Thought about bidding on that one and the yellow one as well. If you do only want it for the adapter I can give the frame a good homeairwreck said:96 Afterburner from ebay.
machined out rockers?
tempted to buy it just for the rear disc adaptor .
lots of help and tons of editing. doesnt hurt that ive been doin this turner thing for awhile. the idea is to provide a reference, answer some questions and keep a history of the bikes ive loved since the very early days. perhaps its also a tribute of sorts to a man i respect on many levels.nickhart said:wow cc how do you do it?
Given that the frame was somewhere between 4.5 and 5 lbs, and people are building 20 pound hardtails. I think with some effort, 22 lbs. is doable.cactuscorn said:im thinkin you could get 1 of those down to about 22 lbs if you were a small guy, without bein totally stupid. wadaya think?
cactuscorn said:turner timeline: 2008. i thought it high time to update my mini-turner timeline i 1st posted 6/14/06. so much for mini. i hope you find it more complete, accurate and helpful than before. ok kids, lets start with some history and details on the ever popular Turner Burner, the bike that eventually brought us all here:
Turner Suspension Bicycles was started by David Turner in Eagle, Colorado where he began designing and testing his own frames.
the birth of his 1st frame, a 1-off Horst Link soft tail. DT wins his dh class at Mamouth on it. work begins on the next frame and a few variable rate rocker driven prototypes are made and tested. no one seems all that excited about the rise and fall of the shock rate with riders complaining of harshness.
the 1st batch of 150 original production V-1 '95 Burners (Version 1), were made by Ventana Mountain Bikes in Rancho Cordova, California. many were raced by the top pros of the day yet you would be hard pressed to find a turner logo on those bikes since most riders were sponsored by other large bike companies and teams who purchased the frames from Turner, a practice carried on through the mid 2000's.
they were not known as the Turner Burner quite yet. that name came from a Mountain Bike Action magazine bike test in 10/94 and it stuck. it was actually 1st known as the FTF (Full Time Function). that moniker was prominently displayed in black caps on the shock stays but clever owners would break out a razor blade and change it to say things like "FULL TIME FUN" and "FULL ON FUN TIME".
these linear rate, fully active suspension frames were built from straight guadge Alcoa 6013 tubes, had a lower shock mount bridge from the down tube to the seat tube (similar to the current Flux and Sultan), 2.75" of travel via a black anno rocker with a white Turner logo and a Fox Alps air shock valved specifically for each frame size. cable routing was under the top tube. other features were a ball burnished finish, black Turner logo stickers, 73.5/71.5 geo, a 27.2 reducer sleeve welded atop the seat tube, 2 bolt replaceable derailleur hanger, a sivler cnc machined alloy seatpost qr and a welded canti mount on the shock stay yoke. they even came with a Fox shock pump.
all Turner frames, other than the post '97 dh frames and the Highline, use journal bearings (often called bushings) for incredible strength and surprising longevity with very little maintenance. a occasional shot of grease into the zerk fittings found on every Turner frame ever made is all you need to keep it quiet for up to 3 years depending on personal conditions.
Ventana could no longer keep up with the demand for Burners so fabrication then moved into the Tempe, Arizona shop of FTW (Frank the Welder) for a short time. as Burners kept getting built, a polished 3.6" rocker w/ a black logo was made for the d/h crowd, both rockers were a welded 3 piece unit. the FTW made DH rocker was a hard part to find at the time and as far as i know was not produced as a upgrade part after '95 but was seen on a few later models such as the Twin and Burner DH. a full moto plate welded to the toptube, downtube and headtube or a small gusset wrapped around the botom of the headtube to the downtube can be found on some old burners. these factory warranty mods were done to fix cracks that developed on frames that were bein raced in d/h events. of course these repaired frames were repainted and so began the now famous Turner customer service.
