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Colo Sprgs builds new trails - enduro-bros complain about them

9577 Views 95 Replies 41 Participants Last post by Streetdoctor, Jan 25, 2022

_CJ

Discussion Starter · Nov 16, 2021

Colorado Springs opened 7 miles of new trails to the community last weekend, and the enduro-bros showed up in force in the comments to **** all over them.

https://gazette.com/premium/nearly-7-miles-of-new-trail-open-in-colorado-springs-park/article_8b812758-440f-11ec-8e87-9fc61564b1c7.html

I just don't get it with these guys. I've never encountered such a bizarre sense of entitlement in my life. Is it a generational thing? I'm old enough to remember how few trails there were 20-30 years ago, so I'm especially grateful for how good we have it here now.

No, the trails aren't world cup downhill courses, or lift serviced freeride parks (although the city plans to build one of those too). These trails are multi-use, so they can't be ripping fall line downhill only, MTB only, trails. The city did have the builder incorporate "B lines" for some added excitement/difficulty, but that apparently isn't good enough for these guys.

Personally, I blame the bike industry. Modern bikes make most trails too easy these days, and the vast majority of riders are over-biked for most trails, but instead of riding a bike appropriate to the trails they have available to them, they complain that the trails being handed to them on a silver platter aren't good enough. Meanwhile, other user groups are having trails taken away from them, denied requests for new trail construction, and/or they're being entirely shut out from any use of the trails in their region.

Keep complaining guys, maybe they'll decide it's not worth their time to build any more.

Reactions: 5

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smmokan

· #2 · Nov 16, 2021

Disclaimer: I don't know anything about the trails in COS and have never ridden anywhere down there. That said, one of the first things mentioned in the article is that one of the steeper trails (Daniels Pass?) was remade into a "gentler, switchbacking trail to cater to people on foot and wheels". So my thought is that people are pissed for two reasons: one, they potentially took away a steep, fun descent. And two, yet another trail system is built without any legitimately difficult trails.

It's funny you look at it from the angle of modern bikes making trails easier, instead of being more progressive and looking at it from the other side. Why not make trails harder to accommodate for better bikes and more skilled riders? If you do that, you also give the beginner and intermediate riders something to work towards. Instead, almost all new trail systems have to be "ridden by everyone", and a significantly large proportion of fun/difficult trails are unsanctioned on the Front Range.

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Reactions: 5

NorCal_In_AZ

· #3 · Nov 16, 2021

When you build trails with everyone's money (tax dollars) the trails need to accommodate everyone. If enduro bros want enduro bro trails, then they should raise private funds from other enudro bros.

Reactions: 5

_CJ

Discussion Starter · #4 · Nov 16, 2021

smmokan said:
Disclaimer: I don't know anything about the trails in COS and have never ridden anywhere down there. That said, one of the first things mentioned in the article is that one of the steeper trails (Daniels Pass?) was remade into a "gentler, switchbacking trail to cater to people on foot and wheels". So my thought is that people are pissed for two reasons: one, they potentially took away a steep, fun descent. And two, yet another trail system is built without any legitimately difficult trails.

It's funny you look at it from the angle of modern bikes making trails easier, instead of being more progressive and looking at it from the other side. Why not make trails harder to accommodate for better bikes and more skilled riders? If you do that, you also give the beginner and intermediate riders something to work towards. Instead, almost all new trail systems have to be "ridden by everyone", and a significantly large proportion of fun/difficult trails are unsanctioned on the Front Range.

The trail that was decommissioned wasn't a system trail. It was a remnant of a historic trail that people used to access cabins and mining camps up there in the 1800's, and was long abandoned until a few decades ago. Back before the internet existed, I used to pour over old maps, and Danial's Pass was one of those trails that my friends and I resurrected. Ultimately, we quit riding it because it was too little payoff for too much work (climbing), and it went unused for years until the latest generation started riding it again. It never was very good, and I'm happy to trade several miles of new trail for it.

