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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Choosing a wheel set is turning out harder than I thought. I think I’m leaning towards a Dave’s Speed dream build with Stans 355 or arches (depending on Dave’s recommendation) and CK or DT hubs.

I’m sure I can’t go wrong with either of these. Both seem to have their advantages. This is what I came up with so far:

Both have:
15mm fronts and 10mm thru rears
Serviceable with special tools

DT Swiss +s
Weight
Rolling resistance
Sealing

CK +s
POE (72 vs. 36 with DTs new ratchet)
Durability? Steel cassette body is available
Warranty

I’m an intermediate rider in the 170 lb range. These are going on my ‘06 Epic for cross country use. But being in Northern, NJ there are some huge climbs I do. That is where the DT’s weight and rolling resistance attract me. I’m also starting to ride more technical terrain. That is where the CK would have an advantage with faster engagement (I think)… Also things can get soupy here sometimes. Mud and rain can sometimes cover the bike.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Again, I doing think I can go wrong with either choice, But I’d like to pick the best tool for my riding type.

THANKS!!!!
 

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I agree, you can't go wrong with either choice. I am two weeks in on a DT Swiss 240s/Stan's Arch build. The set is light (1600gr.), stiff and they spin forever. I installed the 36 tooth star ratchet in about 2 minutes.

Coming from I9's, I can say that while the engagement is slower, it's quick enough to make no real world difference.
 

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Nickbee said:
Choosing a wheel set is turning out harder than I thought. I think I'm leaning towards a Dave's Speed dream build with Stans 355 or arches (depending on Dave's recommendation) and CK or DT hubs.

I'm sure I can't go wrong with either of these. Both seem to have their advantages. This is what I came up with so far:

Both have:
15mm fronts and 10mm thru rears
Serviceable with special tools

DT Swiss +s
Weight
Rolling resistance
Sealing

CK +s
POE (72 vs. 36 with DTs new ratchet)
Durability? Steel cassette body is available
Warranty

I'm an intermediate rider in the 170 lb range. These are going on my '06 Epic for cross country use. But being in Northern, NJ there are some huge climbs I do. That is where the DT's weight and rolling resistance attract me. I'm also starting to ride more technical terrain. That is where the CK would have an advantage with faster engagement (I think)… Also things can get soupy here sometimes. Mud and rain can sometimes cover the bike.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Again, I doing think I can go wrong with either choice, But I'd like to pick the best tool for my riding type.

THANKS!!!!
Both good choices. I seriously doubt there's any real-world difference in performance due to the weight or rolling resistance. The CK's should have better sealing (thus the slower rolling). I prefer the engagement and durability of the CK's personally.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
MightySchmoePong said:
Both good choices. I seriously doubt there's any real-world difference in performance due to the weight or rolling resistance. The CK's should have better sealing (thus the slower rolling). I prefer the engagement and durability of the CK's personally.
It was my understanding that the CK seal was not the best. And that leads to having to do more maintenance more often? I in this video that DT uses some kind of mechanical seal so it does not impede how it rolls.


Yes that hub is the 190, I think it is the same as the 240s but with ceramic bearings and some more machining to lighten things up (Too bad the are so damn expensive)...
 

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Nickbee said:
It was my understanding that the CK seal was not the best. And that leads to having to do more maintenance more often? I in this video that DT uses some kind of mechanical seal so it does not impede how it rolls.


Yes that hub is the 190, I think it is the same as the 240s but with ceramic bearings and some more machining to lighten things up (Too bad the are so damn expensive)...
I wouldn't agree with that. The King's are sealed better than the 240's in my experience.

Larry
www.mtnhighcyclery.com
 

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I ride both, If you are concerned about weight go with the 240's. I actually used to think Kings were the only way to go but have found after thousands of miles I like them equally. You can't go wrong with either brand.

If I was going to pay the SAME price for either hub, I would definitely go for the Kings they have ALOT better resale value, If that is a concern.

The 240's might just roll a tad better and are more pleasant to listen to after a few hours or so.

For road wheels I would 100% go with 240's even if cost was the same.