the V-2 Burner was produced for the '96 model year by Sportech in Corona, California and had a beautifuly machined bottom bracket section supporting the shock, b/bkt and swingarm. this was done to reduce weight and increase lateral stiffness as well as provide better allignment of the chassis, not to cure breakage as sometimes believed. the only serious breakage issue was in the headtube which was cured in '96 with a substantial box type gusset under the downtube and a stronger, internally machined headtube. cable routing was moved to the 2 o'clock position on the top tube. also seen was a 34.9 black anno seat post clamp and a black anno bolt-on cable stop atop the shock stay yoke. it was the year of the v brake afterall. the move to a 3 bolt replaceable derailleur hanger and 31.6 seatpost was made but a black anno 27.2 TNT Performance Products reducer was provided with every frame.
the classic Burner begins a long hiatus, at least by name alone, becomming the coil sprung Burner XC for 1 year followed by the somewhat similar O2. it wasnt seen again till '02 when it reappeared with lower standover, "Taco" gusset from the seattube to the top of the downtube, butted top and downtubes and a lighter, stiffer 2 piece "X" rocker like is so common with more current models through '06. after these upgrades, it went away again at the end of '04 and was replaced buy the '05 Flux. the end of 1 era and the beginning of another? time will tell. the '98's returned to a different 2 bolt replaceable derailleur hanger thats remained virtually unchanged since.
a short personal note on Horst Link vs. TNT: please save any further discussion for the many existing threads that cover this subject.
David Turner was there, working with Horst Lietner of AMP Research as a Mongoose test rider and pro xc stud when the Horst Link (HL) was 1st drawn up in '90 and continued to use it on all his 4 Bar frames even after the rights were sold to Specialized who then licensed it to all takers in '00. 5 years later, he licensed ICT (Instant Center Tracking) from Ellsworth Bicycles in order to (in short) continue to use the HL and a flat profile rocker.
in '06, Turner dropped the much touted HL that was used from the very beginning for TNT due to a growingly difficult licenseing agreement and the discovery of a way to design around it without any loss of performance, as agreed uppon by most riders who have tested both back-to-back. some will even say theres a improvement now that a pivot point between the swingarm and axle has been relocated to the shockstay. the move to TNT negated both the ICT and HL patents and freed Turner to return to doing things their own way on their own terms.
a short personal note on RFX versions. through it all the basic freeride intent of the frame remains the same but continues to expand and blur into new territory. theres been some argument on how many versions exist and where they fit into the timeline. my line of thinking, and this has been approved by DT, is that:
V-1: the original RFX is the V-1 as all things stayed basically the same until '00 when it got a full pound of beef added to the tubset making it the superman of bikes. besides this massive change in wall thickness it saw a few tweeks and a change of rockers. a early freeride sled but not a good climber for the meek to be honest. there are those who want the '00 - '02 RFX to have its own version in this timeline but so far im holding out for a bribe.
V-2: the V-2 RFX is the type made following the 6 Pack and the demise of the beloved Horst Link. here we see substantial geo changes, a shallower 6" rocker and a whole new tubeset for a more reasonable weight and improved ride just for starters. this is when it became a climber and a true all mountain rig.
V-3: along with the V-3 came not only more big changes in the geo, but in other big design departures such as leverage ratio, tubeset, girder rockers and reduced weight. these changes made it posible to build a sub 34 lb long travel bike capable of epic rides for almost anyone.
notable turners. my notes and those of so many others show this all to be accurate. anything im not pretty damn sure of has a "(?)" following the fact in question:
Original Turner - '93.
a short travel soft tail David Turner brought to mammoth for the classic kamikaze manufacturers d/h race and won with. only 1 made.
Burner (V-1) - '95.
a 2.75" xc trail and race bike that saw time in the early days of DH races with a 3.6" rocker option. possibly the 1st and arguably one of the few bikes that positively changed the full suspension bike world forever. maybe one of the most consistantly copied designs in modern bicycle history. speced with a 1.5 x 6.5 fox alps 4.
Burner (V-2) - '96 - '97.
a revised 2.75" xc trail and race bike very much like its predisessor but with machined bits and some needed headtube work. speced with a 1.5 x 6.5 fox alps 4R in '96 and a alps 5R in '97.
