ever get that job.

Your LBS provides services that many people need, jobs for kids, and (usually) competent and friendly advice. But if the big mail order chains steal most of the parts/frames/complete bikes business, most of them will probably die, and I think that would be much more of a disaster for cycling than many people realize.

-Walt
 

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DWF said:
I think it's pretty f'n harsh to say that if your bike shop won't match the price it's because of "stubborn greed." To truth of the matter is that depending on their overhead (and overhead in CO is high), then matching the price may well be a negative ecomony for them. It's not that they're only making a little money, it's that they're losing money. Operating at a negative ecomony is something a lot of folks just can't understand.

QUOTE]

I'm not sayin' any LBS should lose money, but if you choose to make nothing over something then I stand by my claim of "stubborn greed". If it's not worth the time or hassle to make a few bucks - fine by me, I can understand that.

Your analogy of your CNC stuff is not really valid, because (duh!) I would never expect someone to take in the shorts just for little ol' me. My specific example from above makes my point because I know what the dealer cost is on the purchase, and the LBS would still make quite a handsome little sum for simply making a phone call and cashing the check.

There are a lot of crappy LBS out there, and just a few good ones. I just bought a full carbon road bike from my favorite LBS last week and got a smokin' price. I doubt they made much money off of the deal, but were willing to drop the price because I was honest about other options I was considering. Smart business -> one in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Remember that the main point of my post was really the same as yours - Support your LBS.
 

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You need a LBS, you don't need one... Blah blah blah.

I think it all boils down to what works best for you/me. Me? If I want to ride my bike and continue to buy good stuff, then I gotta get it where I can afford it and the LBSs in my town are SOL. Why? Because I'm not loaded and they aren't playing the price game. Why aren't they? Because most of them haven't figured out how to survive away from selling Joe Blow a cassette over MSRP or fixing Mr. Incompetent's flat and putting his tire back on BACKWARDS.

I still buy things from the LBS here in town from time to time, but I know what and where to buy and I do it ALL myself. No one else will ever work on my bike or my car, that's just how I am and I enjoy being this way. I'm not killing cycling or LBSs.

Smart LBSs are in on the internet game and will survive. Others? Well, sorry.

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kitchenware said:
You need a LBS, you don't need one... Blah blah blah.
I'm mostly in the same boat. I enjoy going to look at the new rigs and parts, etc. I don't need them for service, and I can ALWAYS find a cheaper price elsewhere, when it comes to the Boulder shops.

I was at a party about a month ago talking to a guy that I see about twice a year. He was telling me about how he HATED shopping for a new road bike in Boulder. Everyone he talked to was too busy trying to prove how cool they were to be working in a shop that they didn't listen to what he wanted.
 
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