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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm absolutely loving my new GG set up as a Pistola. The Topaz T3 works awesome but I want to try a coil so I ordered a DVO Jade X the other day with a 450 spring. I weight 195 ready to ride. MRP's spring calculator says 450 and TFTuned's caculTor

I went with the DVO because I love the user serviceability as I travel for work full-time. We are never in the same place more than 3-6 months which makes sending things out for service a pain in the @@S.

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I'm on an OG GG Smash running a PUSH 11.6; weigh about the same as you kitted. My bike is outfitted with a 400# spring and I'm in heaven. Riding styles & terrain vary so I'm not saying a 450# spring won't serve you better, only recommending you not overlook going softer if you ever question the firmer spring. When my bike was new I started out on a 525# spring (I weighed 205# back then, now down to 185# out of the shower). @Dougal's spring calculator recommended a 441# spring for me at my current weight but @Cerberus75 suggested I consider going even softer and I'm glad I took his advice. Experiment, see what feels best. Too bad metal springs aren't free like air. :)

Nice looking bike.
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm on an OG GG Smash running a PUSH 11.6; weigh about the same as you kitted. My bike is outfitted with a 400# spring and I'm in heaven. Riding styles & terrain vary so I'm not saying a 450# spring won't serve you better, only recommending you not overlook going softer if you ever question the firmer spring. When my bike was new I started out on a 525# spring (I weighed 205# back then, now down to 185# out of the shower). @Dougal's spring calculator recommended a 441# spring for me at my current weight but @Cerberus75 suggested I consider going even softer and I'm glad I took his advice. Experiment, see what feels best. Too bad metal springs aren't free like air. :)

Nice looking bike.
=sParty
Thank you!!

I'm not familiar with the AL bikes. What's the travel and shock stroke? The Pistola is 130 with a 210x55 shock.

I have ridden a Size 2 Pistola with a 400lb coil and it felt too soft. But the bike was super small for me and it was a pretty smooth trail.
 

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Thank you!!

I'm not familiar with the AL bikes. What's the travel and shock stroke? The Pistola is 130 with a 210x55 shock.

I have ridden a Size 2 Pistola with a 400lb coil and it felt too soft. But the bike was super small for me and it was a pretty smooth trail.
My OG Smash is 140mm travel, 230x57.5 shock.

Before buying the 2018 aluminum Smash, I owned an OG Pistola and loved that bike -- only switched to the Smash because my Pistola was a size L frame and I realized I should be riding a size XL. At the time, I thought, "130mm travel is terrific, why not try 140mm?" so rather than replace the size L Pistola frame with an XL, I switched to more travel when I moved up in frame size.

When GG went from aluminum to carpet fiber frames around January '19, they switched their sizing from XS-XL format to 1-4. I don't know what size my frame would be in their numeric system, not that it matters or that I care. Anyway after riding this bike hard throughout the past 3 years, I can say I still love it as much as the day I got it. Which is to say, a lot. Hope you love yours as much.
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I'm absolutely loving my new GG set up as a Pistola. The Topaz T3 works awesome but I want to try a coil so I ordered a DVO Jade X the other day with a 450 spring. I weight 195 ready to ride. MRP's spring calculator says 450 and TFTuned's caculTor

I went with the DVO because I love the user serviceability as I travel for work full-time. We are never in the same place more than 3-6 months which makes sending things out for service a pain in the @@S.

View attachment 1947032
Nice ride :) So I ran coil on both the AL frames and the Revved frames. I found on the Shred Dogg and Megatrail I had to run a heavier spring than i was sized for. I think at 180-190, they sized me on a 450 lb spring as well.

I've run the 11-6 (original), Fox DHX2, and Ohlins TTX coil on the Revved frames. Each time I really found to get better midstroke support, getting on a 500 lb spring made the bikes feel much better. I think on the 11-6 I ended up going to a 475 lb, and that felt much better than the 450 lb.
 

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One thing that is a little annoying is that you really should be getting springs in 25lb increments for these lower-leverage frames. Spring tolerances generally suck too, around 10% off, so just because a spring is printed with a certain lb doesn't mean it's going to work great, you gotta experiment a bit to really find that right coil spring rate, which is the crappy part about coils (while there are really good things about them). At 165 or so I found that a 350lb works great for my 155mm setting with my Bomber CR, was doing Whistler, Squamish, Tiger, other hard riding last week and this worked great. In the 165mm setting, my MT felt too plush and was using too much travel, where I am fairly certain I'd be bottoming on the harder stuff with that same spring, so I'm going to step up to 375 for my EXT. I tried 400 on both shocks and both travel settings and that was just crap as far as spring rate, made me feel like I was riding on my fork with a terrible forward-weight-bias, no matter my seat height or the terrain. So with lower leverage bikes, you really need to be looking at 25lb increments IMO (or even lower if possible), although some of it is still a crap-shoot due to the crappy spring tolerances.