Twin - '97.
a 3.6” Burner tandam if you will. only 1 was made by sportech for DT. it now lives in the uk and is still ridden today.
Burner DH - '97.
3.6". a stepping stone to the afterburner. a big tubed Burner with a grotesquley tall headtube and kong sized moto plates.
Burner XC - '98.
new name for a old frame. still with 2.75 inches of rear wheel travel, the classic geo is retained for a single crown fork with 65-75mm of travel. we see a factory installed coil shock on a Buner for the 1st time as it comes speced with the new Fox Vanilla TC adding compression and rebound controls. another 1st is the option of bolt on disc or clamp on rim brake mounts on all '98 models. both adaptor styles are now very hard to find.
Burner XCE - '98 - '02.
the official factory 3.6" refinement of the classic Burner and a compliment to the newly renamed Burner XC. with relaxed geo, a single crown fork with 80-90mm of travel was reccomended. it was also speced with the Fox Vanilla TC. at 6.7 lbs, it was made much stronger than previous Burners and the Turner all mountain frame is born. in '99 it got a 4" "XR" rocker. this chassis stayed basically the same till its demise.
Stinger - '98 - '01.
2.8". i suppose you might say this is Davids take on the Mac Strut design. very stiff in the rear for a change, and super light for the day. a true xc race rig with butted tubes stellar american national event results. cancelled due to propriatary shock supply issues. way cool bike if ya ask me. speced with a fox air vanilla r pull shock.
Afterburner DH - '98 - '99.
a great 7" d/h bike with very sexy lines and a vast improvement over the previous Turner dh model in both asthetics and performance. good enough to win a silver at the worlds. this also introduced the fwd rocker pivot now standard on most Turners and needle bearings on dh frames.
RFX (V-1) - '98 - '99.
5" freeride frame for the masses. 7.7 lbs of fun, but most riders didnt want their friends to see them on it. sorry, wrong punchline. point being, it was a big fat brick of a frame that did it all.
O2 - '99 - '02.
a super light 5.6 lb, 3.1" version of the burner.
Javelin - '99.
7.6" dh bike designed to compete with France's very succesful steel tubed Sun bikes. Turner’s first single pivot suspension bike and one of the 1st ISCG frames on the market. this ultra boxy unit replaced the afterburner. its possible this was a team only design and never saw the open market. (more details needed on all these dh models. please contact me outside of this thread if ya care to share.)
RFX (V-1.1) - '00 - '02.
now speced with 6" rockers and beefed up by a full pound, this beast now weighs 8.7 lbs + and is considered to be semi unbreakable except for the hollowed out disc mount on the '00 model which was redesigned in '01 as a solid chunk of cnc'ed perfection. shut down due to low sales. 2 different sets of 5" and 6" rockers were made for the RFX over the years providing some geo tweeks. all 4 sets are now coveted by old school pureists and current owners seek them out. because theyre tough as a $2 steak, many still exist and are ridden hard to this day.
DHR - '00 (officially) - present.
originaly the Javelin, it too had 7.6", its official name was the DH Racer and has been massively refined through the years. now a 8.5" bike. somewhere in here fits the C-Note or so im told. (more details needed on all these dh models. please contact me outside of this thread if ya care to share.)
Burner (V-3) - '02 - '04.
she's baa-aaaack! lighter, stonger and better than ever to boot. now with the 2 piece 3.6" "X" rocker the XCE made famous, butted top and downtubes, IS disc mount and improved standover. if ya have one, look for a set of the semi-rare 4" "XR" rockers. ladies and gentlemen! please help me welcome the "Taco"!
5 Spot - '03 - present.
Turners best selling frame that many feel to be the perfect trail bike, has seen a variety of shocks and rockers over the years including the original 5.1", a 5.3" version in '05 and finally the latest 5.5" unit introduced in '07 was far lighter and stiffer with its wider and tapered girder like design. the '07 also had a slightly higher b/bkt. asymetrical chainstays followed later in the season.