To be clear, the city is working to accommodate these guys. In the past year or two, the city has made two previously bi-directional trails downhill only, MTB only, they plan to incorporate an illegally built downhill MTB trail into the system, and are also planning to build an MTB freeride park in an old rock quarry in town. It just blows my mind these riders have the gall to complain about anything the city is doing with the local trail systems, but they do....every single time a new trail gets built.

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Reactions: 5

Zoomie

· #5 · Nov 16, 2021

I'm with you CJ. Been riding the Canon since 1992. Daniel's Pass was a fun trail, but besides the one log drop, it was nothing more than a ball bearing slide to the bottom of the hill. Captain Morgan's is definitely a more legit trail and I believe that is why MWTA fought to keep that one and let Daniel's go by the wayside in the master plan. The city is doing a great job of expanding trail networks and I do believe they have caught on that mountain biking brings tourists - unfortunately that's a double-edged sword. With the new land acquisition near CMSP, new sanctioned trails at Pulpit Rock, and the additions of the mine land near Blodgett and Waldo Canyon - the trail systems in COS will be better than ever.

Reactions: 2

Harold

· #6 · Nov 16, 2021

smmokan said:
It's funny you look at it from the angle of modern bikes making trails easier, instead of being more progressive and looking at it from the other side. Why not make trails harder to accommodate for better bikes and more skilled riders? If you do that, you also give the beginner and intermediate riders something to work towards. Instead, almost all new trail systems have to be "ridden by everyone", and a significantly large proportion of fun/difficult trails are unsanctioned on the Front Range.

There absolutely is a disconnect between the capability of a lot of bikes available now (bikes make existing trails "easier" or, alternately phrased, they allow riders to go faster on nastier trails) and what land managers actually want or are willing to offer. The land managers anywhere are always going to be slower to adapt to the trends in any given industry, and they're going to be more conservative about it. Land managers who manage larger chunks of land the most slowly of them all. The land managers have to figure out how to balance the experiences of ALL users (this trail is stated to be multi-use, so there's a huge screaming factor right there), plus how the trail affects OTHER forest resources, plus the trail itself, and additionally any trail reworking needs to have budgetary considerations. The nastier the trail, the more expensive and time-consuming it is to build in the first place. Making a trail difficult that meets other management considerations is going to be extremely expensive.

And frankly, meeting the desires of the mtb riders who want the hardest, rowdiest trails is going to run contrary to a multiple use trail experience. You get to a point where obstacles/features require so much commitment from riders that they physically cannot stop for anyone on the other side of the obstacle.

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Reactions: 4

Tickle

· #7 · Nov 16, 2021

Used to ride Daniels pass, need to go checkout this new loop looks like fun!

Reactions: 1

baker

· #8 · Nov 16, 2021

IME, people are gonna beeyotch no matter what you do. Personally, I'm stoked that we have such a great group in Medicine Wheel and a healthy relationship with the City for developing and maintaining mountain bike trails in an official capacity.

Reactions: 3

Jayem

· #9 · Nov 16, 2021

Yeah, it's a bit annoying how trails are all made as gentle as possible with as many grade reversals as possible so that a DH trail is no longer DH, as in if I have to pedal more than half the time just to keep going, it's really hard to call it DH and it gets annoying having to pedal for your life (as an elite racer) just to make little terrain features that you should just be able to carry speed into. No trail is actually sustainable, they all take work and time and reroutes and everything else associated.

The other gorilla is that there are so many areas that are just so far behind in terms of trail options and access. Washington State, Oregon, a lot of the PNW: They get it. A lot of places are 20-40 years behind still and they want to make a huge deal when they get a couple trails, which is always good, but still falls way short.

I enjoyed some of the 'springs trails when I was there. CO in general has some good options.

Reactions: 3

FortOrdMTB

· #10 · Nov 16, 2021

It is amazing that people buy a bike but don’t want to pedal. Green trails are what will be put in at the city level because that is what the majority will use. Why put in all the time and money for a handful of riders?