This is another area where they load us up with all these purported "benefits" of longer stroke metric shocks that work at lower leverage, but it makes it harder to get the spring rate right, vs. when you have higher leverage there's less % difference between 50lb increments.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
One thing that is a little annoying is that you really should be getting springs in 25lb increments for these lower-leverage frames. Spring tolerances generally suck too, around 10% off, so just because a spring is printed with a certain lb doesn't mean it's going to work great, you gotta experiment a bit to really find that right coil spring rate, which is the crappy part about coils (while there are really good things about them). At 165 or so I found that a 350lb works great for my 155mm setting with my Bomber CR, was doing Whistler, Squamish, Tiger, other hard riding last week and this worked great. In the 165mm setting, my MT felt too plush and was using too much travel, where I am fairly certain I'd be bottoming on the harder stuff with that same spring, so I'm going to step up to 375 for my EXT. I tried 400 on both shocks and both travel settings and that was just crap as far as spring rate, made me feel like I was riding on my fork with a terrible forward-weight-bias, no matter my seat height or the terrain. So with lower leverage bikes, you really need to be looking at 25lb increments IMO (or even lower if possible), although some of it is still a crap-shoot due to the crappy spring tolerances.

This is another area where they load us up with all these purported "benefits" of longer stroke metric shocks that work at lower leverage, but it makes it harder to get the spring rate right, vs. when you have higher leverage there's less % difference between 50lb increments.
I agree. From what I understand a SLS spring will fit on the Jade X and they come in 25lb increments. Or Sprindex is always an option.
 

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I'm absolutely loving my new GG set up as a Pistola. The Topaz T3 works awesome but I want to try a coil so I ordered a DVO Jade X the other day with a 450 spring. I weight 195 ready to ride. MRP's spring calculator says 450 and TFTuned's caculTor

I went with the DVO because I love the user serviceability as I travel for work full-time. We are never in the same place more than 3-6 months which makes sending things out for service a pain in the @@S.

View attachment 1947032
190 all geared up on a revved Smash. 450lb spring works well, although tempted to try a 475 with a lighter compression tune.

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185 geared up on a AL Smash and running a 400# spring. I like more sag than most and it's perfect.
I'm in exactly the same boat, except that I'm 185# W/O gear on an AL Smash. So I'm even heavier on a 400# spring than @milehi and I wouldn't want any heavier spring.

Well, except maybe a 400-450# progressive spring. Which is what I'm running on my Canfield Lithium. It's dreamy - sooo plush on top yet I just can't seem to bottom the thing no matter how hard I try. Un-F-ing-believeable.

I can't deny the Smash is a bit easier to bottom @400# and my tonnage.
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I'm in exactly the same boat, except that I'm 185# W/O gear on an AL Smash. So I'm even heavier on a 400# spring than @milehi and I wouldn't want any heavier spring.

Well, except maybe a 400-450# progressive spring. Which is what I'm running on my Canfield Lithium. It's dreamy - sooo plush on top yet I just can't seem to bottom the thing no matter how hard I try. Un-F-ing-believeable.

I can't deny the Smash is a bit easier to bottom @400# and my tonnage.
=sParty
190 all geared up on a revved Smash. 450lb spring works well, although tempted to try a 475 with a lighter compression tune.

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185 geared up on a AL Smash and running a 400# spring. I like more sag than most and it's perfect.
I'm in exactly the same boat, except that I'm 185# W/O gear on an AL Smash. So I'm even heavier on a 400# spring than @milehi and I wouldn't want any heavier spring.

Well, except maybe a 400-450# progressive spring. Which is what I'm running on my Canfield Lithium. It's dreamy - sooo plush on top yet I just can't seem to bottom the thing no matter how hard I try. Un-F-ing-believeable.

I can't deny the Smash is a bit easier to bottom @400# and my tonnage.
=sParty
The problem is different stroke length shocks have different leverage ratios and longer springs sit at a different compressed length on the coil. So, unless the AL Smash uses a 55mm stroke shock and has 130mm travel, it wont require the same rate coil unfortunately. I don't know much about the AL GG bikes as I didn't hear about them until 2019.

For instance, the revved Smash is 145mm travel with a 65mm stroke shock for a ratio of 4.48% and the revved Pistola is 130mm on a 55mm stroke shock for a ratio of 4.23%. You're also changing the ratio if you're running in plush vs crush which will also effect the required spring rate. Ugh, so much........
 