Mauler - '03.
this one was tough to pin down but i think i pulled it off... kinda. its sorta like a light '02 RFX. Spot geo w/ a taller b/bkt, Spot rear w/ RFX yokes for tire clearence, 1.5" headtube, shallow rockers and easton tubes built for a single Fontana race course. ill let DT explain further: "the Mauler was a name lovingly given the frame by it's owner, as in the Fontana Mauler. there is ONLY ONE MAULER, that was it. Anodized Flame job on the frame." yet earlyer he says this: "It was custom for the original owner and myself. Mine was painted red, this one anodized. "DT continues: "The guy who owns the twin stopped by a month ago...". im confused but it sounds like there were 2, the red one and the namesake anno flame frame, both mediums. 1 pops up on ebay once in a great while.
Route 66 '03.
another tough one but ill tell ya what i found so far. as DT says: "A 66 is just a ('02) RFX (yeah, same geo but with lighter tubing and a 1.5" DHR headtube) another earlier attempt by me to dump the RFX moniker. I think a co worker back in the day, Jeff, came up with 66. His was one of the Large frames. There are only 4 of these, 2 medium, 2 large. The (medium) red powdercoated one was mine." again, another ebay find these days.
Six Pack - '04 - '05.
a 6" travel work horse, do it all frame. a climbable beast that has its rider salivating when someone says "Look! Another desent!" and a huckers delight. the model that started the "frankenbike" trend where rides started to swap odd sized shocks, rear end pices and rockers with the Spot and even older RFX's to alter geo creating "5 Packs", "7 Packs" and a single "SPaaNB" (Six Pack and a Nickle Bag). much love can still be found for this frame and seeing as how well made it is, that love will continue for a long time to come. exact same front triangle and rockers are shared with the '06 RFX but this is to be the final year of the 6" HL freeride Turner. so long old freind.
Rail - '04.
maybe best described as a 4.5" mini DHR w/ adjustable b/bkt height via a flip type shock mount and no place for a front derailluer. it looks like this was the 1st Turner 4X frame but at 9 lbs, now considered way to portly for competition. today, its a good fit for dirt jumping, BMX sessions and shuttle days on med/heavy trails as its a lousy climber w/ its DHR geo and tubeset.
C-Note - '04.
described as a "budget DHR" by one talented and experienced rider, rumor has it only 2 were built. very light compared to the DHR and other bikes of the time. no shock linkage on this 7" dh rig means adjustability of the rear ends feel was a issue.
Flux - '05 - present.
4"s of weeeeeeeee! the new burner? hardly! this more refined design with faster feeling yet more confidence inspiering geometry really opened the door to more aggressive trail riding in a medium travel rig. lighter too! in '06 the entire line moved to the TNT rear tri otherwise the Flux remained consistant till '08 when it too saw a new asym chainstay and a much lighter, stiffer shockstay yoke patterned after the Nitrous as well as the updated girder style rocker. daily xc, trail, xc/endurance race and epic ride fun found here.
Nitrous - '05 - '07.
3" full on pro level xc race bike with a 165 pound rider weight limit. Geoff Kabush wins 5 NORBA championships and sets a single season win record, all within 3 years, riding this frame so that should tell you something. skinny assed and heavily dedicated xc racers only need apply. a land based rocketship without the rockets. skin suit not included. no changes other than TNT in '06. recently cancelled due to failing sales and a weak xc race bike market.
RFX V-2 - '06.
originally called the Six Pack for 2 years previous, then rebadged as the reborn RFX after the TNT rear was instituted in this model year. no other changes were made and all parts are compatable with previous Spot, Six Pack and RFX models.
Highline - '06 - present.
originally speced with 8" of travel, reduced to 7.1" mid year '07 for a lower b/bkt height and improved handeling. the new mega huck platform built for and tested by folks who go huge. really, really huge. now, after a few years and some chainstay/seatstay teething problems, the design has been refined into a reliable chassis that is 1 of the top contenders when looking for a big huck, freeride park and mega-tech-trail sled thats said to climb like "a spider monkey getting a fire ant and Tabasco enema." at least most agree its a dandy freeride bike.