I am only considering the rear hubs in this discussion because the front hubs are so negligible.
 

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I wrestled with the same decision a year ago. Dave built up 240's and 355 rims. By far the best purchase and upgrade made to my anthem. I was concerned about durability at first, no more the damn things are bombproof. Oh did I mention they came in at 1465 grams. Highly recommend Dave.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
cfranck said:
I wrestled with the same decision a year ago. Dave built up 240's and 355 rims. By far the best purchase and upgrade made to my anthem. I was concerned about durability at first, no more the damn things are bombproof. Oh did I mention they came in at 1465 grams. Highly recommend Dave.
Thanks for the feedback. I am leaning towards something similar... How much do you weigh and what kind of riding do you do?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
ok, so do you see rocky downhills in the bay area? Being across the country in NJ I have no clue. I can sometimes find downhills with baby heads here. And being that I'm an intermediate rider I sometimes hit one or two (or ten) on the way down. That's why I have concern about using a ZTR355. But I've read about Dave's black magic. And I can understand how a properly built wheel will withstand more abuse.

Thanks again for the feedback...
 

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Not many rock gardend on my daily rides, very rocky for the trips to Tahoe. If weight is not the primary concern go with King/Arch, if it is then go with 240/355. You can't go wrong with either choice.
 

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Don't forget flange geometry. The King rear hub has more even spoke tension (L/R) due to this. It's one of the very few weak points of the DT 190/240 rear hub.

rapsaC
 

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I'm going to throw my vote in for Larry at mtnhighcyclery.com and a build with the Kings. Once you see the Kings in person, you'll know why. They are nearly works of art. Very nice aesthetically and they will give you very little trouble in wet muddy conditions. I'm on my second set from Larry and his build, prices, and customer service is great. I don't use King headsets or bottom brackets, but their hub design and production is world class!
 

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I have many years on both sets if hubs. I ride in very severe conditions of mud, rain, slush, snow, etc in coastal Alaska.

The Kings have better seals, no question. Most of the DT bearings are very well sealed, but the interface between the freehub and the hub body itself is the DT's Achilles heel. The star ratchet area gets contaminated faster than the King's ring drive. I dare say there is no better sealed hub on the market than the Kings.

If sealing is not your primary concern (as most folks don't ride in tons of muck), then the DTs are very competative. Lighter, less seal drag, extremely smooth (then again, so are Kings), and the new higher engagement ratchets remove one of the remaining drawbacks to the DTs. I prefer the DT's extreme cold weather performance, and the coasting chain sag can be an issue with new or poorly adjusted Kings.

The King tools are a thing of unsurpassed beauty and function. The DT tools cost MORE and are plastic tire levers by comparison, if that matters to you.

If I were building a racing or light/performance wheelset, I would get the DTs. If it were my everyday crappy-conditions set and I wanted a real long-term investment, then the Kings would be my pick. In fact, they are. We have 7 King wheelsets.
 

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Agree with Ibis. Give Dave a call. Nor Cal is pretty wet and mucky, might give the CK's the nod as a result.

That said, I went with Dave's suggestions... DT Swiss 240S, with stainless steel bearings, Sapim 14/15/14 gauge SS spokes, and Stans Flow 29'ers. My concern was was ease of serviceablity, the star ratchet system is no tools, jut press the cassette/carrier off by hand, get in there and clean it up, and regrease. 5 minute job. Major plus factor, from my point of view, no need to pull the cassette or disc rotors to get special tools in there.
 

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DT hubs don't require any tools for basic maintenance and do not require any adjustment like kings do. But kings are beautiful and very nice to ride.

Cheers,

P.
 

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pongee said:
DT hubs don't require any tools for basic maintenance and do not require any adjustment like kings do. But kings are beautiful and very nice to ride.

Cheers,

P.
So do the bearings just fall out when you pull the axle of a 240?:eek: :eek::thumbsup: King requires either a 3mm to unlock the collar or two 5mm to remove the classic axle to do basic service. The special comes into play when you want to do a complete Bearing & Ring Drive service.

+2 for Larry at MH
 
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