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The problem is different stroke length shocks have different leverage ratios and longer springs sit at a different compressed length on the coil. So, unless the AL Smash uses a 55mm stroke shock and has 130mm travel, it wont require the same rate coil unfortunately. I don't know much about the AL GG bikes as I didn't hear about them until 2019.

For instance, the revved Smash is 145mm travel with a 65mm stroke shock for a ratio of 4.48% and the revved Pistola is 130mm on a 55mm stroke shock for a ratio of 4.23%. You're also changing the ratio if you're running in plush vs crush which will also effect the required spring rate. Ugh, so much........
For what it's worth: AL Smash = 140mm travel, 230x57.5 shock.
I run mine in "plush" setting cuz plush is what I like, but if I was headed someplace with lots of dropping & jumping, I'd consider flipping the chip to "crush" to see if doing so helps resist bottoming a bit better.
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The problem is different stroke length shocks have different leverage ratios and longer springs sit at a different compressed length on the coil. So, unless the AL Smash uses a 55mm stroke shock and has 130mm travel, it wont require the same rate coil unfortunately. I don't know much about the AL GG bikes as I didn't hear about them until 2019.

For instance, the revved Smash is 145mm travel with a 65mm stroke shock for a ratio of 4.48% and the revved Pistola is 130mm on a 55mm stroke shock for a ratio of 4.23%. You're also changing the ratio if you're running in plush vs crush which will also effect the required spring rate. Ugh, so much........
Thought the Smash was 60mm stroke?
 

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I heard a good tip for the 10% margin of error on spring rates while listening to a podcast (the path, to give credit). Use a weight of some sort to compress the spring, measure the compression. They said use a dial gauge, i think a caliper might work too. Compare compression distance between different springs to check if they are relatively correct when compared to each other.

i.e. a 500# spring that is 10% under would actually be 450. Or a 450 that is 10% over would be 495. With this test you could at least tell which spring is actually heavier in the real world. Of course, this will only work for comparing springs of the same length.
 

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What shock are you running? Based on what you're describing, I'd say a non-progressive/standard spring would be the ticket to keep the plush off-the-top feel and use more travel (you paid for it, might as well use it!). The Lithium ramps up pretty good on its own with the new CBF tune.

My Lithium is noticeably more progressive with a standard spring than my Balance was, but not so progressive that it's wallowy off the top and only uses half the travel (like some other frames I've ridden). No harsh bottom outs, but I definitely use full travel on hard hits/drops.

I'm in exactly the same boat, except that I'm 185# W/O gear on an AL Smash. So I'm even heavier on a 400# spring than @milehi and I wouldn't want any heavier spring.

Well, except maybe a 400-450# progressive spring. Which is what I'm running on my Canfield Lithium. It's dreamy - sooo plush on top yet I just can't seem to bottom the thing no matter how hard I try. Un-F-ing-believeable.

I can't deny the Smash is a bit easier to bottom @400# and my tonnage.
=sParty
 

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What shock are you running? Based on what you're describing, I'd say a non-progressive/standard spring would be the ticket to keep the plush off-the-top feel and use more travel (you paid for it, might as well use it!). The Lithium ramps up pretty good on its own with the new CBF tune.

My Lithium is noticeably more progressive with a standard spring than my Balance was, but not so progressive that it's wallowy off the top and only uses half the travel (like some other frames I've ridden). No harsh bottom outs, but I definitely use full travel on hard hits/drops.
I've got a GG Smash with an 11.6 shock w/400# spring and the Canfield Lithium with the progressive 400-450# spring. I like them both but I do bigger hits with the Lithium and I'm pretty happy with the way the progressive spring feels. I may actually bottom it from time to time -- can't say for sure -- but the travel is so deep, if/when I do, I'm not feeling it much.
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So, are most people running a linear spring on GG bikes? This Pistola feels a lot less progress than my RM Altitude did.
Going to have to look at each bike's progression individually in each setting. The TP here looks plenty progressive, except it only shows on graph, so it's unclear what setting it's in: Linkage Design

If you have two travel settings, you kind of run into the issue where you really should have two springs for it. The longer travel setting may be more progressive, but would also require a stiffer spring, so using the shorter travel spring may result in worse bottoming. But there are some other ways around this, run a little oversprung in the lower travel setting, an adjustable bottom out like EXT Arma, etc.

These are not drastic linear or falling rate frames, they really shouldn't need progressive coils, some of them are less progressive in their lower-travel setting, but that tends to not be where people are going to shred the hardest anyway.
 
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