RFX (V-3) - '07 - present.
in '07, it went through a massive redesign and now has 6.4" of plush travel, a lower leverage ratio much to our delight, shorter cockpit, is far lighter and it introduced those sexy asymetrical stays and girder style rockers. the 1st Turner of its kind to see the sub 34 lb build mark and live to tell about it. 30 - 33 lbs is common. all day xc/trail/am epics and hucks... heres yer ride. the only question left is will it replace the most excellent Spot as the king of the do-it-all Turners?
Sultan - '07 - present.
turner embraces the 29'er movement with this 4" ripper and the celebrations begin immediately. due to it's instant success and low availability, Sultan zelots instead build and occupy towers made in its honor keeping all out besides those who ride the proper horse. virtually anyone who's owned one say this is some of the finest work turner has done yet, and consiquentually, sold their Spots.
4X - '07 (officialy) - present.
although a handfull were built prior to '07 for team riders, the Turner 4" travel 4X is a VERY limited production mountaincross race frame in very limited sizes normally available on special order only. all these "Factory Frankenbikes", as DT calls em, are built from Spot and RFX tubes, some stock parts, and some custom parts, even a few cutomized stock parts. look close and you will see several differences in lower shock mount as well as lower main pivot locations.
theres a few models like the DHR, Lucky 7, Javilin and C-Note that i dont have many details on and the few i do have are sketchy so a little help would be cool. pm me and ill fix it up.
who built my turner? this should answer yer basic questions. over time i may add to this with some detailed info on each:
'94 ----------------- Ventana built the 1st 150 turner's, later to be dubbed the burner my mountain bike action. quality work spured growing sales leading to a new vendor.Additional notes:
'95 ------------------ FTW (frank the welder). frank waddington, one of the first big named welders for hire in the industry, welded the early barracuda's, yeti's and turners's.
'96 - '02 ----------- Sportech took the burner and its offspring to new levels of performance, quality and innovation with features like the machined b/bkt assembly.
'03 - present --- SAPA now makes the entire line with in house tubesets and others comming from different vendors depending on the model, all from the usa.
Olympic Powdercoating of Santa Ana, California does all the paint work and has for years. for just how long, i dunno. not sure who did/does the anno/coating work on things such as the older anno frames and parts or the new style girder rockers.
'92 - DT begins designing frames under his own name.
'93 - DT wins the Mannoth Mountain Kamikaze manufacturers dh race on 1 of his own soft tail bike designs.
'94 - Several top dh pros ride restickered Turner 4 bar linkage FTF bikes in National competition. Production begins and the Burner gets tested and named in MBA with rave reviews.
'95 - The 1st 150 Burners are sold out. Production is moved to FTW. 2 bolt derailluer hanger and ball burnished finish w/ black stickers.
'96 - The Burner gets its 1st makeover; a machined b/bkt assembly, stronger headtube/gusset, removable cable stop and 31.6 mm I.D. seat tube.
'97 - Turner up's the line to 2 frames and releases the Burner DH which Kona's Thomas Misser wins several World Cup races on then places 3rd in the Finals. Kona is allowed to buy frames, paint them gold and sell them as Kona Misser Replicas. the rest of us get ball burnished, red and black color options w/ 2 tone stickers. The derailluer hanger is redesigned to a 3 bolt.
'98 - 5 frames are now made: the Burner XC and XCE, Stinger, RFX and Afterburner DH. welded on canti mounts are history and customers are given the option of a bolt on disc brake adaptor or the beautiful clamp on rim brake mounts on all models. The derailluer hanger returns to a 2 bolt design. Color Options: Ball Burnished, Semi-Gloss Black, Gloss Black, Candy Blue, Metallic Gray, Dark Metallic Green, Candy Red and Yellow. Frame stickers available in Black, White, Red, Yellow, Chrome, Blue and Orange. For a nominal up charge, they offer anodized finished frames in blue, black, green and pewter. The rear ends are always polished and the rockers are always black. The derailluer hanger is redesigned to a 2 bolt version with a new bolt pattern that remains today. they are not compatable with the original 2 bolt from '04 - '06.