What people don’t understand or appreciate is the layers and difficulty to get something done like this when involving government. They make trails for EVERYONE not just the Bros. New trails should be celebrated!

Reactions: 5

Jayem

· #11 · Nov 16, 2021

FortOrdMTB said:
What people don’t understand or appreciate is the layers and difficulty to get something done like this when involving government.

Which is why building illegal trails is much better.

Reactions: 5

slapheadmofo

· #12 · Nov 16, 2021

Paywall.

baker

· #13 · Nov 16, 2021

slapheadmofo said:
Paywall.

Even with a paid subscription, the Gazette has become overloaded with so many ads that I find it not worth visiting (esp on a phone)...

Below is the gist of what annoys those who liked the previously rugged version of Daniels...

"The spine of the new system is the realigned Daniels Pass Trail. The steep, downhill descent historically known by mountain bikers has been remade in a gentler, switchbacking way to cater to people on foot and wheels. "
...
"The goal, Deitemeyer said, "was to have a trail system that appeals to the majority of park visitors." "
...
"Sutela also suspected "pure downhill" riders of the former Daniels Pass would miss the old thrill. He called Sweetwater trails "more flowy" with "some compelling tech features" like rocks and jumps. "

749800

· #14 · Nov 16, 2021

FYI: You can read the Gazette with the Brave browser without any ads or paywall interference. (They are the same group as San Jose Merc and Santa Cruz Senile).

The website reports a wildfire just started in Estes Park.

chiefsilverback

· #15 · Nov 16, 2021

smmokan said:
That said, one of the first things mentioned in the article is that one of the steeper trails (Daniels Pass?) was remade into a "gentler, switchbacking trail to cater to people on foot and wheels". So my thought is that people are pissed for two reasons: one, they potentially took away a steep, fun descent.

Send them up to New England where the foot paths are completely unrideable because they just go straight up!

baker

· #16 · Nov 16, 2021

wgscott said:
FYI: You can read the Gazette with the Brave browser without any ads or paywall interference. (They are the same group as San Jose Merc and Santa Cruz Senile).

The website reports a wildfire just started in Estes Park.

Oh no! It has been super dry and there are forecast winds of 46mph...hopefully they get things under control quickly.

Ogre

· #17 · Nov 16, 2021

_CJ said:
These trails are multi-use, so they can't be ripping fall line downhill only, MTB only, trails.

Multi-use trails are often 8 foot wide covered in gravel and heavy traffic. In other words exactly the perfect storm to piss off everyone. So easy they are super fast on bikes, so crowded you can't go fast but when you do they are so crowded you are guaranteed to piss of hikers and horseback riders.

Is that what you mean by Multi-Use? If so, I can see the point. Our city says they have "15 miles of mountain bike trails" and they are all complete garbage for bikes.

Reactions: 2

TooTallUK

· #18 · Nov 16, 2021

smmokan said:
instead of being more progressive and looking at it from the other side. Why not make trails harder to accommodate for better bikes and more skilled riders? If you do that, you also give the beginner and intermediate riders something to work towards. Instead, almost all new trail systems have to be "ridden by everyone"

You build the easier trails first. They are the core of your trails. You can then build more progressive trails off there. Those trails should be further away from access, preferably with access restrictions via a technical trail feature. Sure, have something for people to aspire to, but you have to build that progression into the trails. Also, if they are multi use trails the rules are going to be completely different.

Reactions: 3

Jayem

· #19 · Nov 16, 2021

TooTallUK said:
You build the easier trails first. They are the core of your trails. You can then build more progressive trails off there. Those trails should be further away from access, preferably with access restrictions via a technical trail feature. Sure, have something for people to aspire to, but you have to build that progression into the trails. Also, if they are multi use trails the rules are going to be completely different.

If you are lucky, this might even happen before you die!

r-rocket

· #20 · Nov 16, 2021

slapheadmofo said:
Paywall.

Try opening it in a private window and then close the pop-up window when it displays over the story. It is a pretty weak paywall

Reactions: 1

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