'99 - The Burner XC is dropped and the lighter O2 is introduced in its place. Turner moves to Murrietta, California and sells complete bikes with XT and XTR build kit options. Colors: Bright Red, Gloss Black, Spring Yellow, Sid Blue, Cobalt Blue, Polished, Custom.
'00 - Colors: Gloss Black, Semi Gloss Black, Blood Red, Bright Yellow, Indigo Blue, Candy Blue, Forest Green Metallic, Charcoal Grey Metallic, Double Polished, Custom.
'01 - Color Options: Ball Burnished, Semi-Gloss Black, Gloss Black, Candy Blue, Metallic Gray, Dark Metallic Green, Candy Red and Yellow. Frame stickers available in Black, White, Red, Yellow, Chrome, Blue and Orange. Anodized frames in blue, black, green and pewter.
'02 - The Burner awakes after 3 years in a coma but the RFX is starting to sleep alot, slipping into its own long dream by years end. Turner web site opens its Goody Store and starts a Turner of the Month photo contest.
'03 - The 5 Spot is born and sales of this baby and its limbs have gone through the roof ever since.
'04 - Last year of the Burner. Several are sold at Supergo bike shops later in the year and into '05 for as little as $600 until gone. Paul Components makes a aftermarket XR rocker. Turner releases the 6 Pack; riders climb the highest mountains looking for one and regularly ride a loop back to the top once a frame is found. This is the last year of stock painted rears.
'05 - The Flux replaces the Burner. Polished clear anno is offered on select models. ICT is licensed 7/13/05 and the little green stickers start showing up mid season but seem to fall off soon after the frames are purchased. Turner caves to customer pressure and redesigns the derailleur hanger after complaints that it bends too easily. they begin to snap instead.
'06 - TNT replaces HL, customers and the industry are shocked. Turner moves to a stock anno finish on all models other than the DHR. The 6 Pack is renamed RFX. The Highline is offered late in the year but a mix up of tubes at SAPA forces a recall of all V-1 rear triangles, These are replaced with the V-2.
'07 - The Highline hits production full stide yet V-2 rears continue to fail due to improper heat treating. These are again recalled, redesigned, replaced with the V-3 and the failures stop. More late season production woes as the anno proccess literally eats frames causing huge delivery delays for the '07's. Anno is scrapped for powdercoat and frames hit stores mid year. After years of begging customers, Turner offers a 4" 29'er and the Sultan is a instant industry hit. The DHR gets round tubes and a 7 lb RFX is offered. Push Industries offers a 5.75" rocker for the Spot and the Sultan crew soon discovers its compatability. after 2 years of brittle derailleur hangers, Turner again redesigns it with a rounded corner rather than the sharp point at the end of the step and the breakage stops. riders rejoice.
'08 - Sadly, the Nitrous is canceled; hot shoe flyweight XC racers are left homeless.
Nice storyschmed said:My '97 Burner. Had been looking for one for a long time. Stopped in a bike shop in San Diego asking the owner if he ever comes across used Turners and he says... um.. I thought there was one for sale on the bulletin board, but I just cleaned off the old ads. Let me check...
He un-crumples a piece of paper out of the trash, and there's my bike. Silver Turner Burner with spinergy wheels. That was "The one"! I called the seller - he still had it, so I bought it right there.
Flite saddle, Onza pedals, Judy SL fork, bar ends, Kore stem. Rockin'.
a few more i dug up and scanned now that alls workin as it should. thanx to airwreck and gregg at MTBR for the help.
# 1: me and "Ultra Man" at big bear '99
# 2: in the trees at big bear test and tune day '99
# 3: Turner sponsored Jr racer big bear amature cup '00 i think
# 3: Turner sponsored Sr racer big bear amature cup '00
# 4: same guy, a moment later in the same corner. dont know who. a little help DT?